Rate Physique And Brand New Posters

Again, I think people are paraniod. With the increase in marketshare Biotest gets, and more mainstream (Spike Shooters) we will see more traffic.

The rating system is just a damn title…GET OVER IT! We had stars before, and now, we can help educate newbies that come.

SO WHAT if they don’t share the same ideals…let’s convert them and not bitch. Nobody starts off big or knowing exactly what to do or what “hardcore” is.

What I do think is that the Rating thread should be titled.

“Rate my Physique and Program”.

This will help people understand it’s not a ‘post a pic and see what people say’ site.

Also remember that the changes will tend to bring out the lurkers as well.
Let’s be happy we have a free site with great products and information.

NOTHING is perfect guys, and you can NEVER satisfy EVERYONE. All we can do is band together and make this site what we want it to be through being good contributors.

[quote]W@LRUS!1 wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
The rest is mediocrity, and mediocrity is shit. Mediocrity is for weekend cross-fitters. Mediocrity is for people who don’t want to get results bad enough to do the work.

Mediocrity sells. Mediocrity = $$$.

Why do you think McDonald’s sell more food than anywhere else? Because they appeal to mediocrity, that’s their target market.

Why do you think the past couple of years there have been so many articles geared towards the 90% of people bracket (read: mediocre masses)? Because that’s where the money is, that’s why.

Articles geared towards the 10% of people bracket (read: testosterone.net of old) are now few and far between.

From a financial standpoint, appealing to mediocrity is a cash cow. But it’s also why many of the old forum members have left. There needs were no longer met, so they found their needs else where.

I get the feeling that TC would like to create the best of both worlds (hardcore and appeal to the masses). Has he succeeded?[/quote]

A lot of you guys sound like you have sand in your vaginas.

I’ll tell you what, I’ll ask Lowfat Matt to set up some sort of algorithm that randomly interjects the phrase, “cuz you’ll get all SWOLE” into articles.

That way, you’ll be happy.

The articles we post now are no different than those in the beginning of Testosterone, except they’re much, much, better. I still use the same criterion to determine if an article passes muster:

Does this article give me a couple of things I want to try and possibly adopt?

If so, chances are, I’ll run it. Hell, give me an article about using 4 grams of steroids a week. If you can make a case for it, I’ll run it, the masses be damned.

[quote]TC wrote:
If so, chances are, I’ll run it. Hell, give me an article about using 4 grams of steroids a week. If you can make a case for it, I’ll run it, the masses be damned.

[/quote]

I think the only person that advocated that much gear has already written for you, TC. All I can say is thank God he’s gone.

I would be happy with a smartly written article discussing steroids in an educated manner. There are Bro Boards all over the internet that the collective IQ of all 200 board members would fit in the heel of of of Mod Laurie’s stilleto pumps. What they are all lacking is the one thing that T-Nation does better than anyone: Take on controversial issues like steroids with unabashed intelligence.

Perhaps something to stem the tide of all the noobs thinking trenadrol is a good thing.

I know that the quality of a given forum is out of your control, but maybe if T-Nation were to refocus on the cutting edge shit that pisses people off would not be a bad thing.

I realize quality steroid writers are few and far between. But certainly there are some folks here at T-Nation that could put together an article that would rattle some cages - in an intelligent manner of course.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

some great stuff…
[/quote]

Pretty much everything that Aragorn wrote is how I always perceived T-Nation to be. It was hardcore, it was tough, it was somewhere that I lurked until I’d absorbed enough information and put it into practice that I felt I could come into the forum and hold my own in.

And that was primarily what I enjoyed about this site. I appreciated the lack of BS, and the fact that the authors and posters interacted with each other provoking (for the most part) intelligent and thoughtful discussions.

Sure, everyone didn’t get along all the time, but often the disagreements led to articulate debates and maybe the occasional flame war (still highly entertaining in itw own right!).

But now… well, it’s different. Really different. Long-time posters are visibly (and in my mind understandably) frustrated. Tired of giving the same, inevitably ignored advice, you just don’t see them contributing to the “I’m 160lb and I want to cut - what’s the best way??” threads even though they’re probably in the best position to give advice at all.

And I don’t blame them. There’s only so many times you can say the same thing over and over again without getting mightily pissed off that no-one seems to have the sense to use the search function or even listen to what you’re saying at all.

I’ve been watching the recent changes with very mixed feelings, and I’m honestly still at a loss trying to figure out exactly who the target audience is as the changes are being made.

Is it a marketing move aimed at reaching a wider audience to promote Biotest to? Is it a genuine attempt to “evolve” T-Nation to the next level but maintain its integrity and “Bodybuilding Think Tank” essence?

Well, only you guys know that. But please bear one thing in mind - there are a number of long-standing members on this thread and around the board who’ve expressed their opinions about the changes. Please bare those opinions in mind.

Your article contributors are absolutely fantastic, that’s not being questioned. But let’s face it, they’re paid. Who takes that information and passes it on? The forum posters. And that’s the difference between the “real” T-Nationers and the passers-by. It’s these long-standing members who’ve consistently gone out of their way to continue the cycle of learning by referencing articles, quoting information, putting programs into practice and giving the very feedback that allows the site to grow at all.

I sometimes regret not thanking these members openly, because the truth is I have learnt as much, if not more, from reading about their experiences as well as reading the formal articles.

This really is about survival of the fittest. If someone wants a pat on the back for doing 250lb quarter squats, let them go to Men’s Health. By creating an environment that filters out the do-ers from the want-to-but-won’t-bother-my-arse crowd you’re creating the very kind of home for lifters that the T-Nation front page purports itself to be:

“Testosterone Nation is a philosophy, a way of life. It’s where there are no excuses and no apologies; where men are free to be men. It’s where the noble aspects of Testosterone rule.”

There are long-standing men and women on this site who live by this ideal. Don’t ignore them. They make T-Nation what it is.

I keep feeling a bit sheepish sticking my nose into these conversations because I haven’t even been around here a year yet, but I can’t help it sometimes.

I have to say that, at least in this thread for sure the “sand in vagina” charge seems unfair. I hear some guys expressing heartfelt views. I’m making no pronouncements beyond observing that there doesn’t seem to be a mindless pugnacious bitchfest going on from the long time members.

For myself, I’m just trying to understand the situation from my limited point of view. If I didn’t have any affection for T-Nation I’d just leave and certainly wouldn’t be volunteering to pay for posting rights.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I keep feeling a bit sheepish sticking my nose into these conversations because I haven’t even been around here a year yet, but I can’t help it sometimes.[/quote]

Don’t worry. Murdering the AoL icon in cold blood gives you a voice in my book any day.

Whatever happens, I hope that the changes are something experimental and that eventually we will shuffle things around to everyone’s liking.

I’m not about to spend yet another post pointing out the faults of this rearrangement. It’s been done enough for Luoma and Patterson to get the feel of our opinions.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I keep feeling a bit sheepish sticking my nose into these conversations because I haven’t even been around here a year yet, but I can’t help it sometimes.

I have to say that, at least in this thread for sure the “sand in vagina” charge seems unfair. I hear some guys expressing heartfelt views. I’m making no pronouncements beyond observing that there doesn’t seem to be a mindless pugnacious bitchfest going on from the long time members.

For myself, I’m just trying to understand the situation from my limited point of view. If I didn’t have any affection for T-Nation I’d just leave and certainly wouldn’t be volunteering to pay for posting rights.
[/quote]

Well said. I just looked…and I don’t have a vagina. While I do live close to a beach, I tend to shower after leaving it.

I am not even “bitching” about the articles. I rarely read the training articles unless someone either calls me out in the discussion after one or one gets referenced in the forums.

I frankly couldn’t care less about brand new training techniques for the most part unless it pertains directly to my own goals. All of my “bitching” is about the apparent new attitude of the site as a whole and why, even in that audio interview, it seemed like the attitude of the interviewER was that long time members don’t even contribute (remember the mention of us not buying supplements?).

Why the hell would someone think that and why are long time members being treated like those barnacles that have to be cleaned off the bottom of boats? If you don’t want us here, just say so.

Quit the skipping around bushes and let me know what the deal is. If the goal is to bring in tons of newbies to the forums, this site will no longer be “hardcore”. It can’t be if the goal is to make that many people happy. The average person doesn’t train hard.

The average person doesn’t make meals days in advance and isn’t going to go lift tonight until it hurts. They think 315lbs deadlifts are impressive and that anyone who actually does work much harder than that has a mental disorder.

Why is this site turning to them for direction?

I mean, honestly, do the people who run this site even give any value at all to the forums? It seems as if the belief is that everyone posting there is uneducated and simply can not even hold an equal conversation with any author here.

From what I can tell, there are several professionals on this board with educations that didn’t end at high school or even college. Why ignore that? Is there a belief that we aren’t as bright?

That isn’t sand writing this. If I didn’t give a shit at all, I wouldn’t have typed this.

[quote]TC wrote:

I’ll tell you what, I’ll ask Lowfat Matt to set up some sort of algorithm that randomly interjects the phrase, “cuz you’ll get all SWOLE” into articles.[/quote]

Done and done.

[quote]LowfatMatt wrote:
TC wrote:

I’ll tell you what, I’ll ask Lowfat Matt to set up some sort of algorithm that randomly interjects the phrase, “cuz you’ll get all SWOLE” into articles.

Done and done.[/quote]

I want an algorithm that randomly interjects a big pair of titties for the periods at the end of sentences.

[quote]TC wrote:
A lot of you guys sound like you have sand in your vaginas.
[/quote]

Hey, back off tough guy. I’m trying to make a pearl here.

[quote]malonetd wrote:

I guess my biggest gripe is that there has been a huge influx of new members recently and very few seem to have to commitment or fire or deep desire to really push yourself and lift and improve. And it seems like the site is catering to that crowd more and more and slowly pushing the veterans away. I used to feel like this site was more intermediate-advanced level. It’s starting to feel more lower intermediate lately.

I don’t mind newbies, but I don’t want a website filled with half-hearted lifters and internet warriors.
[/quote]

Ditto that. You were much more concise than I was. Maybe I should go delete my ramblings. But I needed to get that off my chest, it’s been bothering me for a while.

[quote]TC wrote:

A lot of you guys sound like you have sand in your vaginas…

The articles we post now are no different than those in the beginning of Testosterone, except they’re much, much, better. I still use the same criterion to determine if an article passes muster:

[/quote]

I have no problem with the articles. In my opinion, they’re just as great as they always were. I always learn something, I always question my assumptions about training and nutrition, and I usually laugh a lot in the process. It’s the triple crown.

I’m simply saying that you can’t serve two masters. Also, with the increase in traffic this site sees, a lot of new people with different views are going to be brought here. In that sense, I’m with Rockscar. I understand that, and that’s how I started anyway, so I can appreciate it.

Aside from the fact that I don’t have a vagina, I’m voicing my very deeply felt opinion on a site that literally changed how I looked at myself and how I lived, much for the better, I think. I love this place, and damn it I’m going to say what I think.

I have to agree, The RMP forum looks like a joke to me, and the sudden rush of goofy new posts is either - A. Trolls, as you’ve said or

B. Some kind of weird attempt by the staff to get that forum “going” by starting a bunch of posts. Who has only one photo of their build and no camera? That sounds rather spurious to me…

Anyway, I have to say these changes aren’t sitting well with me, and if T-Nation goes the way of MM2K it will be a very disappointing day in my bodybuilding life indeed…but what are you gonna do, right?

Anyway, Hot or Not forum sucks - I miss the chicks, and now the bodybuilding forum is just article threads…

TC,

I’m really confused as to why there is such resentment towards the comments being made by the vets on the site? We’re not being bitches. The posts are not antagonistic towards Biotest. And each and every time someone from the site/company talks about the commentary it’s like we’re morons. Seriously, WTF?

The forums are becoming a joke with even the most earnest attempts in sharing information being met by ridiculous commentary. But we are being asked to be nice and say, ‘no, it’s ok if you don’t want to eat a lot to lift a lot. And yeah, that guy from the abercrombie and fitch ad is jacked.’

The articles are still top notch and oriented towards the educated lifter, let me continue to thank you to that. But bring the hardcore girls back and give us the keys to the forums. We’ll get it all back on track.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I would have no problem paying some fee to use the forum. However, if the changes keep going in the direction they seem to be, I doubt I will be logging in much in the future anyway.

Turning this site into “Teenaged-Anorexic-How do I get my abs out when I weigh less than my girlfriend-Isolation exercises don’t cause muscle growth-I don’t think for myself because I read insert Author and he thinks for me-Relative strength is great even though I also weigh less than my girlfriend-Palooza” is not something I am just dying to be a part of.[/quote]

I agree. I am still am a newbie, and I apologize for the stupid post about the push/pull comment about the whole bicep routine thread from a while back. I feel dumb.

However, all I do know is that I feel that TP, TC, and CS have to explain to us in detail about why the new direction. Why fix something if it’s not broken? I enjoyed the site before all this shit happen. Just why?

Posts like “Deadlifting 315 IS inspirational”, “Should I quit Training?”, and “Friendly Bet and a six-pack”, are so far from hardcore that it makes me wonder why I come here.

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Posts like “Deadlifting 315 IS inspirational”, “Should I quit Training?”, and “Friendly Bet and a six-pack”, are so far from hardcore that it makes me wonder why I come here. [/quote]

Well, people starting dumbass threads is nothing new, and i think the articles are amazing, and the fact that they are free keep me here, oh along with the fact that i can get free advice from some of the top strength coaches in the business.

Like TC said, when they add stuff that absolutely doesnt work, it usually gets taken down after a bit, I dont see how you can fault them for trying to grow.

Just boycott the new pic threads, dont respond to the Trolls, and relax a bit, you’ll enjoy life more

But to each their own…

–JB

There was a definite “turning point” at this site. Everyone from the “old days” remembers the “gold man cover” of MM2K. T-Nation had that, too.

Someone made an outrageous claim. When that claim (but not the author) was attacked, T-Nation published an article mocking all of the “critics.” All of the arguments made in opposition to the author’s argument were misrepresented; the better ones were omitted. When people tried posting under the “critic” article with anything other than, “This is awesome!,” they were denied. They were told to go post someone else in the forum.

I was actually shocked by that move. I understand protecting one’s authors, but if you are going to purport to reproduce the “critic’s” arguments, at least have the intellectual integrity to accurately reproduce them. Building false arguments and then denying the opportunity for a rebuttal was a bitch move.

It’s been a nice run. They did stay mostly true for almost 8 years. But all things eventually come to pass. T-Mag has decided to change direction. They want to cater to clueless newbies rather than sophisticated lifters. They want what their authors write to be taken as Gospel.

I don’t think their decision was motivated by money. It was caused by hubris. “How dare you people question the ideas of authors I have published.”

As X, noted, above, many people who have questioned some of the more controversial ideas on this site have advanced degrees, C.S.C.S. certifications, etc. But when you have a nasty case of hubris, you ignore or consciously disregard that.

In a year or so when the site is completely populated by “Pee Wees” who don’t lift, I think they’ll realize their mistake. Even if Biotest’s bottom line isn’t hurting, someone will be reflective enough to realize that they have become what they used to mock.

[quote]g’em wrote:
Aragorn wrote:

some great stuff…

Pretty much everything that Aragorn wrote is how I always perceived T-Nation to be. It was hardcore, it was tough, it was somewhere that I lurked until I’d absorbed enough information and put it into practice that I felt I could come into the forum and hold my own in.

And that was primarily what I enjoyed about this site. I appreciated the lack of BS, and the fact that the authors and posters interacted with each other provoking (for the most part) intelligent and thoughtful discussions.

Sure, everyone didn’t get along all the time, but often the disagreements led to articulate debates and maybe the occasional flame war (still highly entertaining in itw own right!).

But now… well, it’s different. Really different. Long-time posters are visibly (and in my mind understandably) frustrated. Tired of giving the same, inevitably ignored advice, you just don’t see them contributing to the “I’m 160lb and I want to cut - what’s the best way??” threads even though they’re probably in the best position to give advice at all.

And I don’t blame them. There’s only so many times you can say the same thing over and over again without getting mightily pissed off that no-one seems to have the sense to use the search function or even listen to what you’re saying at all.

I’ve been watching the recent changes with very mixed feelings, and I’m honestly still at a loss trying to figure out exactly who the target audience is as the changes are being made.

Is it a marketing move aimed at reaching a wider audience to promote Biotest to? Is it a genuine attempt to “evolve” T-Nation to the next level but maintain its integrity and “Bodybuilding Think Tank” essence?

Well, only you guys know that. But please bear one thing in mind - there are a number of long-standing members on this thread and around the board who’ve expressed their opinions about the changes. Please bare those opinions in mind.

Your article contributors are absolutely fantastic, that’s not being questioned. But let’s face it, they’re paid. Who takes that information and passes it on? The forum posters. And that’s the difference between the “real” T-Nationers and the passers-by. It’s these long-standing members who’ve consistently gone out of their way to continue the cycle of learning by referencing articles, quoting information, putting programs into practice and giving the very feedback that allows the site to grow at all.

I sometimes regret not thanking these members openly, because the truth is I have learnt as much, if not more, from reading about their experiences as well as reading the formal articles.

This really is about survival of the fittest. If someone wants a pat on the back for doing 250lb quarter squats, let them go to Men’s Health. By creating an environment that filters out the do-ers from the want-to-but-won’t-bother-my-arse crowd you’re creating the very kind of home for lifters that the T-Nation front page purports itself to be:

“Testosterone Nation is a philosophy, a way of life. It’s where there are no excuses and no apologies; where men are free to be men. It’s where the noble aspects of Testosterone rule.”

There are long-standing men and women on this site who live by this ideal. Don’t ignore them. They make T-Nation what it is. [/quote]

All I’m asking–and it’s a lot–is that you trust me (us) for the time being.

I promise you, there are no grand schemes to change the tone of the site.

Many of the new authors I approached didn’t like the fact that we allowed attacks on the author.

So we changed that. Isn’t it better in the long run that we get more authors and more information?

Besides, I have an idea where we can still have that reader-author interaction that most of you seem to like.

The “Rate my Physique” thing is just an experiment.

If it turns out to be weenie, we’ll get rid of it.

And you’re still welcome to be pissy to newcomers when they deserve it, but let’s not drive away all newcomers. You and I were newcomers once and we didn’t know a damn thing.