Real Source of Republican Ire?

I just read this op-ed piece in the NY Times. This is the last half of it, from Frank Rich. I think his assessment of the extreme vitriol coming from the far right, coupled with the GOP’s failure to forcibly address and denounce it, is pretty interesting. Given that there is some racist-fueled rhetoric being spewed at these Tea Party gatherings, perhaps Mr. Rich has a valid point here. Or does he? Thoughts?

If Obamaâ??s first legislative priority had been immigration or financial reform or climate change, we would have seen the same trajectory. The conjunction of a black president and a female speaker of the House â?? topped off by a wise Latina on the Supreme Court and a powerful gay Congressional committee chairman â?? would sow fears of disenfranchisement among a dwindling and threatened minority in the country no matter what policies were in play. Itâ??s not happenstance that Frank, Lewis and Cleaver â?? none of them major Democratic players in the health care push â?? received a major share of last weekendâ??s abuse. When you hear demonstrators chant the slogan â??Take our country back!,â?? these are the people they want to take the country back from.

They canâ??t. Demographics are avatars of a change bigger than any bill contemplated by Obama or Congress. The week before the health care vote, The Times reported that births to Asian, black and Hispanic women accounted for 48 percent of all births in America in the 12 months ending in July 2008. By 2012, the next presidential election year, non-Hispanic white births will be in the minority. The Tea Party movement is virtually all white. The Republicans havenâ??t had a single African-American in the Senate or the House since 2003 and have had only three in total since 1935. Their anxieties about a rapidly changing America are well-grounded.

If Congressional Republicans want to maintain a politburo-like homogeneity in opposition to the Democrats, thatâ??s their right. If they want to replay the petulant Gingrich government shutdown of 1995 by boycotting hearings and, as John McCain has vowed, refusing to cooperate on any legislation, thatâ??s their right too (and a political gift to the Democrats). But they canâ??t emulate the 1995 G.O.P. by remaining silent as mass hysteria, some of it encompassing armed militias, runs amok in their own precincts. We know the end of that story. And they canâ??t pretend that weâ??re talking about â??isolated incidentsâ?? or a â??fringeâ?? utterly divorced from the G.O.P. A Quinnipiac poll last week found that 74 percent of Tea Party members identify themselves as Republicans or Republican-leaning independents, while only 16 percent are aligned with Democrats.

After the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, some responsible leaders in both parties spoke out to try to put a lid on the resistance and violence. The arch-segregationist Russell of Georgia, concerned about what might happen in his own backyard, declared flatly that the law is â??now on the books.â?? Yet no Republican or conservative leader of stature has taken on Palin, Perry, Boehner or any of the others who have been stoking these fires for a good 17 months now. Last week McCain even endorsed Palinâ??s â??reloadâ?? rhetoric.

Are these politicians so frightened of offending anyone in the Tea Party-Glenn Beck base that they would rather fall silent than call out its extremist elements and their enablers? Seemingly so, and if G.O.P. leaders of all stripes, from Romney to Mitch McConnell to Olympia Snowe to Lindsey Graham, are afraid of these forces, thatâ??s the strongest possible indicator that the rest of us have reason to fear them too.

â?¢

Why do I do this to myself?

!, there is zero evidence beyond the word of some politicians with very strong motives that most of these things occurred at all. Maybe they did, maybe not, but with mountains of video it’s almost inconceivable everybody missed it.

2, there is zero evidence that the tea party propounds any of the things alleged to have occurred by their… “members”.

3, that said, it is also almost inconceivable that in large groups pushing ANY cause there won’t be SOME bad specimens so some of this probably has happened somewhere and probably will again.

4, at this late date the GOP owes nobody a one millionth denunciation of racism and abusive hateful behavior.

5, when the left formally denounce the threats of outright murder and butchery aimed at GWB when he was in office, they might be in a position to demand the same from the republicans.

Rich is a typical media elite who basks in the illusion of his own brilliance. There is plenty to fear from unbalanced nuts all over the spectrum, but at this point all this attention to the tea party folks is pure undiluted political prejudice. The movement and it’s stated goals are unrelated to race in any way.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Why do I do this to myself?

!, there is zero evidence beyond the word of some politicians with very strong motives that most of these things occurred at all. Maybe they did, maybe not, but with mountains of video it’s almost inconceivable everybody missed it.

2, there is zero evidence that the tea party propounds any of the things alleged to have occurred by their… “members”.

3, that said, it is also almost inconceivable that in large groups pushing ANY cause there won’t be SOME bad specimens so some of this probably has happened somewhere and probably will again.

4, at this late date the GOP owes nobody a one millionth denunciation of racism and abusive hateful behavior.

5, when the left formally denounce the threats of outright murder and butchery aimed at GWB when he was in office, they might be in a position to demand the same from the republicans.

Rich is a typical media elite who basks in the illusion of his own brilliance. There is plenty to fear from unbalanced nuts all over the spectrum, but at this point all this attention to the tea party folks is pure undiluted political prejudice. The movement and it’s stated goals are unrelated to race in any way.[/quote]

Trib, I think if we keep responding to the 3 year olds they will keep pointing out the obvious and dragging us into explaining it. I know it makes your blood boil that people can’t focus on the second most important point in american history, the point where the government has lulled enough people to sleep and given them enough “stuff” that half the people are willing to let america die, all while the other half awakens out of a century long hibernation. Instead of focusing on the left and right power grabs, the shredding of the constitution, the massive increases in size, people want to bring up ad nauseum that not every single person who is against the growth of the federal government is a perfect model US Citizen. Therefore the entire movement must be (insert any of the bad things they bring up, racist, homophobic, etc…)

V

DBCooper, why haven’t you denounced the killing, rape, and torture of millions of Christians by Muslims in sub-Saharan Africa yet? Your continued failure to do so is an affront to basic human dignity and reveals exactly where you stand on the issue of Muslims slaughtering Christians. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You see what I just did? I associated you with a crime which may or may not have occurred. I then implied that you have the power to stop it, that the fact that you have not means that you agree with it, and that you therefore are in league with Christian-killing Muslims. You may even have denounced this very thing (as the GOP has with violent outbursts over health care), but I’m not going to admit that. It’s an old propaganda trick, and I’m amazed that anyone is dumb enough to let it work.

I think the article is right on.

I think it’s funny that the folks in support of this are usually so anti-PC… but in this case, they appear to be embarrassed by their cohorts un-PC behavior… probably because it de-legitimizes the movement. But we’ve all seen what the movement looks like, we’ve seen it on Fox ad nauseum, we’ve seen it in DC, we’ve seen it in our own towns and state capitols. We’ve seen who shows up to these Tea Party rallies, and what their signs say.

I really don’t understand why y’all act like if you keep telling us the Tea Party is about something else, we’re going to magically start believing it.

The “Original” modern Tea Party (Ron Paul style) got co-opted by the Dick Armys, and scared white-folk of the US. All the more power to you guys if you can take the Tea Party movement back. But right now, I think that article describes it pretty well. And to pretend it’s not just mostly Republicans trying to distance themselves from the Bush legacy of massive spending and massive debt is also disingenuous. It’s just when British Pretolium became the kinder, gentler, more responsible BP (Beyond Petroleum).

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
I think the article is right on.

I think it’s funny that the folks in support of this are usually so anti-PC… but in this case, they appear to be embarrassed by their cohorts un-PC behavior… probably because it de-legitimizes the movement. But we’ve all seen what the movement looks like, we’ve seen it on Fox ad nauseum, we’ve seen it in DC, we’ve seen it in our own towns and state capitols. We’ve seen who shows up to these Tea Party rallies, and what their signs say.

I really don’t understand why y’all act like if you keep telling us the Tea Party is about something else, we’re going to magically start believing it.

The “Original” modern Tea Party (Ron Paul style) got co-opted by the Dick Armys, and scared white-folk of the US. All the more power to you guys if you can take the Tea Party movement back. But right now, I think that article describes it pretty well. And to pretend it’s not just mostly Republicans trying to distance themselves from the Bush legacy of massive spending and massive debt is also disingenuous. It’s just when British Pretolium became the kinder, gentler, more responsible BP (Beyond Petroleum).[/quote]

So are we all racist or are we not? What are you claiming? Is our movement about what the media chooses to cover, or is it about the topic of the local meetings and the forums and the basic principles which unify us?

V

Did these people awaken after two foreign wars were started? Did these people awaken after TARP? No they awoke after things changed in a way they couldn’t tolerate.

[quote]Vegita wrote:

So are we all racist or are we not? What are you claiming? Is our movement about what the media chooses to cover, or is it about the topic of the local meetings and the forums and the basic principles which unify us?

V[/quote]

Needn’t all be racist to participate in a highly racist movement. There are gays in the Republican party because they want low taxes. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Republican party has enumerated an anti-gay-rights position.

So you might be part of this movement because you believe the issues you have in common with them are enough to want to associate with the movement, and you don’t mind the toxic racism brought along with it.

And stop blaming the media. Are you seriously saying Fox’s coverage of the movement is negatively biased?

And are you really going to discount all of our first-person encounters with protesters in DC, state capitols, and our own cities? They have little meetings and marches here too ya know.

Even the stuff members of the Tea Party movement put out themselves (pamphlets, “documentaries”, exe.) often wreak of racism and fear.

[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Did these people awaken after two foreign wars were started? Did these people awaken after TARP? No they awoke after things changed in a way they couldn’t tolerate. [/quote]

Excuse me? The tea party started with the Ron Paul primary Campaign in 08, which is when I “awoke” some people take more prodding but your above statement is flat out false.

V

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
I think the article is right on.

I think it’s funny that the folks in support of this are usually so anti-PC… but in this case, they appear to be embarrassed by their cohorts un-PC behavior… probably because it de-legitimizes the movement. But we’ve all seen what the movement looks like, we’ve seen it on Fox ad nauseum, we’ve seen it in DC, we’ve seen it in our own towns and state capitols. We’ve seen who shows up to these Tea Party rallies, and what their signs say.

I really don’t understand why y’all act like if you keep telling us the Tea Party is about something else, we’re going to magically start believing it.

[/quote]

Please provide evidence that racism is anything but a fringe element in the Tea Party. If you can’t provide it, apologize for the outrageous accusation and shut the fuck up.

While your’re at it, please provide evidence of racism in DC. I was there - you weren’t. I saw many black, asian, hispanic people. My girlfriend - who was with me - is Indian. They were extremely happy to be there and just as much as part of those glorious few days as anyone else; everyone was warmly welcomed.

So where the fuck do you get off calling the movement racist?

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Did these people awaken after two foreign wars were started? Did these people awaken after TARP? No they awoke after things changed in a way they couldn’t tolerate. [/quote]

Excuse me? The tea party started with the Ron Paul primary Campaign in 08, which is when I “awoke” some people take more prodding but your above statement is flat out false.

V[/quote]

You can’t tell me with a straight face that the current Tea Party Movement is anything like what Ron Paul was after. Hell, the new Tea Partiers are running primaries against Paul.

[quote]thefederalist wrote:
Did these people awaken after two foreign wars were started? Did these people awaken after TARP? No they awoke after things changed in a way they couldn’t tolerate. [/quote]

Actually the answer is yes to those questions. There is a reason for the existence of the phrase “the straw that broke the camels back”. Seeing outrage over this vs. what was seen over things like TARP does not in any way prove motivation.

Why is it that colonists only revolted once a tax on tea was issued? Was it because they were okay with the other taxes, but had special feelings about tea? No. It just happened to be the final straw.

You have to realize that outrage like we are seeing is built over years and years. Your argument is logically flawed.

I find it funny that the percentage of Tea Party Democrats coinsides with the percentage of Democrats that voted against ObamaCare. 17-18%. These are votes that the Left can not afford to dismiss, and they are going to figure that out in November. The demonizing of George W Bush is not work anymore so Obama’s administration has to find a new demon. Why are the Russians not Demons?

They would not shake Obama’s hand. A majority of Americans did not want the Bill, but the Democrats voted it in anyway, and now the Democrats are the victims? Poor little Obama, people are no longer liking you or your lies.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Please provide evidence that racism is anything but a fringe and unrelated element in the Tea Party. If you can’t provide it, apologize for the outrageous accusation and shut the fuck up.

While your’re at it, please provide evidence of racism in DC. I was there - you weren’t. I saw many black, asian, hispanic people. My girlfriend - who was with me - is Indian. They were extremely happy to be there and just as much as part of those glorious few days as anyone else; everyone was warmly welcomed.

So where the fuck do you get off calling the movement racist?

[/quote]

So how many interviews with Tea Partiers would I have to post, and how many pictures of racists signs would I need to put up, and how many of those racist emails I get from all the mailing lists I’m on would I need to link to get you on board with this? Hundreds? Thousands? Thousands of people is still a fringe, isn’t it?

I’m glad you saw some blacks and Asians. I’m sure it was an enlightening experience. But if I had taken 100 random pictures that day, 95 our of 100 of them, would have been all pissed off white people.

Again, there are gays in the Republican party. Doesn’t make the Republican party any less homophobic in their stated policy. But parties tend to rarely be one issue.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

So are we all racist or are we not? What are you claiming? Is our movement about what the media chooses to cover, or is it about the topic of the local meetings and the forums and the basic principles which unify us?

V[/quote]

Needn’t all be racist to participate in a highly racist movement. There are gays in the Republican party because they want low taxes. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Republican party has enumerated an anti-gay-rights position.

So you might be part of this movement because you believe the issues you have in common with them are enough to want to associate with the movement, and you don’t mind the toxic racism brought along with it.

And stop blaming the media. Are you seriously saying Fox’s coverage of the movement is negatively biased?

And are you really going to discount all of our first-person encounters with protesters in DC, state capitols, and our own cities? They have little meetings and marches here too ya know.

Even the stuff members of the Tea Party movement put out themselves (pamphlets, “documentaries”, exe.) often wreak of racism and fear.[/quote]

Fox news barred Ron Paul from the republican primary debate held on thier station. Yes I think they will show the tea party in any negative light they can. Even though Fox will go along with true consrvatism if it HAS to, it will kick and scream the whole way and it will attempt to keep the neo-con platform at the forefront of the republican party. You have now claimed a few things where the Movement itself has a racist tone or objective, yet you have provided no proof. Individual acts of some random racists who share views about the size of the government with non-racist people, does not make the movement racist. It just isn’t about that, it is 100% pure and simple, about the size of the federal government and the scope of it’s power. To say it is about anything other than that is pure retardism.

Here is why people like you, need the tea party to be about racism and not about the size of the federal government. YOU want a larger government, you want endless safety nets, you need the tea party to fail because it may one day succeed in reducing the size of the federal government and the entitlement programs that go along with it. If this happens you will be all alone, left to you and possibly your extended family to succeed or fail. If you fail under our system, there may not be a helping hand (at least one from the government) to pull you up. Associating the extreme ideas of a few individuals to the entire group, and oh now, the reason for the movement itself (LOL) is a great way to get people to reject the movement. Unfortunately, it’s only going to get retards to reject the movement because people who can think for themselves (the people we want anyways) will know that the acts of a few do not make the acts of the whole irrelivant, or any less worthwile. So, you guys can keep posting these racist t-party articles, and we can keep telling you your full of shit, and at the end of the day, good people will have still joined our cause.

V

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Please provide evidence that racism is anything but a fringe and unrelated element in the Tea Party. If you can’t provide it, apologize for the outrageous accusation and shut the fuck up.

While your’re at it, please provide evidence of racism in DC. I was there - you weren’t. I saw many black, asian, hispanic people. My girlfriend - who was with me - is Indian. They were extremely happy to be there and just as much as part of those glorious few days as anyone else; everyone was warmly welcomed.

So where the fuck do you get off calling the movement racist?

[/quote]

So how many interviews with Tea Partiers would I have to post, and how many pictures of racists signs would I need to put up, and how many of those racist emails I get from all the mailing lists I’m on would I need to link to get you on board with this? Hundreds? Thousands? Thousands of people is still a fringe, isn’t it?

I’m glad you saw some blacks and Asians. I’m sure it was an enlightening experience. But if I had taken 100 random pictures that day, 95 our of 100 of them, would have been all pissed off white people.

Again, there are gays in the Republican party. Doesn’t make the Republican party any less homophobic in their stated policy. But parties tend to rarely be one issue.[/quote]

Were you there? If not then STFU, seriously, your agenda is not even semi-hidden. Your words are just words unless they are backed up by EVIDENCE. Oh and the “I have too much evidence, so I just won’t post any of it” line is fucking classic.

V

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Please provide evidence that racism is anything but a fringe and unrelated element in the Tea Party. If you can’t provide it, apologize for the outrageous accusation and shut the fuck up.

While your’re at it, please provide evidence of racism in DC. I was there - you weren’t. I saw many black, asian, hispanic people. My girlfriend - who was with me - is Indian. They were extremely happy to be there and just as much as part of those glorious few days as anyone else; everyone was warmly welcomed.

So where the fuck do you get off calling the movement racist?

[/quote]

So how many interviews with Tea Partiers would I have to post, and how many pictures of racists signs would I need to put up, and how many of those racist emails I get from all the mailing lists I’m on would I need to link to get you on board with this? Hundreds? Thousands? Thousands of people is still a fringe, isn’t it?

I’m glad you saw some blacks and Asians. I’m sure it was an enlightening experience. But if I had taken 100 random pictures that day, 95 our of 100 of them, would have been all pissed off white people.

Again, there are gays in the Republican party. Doesn’t make the Republican party any less homophobic in their stated policy. But parties tend to rarely be one issue.[/quote]

A few signs and a few well-chosen edited interviews doesn’t mean shit. I don’t care if you provide hundreds.

If you knew anything about the Tea Party - and had spent even a few hours among them - you would realize how silly this accusation really is; it is a very large movement and it is driven by noble ideas and intentions (maybe that’s what gets the left so raging angry about it - ironically, that’s where the anger REALLY IS.)

The fact that you’re buying into it only proves how powerful the legacy media is in (misin)forming opinions; and, perhaps, that you simply wish it to be true (why??)

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Were you there? If not then STFU, seriously, your agenda is not even semi-hidden. Your words are just words unless they are backed up by EVIDENCE. Oh and the “I have too much evidence, so I just won’t post any of it” line is fucking classic.

V[/quote]

I asked a question, I’m waiting for an answer.

But you and I know that anything I could post or share on an internet board could be dismissed as “fringe”. I mean, you can only load on pic at a time per post.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

A few signs and a few well-chosen edited interviews doesn’t mean shit. I don’t care if you provide hundreds.

If you knew anything about the Tea Party - and had spent even a few hours among them - you would realize how silly this accusation really is; it is a very large movement and it is driven by noble ideas and intentions (maybe that’s what gets the left so raging angry about it - ironically, that’s where the anger REALLY IS.)

The fact that you’re buying into it only proves how powerful the legacy media is in (misin)forming opinions; and, perhaps, that you simply wish it to be true (why??)

[/quote]

So share with me where I can get some “good” information on the Tea Party. I think I’m getting emails from pretty much all the associated mailing lists.

I know it kills you, but I actually don’t insulate myself in “liberal” media. I just call it like I see it. A lot of my buddies from the Marines are “into” the movement. They’re good people. But they’re associated with a toxic movement, I’d like to see the movement change, but I think it may have been irreversibly co-opted.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Were you there? If not then STFU, seriously, your agenda is not even semi-hidden. Your words are just words unless they are backed up by EVIDENCE. Oh and the “I have too much evidence, so I just won’t post any of it” line is fucking classic.

V[/quote]

I asked a question, I’m waiting for an answer.

But you and I know that anything I could post or share on an internet board could be dismissed as “fringe”. I mean, you can only load on pic at a time per post.[/quote]

Actually that’s funny, because that sign isn’t even directly racist. African is not a race, and nationality is a valid concern for any POTUS. As is lying. I guess you could argue that the combining of the 2 points would insinuate that she has some prejudice against a continent.