the rate my physique is lame and i dont want to pay for shit.
I’d be happy to pay too.
Maybe just an extra section only available to subscribers, where people with the “hardcore” mentality could hang out and shoot the shit.
[quote]Majin wrote:
I really don’t get the managerial decision on all this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/quote]
I haven’t been around that long and accordingly don’t pretend to have the personal investment that some of you guys do. However I read your whole post and found a lot of merit in what you say. In fact some of it I’ve said myself.
What do you propose? I feel like Ross Perot during the 92 election anymore. Great at identifying problems, but no solutions. I’m asking because beyond the pay to post thing I honestly don’t know.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I look at the Hot or Not forum out of sheer, morbid curiosity and to view the trainwreck that is those threads.[/quote]
That forum should be retitled “Train Wreck”.
It has a similar feel to when MM2K began to die and became the lame Muscle Media magazine. Oddly, TC was the editor when MM2K still rocked.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I would have no problem paying some fee to use the forum. However, if the changes keep going in the direction they seem to be, I doubt I will be logging in much in the future anyway.
It wouldn’t be a big deal to me to pay. I mean, what’s 5 or 10 bucks? At the same time, I’m really starting to feel like I have outgrown T-Nation.
Six or seven years ago, when I first found this place, it was so different, so hardcore, so real. I liked the community that was here; everyone seemed so strong and serious about their pursuit. Even those that didn’t share your goals respected the effort and commitment.
It feels much more watered-down now. As it is now, most of my time on this site is spent in the “Get a Life” forum. But I can “get a life” at any website, I used to come here because it was different.
There were no-filler articles on steroids. Now we have post after post about creatine and its “side effects.”
There were articles with words like Hardcore, Swole, and Jacked in the title. Now there are posts about ripping abs and staying skinny.
There were articles by Dave Tate about squatting 900 and benching 500. Now we have posts call a 315 deadlift inspirational.
I hate to sound like and old man reminiscing, and I know times change, but there was I time when I felt stronger every time I came here. Maybe this just isn’t the place for me anymore.[/quote]
Best post in this thread.
I might add, that with all of the waif-boy, ab-loving influx has come the same type of morons in the steroid section that are more interested in source checks, and designer orals than they are about educating themselves.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Maybe we could have a “Rate My Physique” forum and a separate normal “Physique and Performane Photos” forum?[/quote]
You can still post any pics you like.
You don’t have to participate in the “Rate My Physique” thing.
However, I was of the mind that the “Rate my Physique” thing would give you guys what you want, in addition to solving one of our problems.
I was bellyaching that you guys were driving away some poor newbie slobs who had the gall to post pics of their often underdeveloped bodies.
However, if they post pics in the “Rate My Physique” thread, they’re giving everyone their consent to blast away. They come into it with their eyes open.
Anyhow, as always, it the feature doesn’t work, it’ll go away.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Six or seven years ago, when I first found this place, it was so different, so hardcore, so real. I liked the community that was here; everyone seemed so strong and serious about their pursuit. Even those that didn’t share your goals respected the effort and commitment.
It feels much more watered-down now. As it is now, most of my time on this site is spent in the “Get a Life” forum. But I can “get a life” at any website, I used to come here because it was different.
There were no-filler articles on steroids. Now we have post after post about creatine and its “side effects.”
There were articles with words like Hardcore, Swole, and Jacked in the title. Now there are posts about ripping abs and staying skinny.
There were articles by Dave Tate about squatting 900 and benching 500. Now we have posts call a 315 deadlift inspirational.
I hate to sound like and old man reminiscing, and I know times change, but there was I time when I felt stronger every time I came here. Maybe this just isn’t the place for me anymore.[/quote]
Dave Tate should have a new article to me any day.
And you really like words like “swole” and “jacked” in the titles?
Man, I guess I felt cheesy and juvenile using them. I think I outgrew them.
However, if that’s what it takes to be hardcore, I suppose I could throw in one occasionally to mollify those who need such titles.
And if you’re referring to the article where Eric Cressey talked about 315 deadlifts, he said they WEREN’T inspirational. He said anyone under 50 should be able to do one with ease.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Professor X wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
I’m finding that putting up stickies in the ‘Bodybuilding’ forum just clutters everything up.
My $0.02, should the T-Nation powers-that-be value my opinion.
I agree.
I agree too.
I also think the beginners section should come back.
[/quote]
I agree with all of the above posters. “Rate My Physique” just screams Hot or Not.com. I too think the beginner’s forum should come back. Consolidating that into the bodybuilding forum will just dilute the threads there with more newbie threads. The newbs need somewhere dedicated to them, so that we can have all the questions in one spot to answer, and hopefully also keep from diluting the bodybuilding forum too much more. Keep a separate forum for article discussions too, if you’re determined to lock them up on the main page.
I never thought I’d say this, but for the first time since I joined this site, I’m lukewarm to medium-cold on most of the changes TC and co. have instituted. I may change my opinion later, but it’s not looking likely right now.
[quote]TC wrote:
And if you’re referring to the article where Eric Cressey talked about 315 deadlifts, he said they WEREN’T inspirational. He said anyone under 50 should be able to do one with ease.
[/quote]
Hey TC, I think he was referring to a thread following up on the article that said that 315 deadlifts were inspirational.
[quote]Wayland wrote:
when it was PPP it seemed more suitable for posting sport orientated pictures competitions or training etc etc
as stated before its now got a tacky feel to it
additionally it has that slightly gay bodybuilding.com vibe about it, not that theres anything wrong with that[/quote]
Megadittos to this!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
They might as well make a new site just for that and let them go crazy with it.[/quote]
Now you’re on to something. That would result in less clutter.
[quote]TC wrote:
Dave Tate should have a new article to me any day.
And you really like words like “swole” and “jacked” in the titles?
Man, I guess I felt cheesy and juvenile using them. I think I outgrew them.
However, if that’s what it takes to be hardcore, I suppose I could throw in one occasionally to mollify those who need such titles.
And if you’re referring to the article where Eric Cressey talked about 315 deadlifts, he said they WEREN’T inspirational. He said anyone under 50 should be able to do one with ease.
[/quote]
I don’t believe that malonetd is talking about any particular words or phrases or article titles, but instead the atmosphere and environment. I really don’t care what the words are, as long as the info is there. But there really IS a thread that says “deadlifting 315 IS Inspirational.” That alone should tell you how far this site has been slipping.
And frankly, while I understand the concept of letting newbs post pictures with their eyes open to the possibilities of being flamed, it’s creating a bigger problem. As mentioned before, there is a vast and omnipresent CULTURE of internet rating that is now being promoted with this new forum title/rating system. People do and will post stupid crap more to get attention and be rated. Just look at HotorNot.com and other sites like it.
Furthermore, I don’t care about the majority of the newbs. I only care about the ones that care to put time and effort into learning and experimenting in order to excel. The rest is mediocrity, and mediocrity is shit. Mediocrity is for weekend cross-fitters. Mediocrity is for people who don’t want to get results bad enough to do the work. Mediocrity is for everything the credo to Testosterone (and T-Nation) stands against.
I want to talk about my experience here at this site. Not to toot my own horn by any means, but to try to show you what I’m talking about. *****This will be long, but PLEASE read it all, even if you tell me I’m off my rocker.
When I started training and reading this site, I paid my dues. I read, and read, and read, and read, sometimes upwards of 5 hours a day. I didn’t ask the staff (it was Reader Mail format) whether or not I needed 1.57 or 1.58 g protein per lb. And I didn’t ask a question that READING THE CURRENT ARTICLES would have anwered.
I read them first, and THEN cleared up issues. I can remember several specific posts like this in recent times. I did ask stupid questions (I was a newb, after all), but I picked a program, stuck with it, then picked another one and stuck with it, and so on. Eventually I started designing my own workouts. I worked on designing my training from the beginning, even as I was doing an “as written” program by an author.
This is the key point–I REMEMBER when the forums started, reading dumb posts by people that were stupid. They got called out, harshly. Some stuck around, some didn’t. Those who stuck around figured they’d start taking advice.
IT WAS SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. That’s the whole point of being “hardcore”. It’s the attitude of “I’m leading the way over here, if you want to come along, follow me. If you don’t, stay the &$** away from us and wallow in your mediocrity. We’ve got goals to meet, and records to break.” If you had different goals, then as long as you laid your heart out in pursuit of it, people would respect that. They’d also give you crap for it, a lot of crap. But it was all a brotherhood in the end, rough and tumble though it be. Those who wanted it bad enough changed and progressed. Personal change is and was necessary to reap the progress.
THERE WERE, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, people who get left behind. People who don’t understand the concept of Testosterone and T-Nation. This place isn’t for everyone. You’ve said that yourself TC. You and Tim and CP made this place specifically to cater to people who wanted to bleed on the leading edge, and sharpen it themselves. You can’t have that while playing “nice” with people. Either they recognize the need to change or they don’t.
There will also always be people who leave. I remember Patricia, Goldberg, and a bunch of others. I learned so much from soaking up their posts and advice it wasn’t even funny. They left, maybe because they felt that the trolls were pissing them off, or because people start arguments on threads, or whatever. There are always going to be people who leave for some reason.
But you will make that problem worse if you cease to go balls out after the end goal of perfection and start asking people to play nice with others. Test never was and never will be a nice hormone. It’s rough and tumble, often contradictory and contrary, but ultimately respectful of the pursuit of excellence.
People like me, who were newbs once at T-Mag, who recognized the need to change personally, and who survived the rough and tumble, are the fuel this place runs on. Maybe they came from other sites, or just stumbled upon this Nation like I did.
But they have the same drive, the same desire. You can’t fake that, and you can’t coddle that. You can’t dumb down Spartan training and expect to have Spartan warriors. The cutting edge hurts, but it gives something back at the same time. It only remains for you to look in the mirror and accept what you hear.
[quote]TC wrote:
Dave Tate should have a new article to me any day.[/quote]
I look forward to it.
For the record, the majority of the articles here are pretty good. Occasionally there are a few that are crap, but most of are good.(Can I take this opportuniy to vote for some strongman related articles?) I do, however think that the quality of the posts have gone way down. And this is coming from someone who likes potty humor and bad jokes.
[quote]
And you really like words like “swole” and “jacked” in the titles?[/quote]
Yeah, every so often I would like something along those lines. Something a little edgier than “bigger.” A little hyperbole can be good from time to time. I mean, doesn’t every aspiring bodybuilders dream of being “swole” and “jacked” anyway?
[quote]
Man, I guess I felt cheesy and juvenile using them. I think I outgrew them.
However, if that’s what it takes to be hardcore, I suppose I could throw in one occasionally to mollify those who need such titles.[/quote]
Thank you. And since we’re on the subject, where do the titles come from? Do the authors title their own works? Or do the editors do that?
Yeah, I know what Cressey said and I agree with it. I was referring to this thread that came up:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1536345
I guess my biggest gripe is that there has been a huge influx of new members recently and very few seem to have to commitment or fire or deep desire to really push yourself and lift and improve. And it seems like the site is catering to that crowd more and more and slowly pushing the veterans away. I used to feel like this site was more intermediate-advanced level. It’s starting to feel more lower intermediate lately.
I don’t mind newbies, but I don’t want a website filled with half-hearted lifters and internet warriors.
I also think part of the problem with the “Rate…” forum is that it encourages more people to post with less progress. People are curious and will want to be rated. They want their progress quantified. They want to know where they stand compared to so-and-so. They want a number. Will only text responses, they didn’t get that. Plus, I just think it’s cheesy, and, apparently a lot of people agree.
Like I said before, I know times change and I know businesses must be dynamic and flexible to be successful, but, please, TC, please don’t alienate those of us that have been hanging along for this ride.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I hate to sound like and old man reminiscing, and I know times change, but there was I time when I felt stronger every time I came here. Maybe this just isn’t the place for me anymore.[/quote]
This idea pops up every now and again. I remember last time PGA was the one to say it.
What it comes down to is: there’s only so many times it can be said to eat big, lift big and sleep big to get big. Once we learn this and practice it… well, what else is there? Get a life is about all that’s left.
I do like the idea of hardcore lifters having their (our) own section. As compared to a beginner section and advanced sections lumped into one bodybuilding section.
Agreed. I don’t even post that much because I usually don’t feel the need to, but I have been recently exactly because I feel like the place I love is disappearing. I read the site close to every day, and have been since the paper magazine, many of which I still own.
I know TC and Tim don’t like to hear this, and they always chalk it up to something like the site is going in a new direction or evolving or whatnot but, really, is the direction you guys want to go the direction that other far less bleeding edge sites have been going in from the beginning?
I notice stifling of dissent is happening, too, as my David Hasselhoff and puppy picture criticizing the rate me site seems to have been removed after being posted in the first place. I wonder what it was…naked Hasselhoff…the critique of the rate me forum…certainly not the puppies…? (<—I am being slightly sarcastic here)
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m really starting to feel like I have outgrown T-Nation.
Six or seven years ago, when I first found this place, it was so different, so hardcore, so real. I liked the community that was here; everyone seemed so strong and serious about their pursuit. Even those that didn’t share your goals respected the effort and commitment.
It feels much more watered-down now. As it is now, most of my time on this site is spent in the “Get a Life” forum. But I can “get a life” at any website, I used to come here because it was different.
There were no-filler articles on steroids. Now we have post after post about creatine and its “side effects.”
There were articles with words like Hardcore, Swole, and Jacked in the title. Now there are posts about ripping abs and staying skinny.
There were articles by Dave Tate about squatting 900 and benching 500. Now we have posts call a 315 deadlift inspirational.
I hate to sound like and old man reminiscing, and I know times change, but there was I time when I felt stronger every time I came here. Maybe this just isn’t the place for me anymore.[/quote]
[quote]malonetd wrote:
<<< I guess my biggest gripe is that there has been a huge influx of new members recently and very few seem to have to commitment or fire or deep desire to really push yourself and lift and improve. >>>[/quote]
That should be more than made up for by guys with 5 posts who wanna know what to eat during a Rave.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1539030
This guy has posted once since he joined in December and got the impression that for his third post this would be a good place to get this information.
I think this is what is being referred to. The fact that people are being left with the idea that getting smaller, frisbee competitions and the highly motivational topic of Rave nutrition are natural discussions here. Which they must be because look at all the responses.
I really don’t mean to come off the wrong way, but seriously folks LOL come on. There has to something to this.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[snip a lot of great stuff]
The cutting edge hurts, but it gives something back at the same time. It only remains for you to look in the mirror and accept what you hear.
[/quote]
Absolutely and heartily agreed. I sincerely hope that Tim and TC are hearing the sentiments of what appear to be a lot of the members here. The site still has a ton of great, great information to offer. I hope that it does not get lost in the struggle to be all things to all people.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Congrats. We now have T-Nation’s version of bb.com.[/quote]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
The rest is mediocrity, and mediocrity is shit. Mediocrity is for weekend cross-fitters. Mediocrity is for people who don’t want to get results bad enough to do the work.[/quote]
Mediocrity sells. Mediocrity = $$$.
Why do you think McDonald’s sell more food than anywhere else? Because they appeal to mediocrity, that’s their target market.
Why do you think the past couple of years there have been so many articles geared towards the 90% of people bracket (read: mediocre masses)? Because that’s where the money is, that’s why.
Articles geared towards the 10% of people bracket (read: testosterone.net of old) are now few and far between.
From a financial standpoint, appealing to mediocrity is a cash cow. But it’s also why many of the old forum members have left. There needs were no longer met, so they found their needs else where.
I get the feeling that TC would like to create the best of both worlds (hardcore and appeal to the masses). Has he succeeded?