Rapid Fat Loss vs. V-Diet

Nutrition
81

FNF, thanks for adding to this thread.

CS says that the V-Diet creates the most convenience for a PSMF. I think it would create inconvenience for my life. Since it’s a liquid diet, one has to be concerned where they will get their phytonutrients, fiber, and EFAs from. Now, not only do they have to purchase liquid or powdered protein, they have to purchase something like Greens Plus or Superfood and fish-oil capsules. I find it far more enjoyable to simply buy and consume vegetables and salmon and hold onto my money.

It would also create inconvenience for me because I eat out two or three times per week with a woman or friends. Imagine me sitting there with friends or a woman and saying “Don’t worry. I’m not eating; I have a protein shake sitting in the car.” What a load of fun!

On the RFL diet, I can go out to nearly all restaurants and order an applicable meal. I can order chicken, salmon, pork, or beef, and a salad with only vinegar and steamed vegetables. If it’s breakfast, I order an egg-white omelet and substitute home fries with vegetables. When I went to Japanese restaurants a few times while on the RFL diet, I’d order a kim-chee or clear soup and sashimi with no rice. Does this sound a lot more fun than drinking shakes?

What do you mean by metabolic pairings? Are you referring to Alwyn Cosgrove and Charles Poliquin’s recommendations for fat loss, pairing upper and lower body exercises for supersetting, like the GBC and Afterburn methods? I’m very fond of Afterburn. I have the book.

CaliforniaLaw,

I haven’t read The Stubborn Fat Loss Solution, but I plan on it. Right now, most of the reading I’m doing is on weight loss as this is the niche I want to focus on as a private-counseling dietitian in the near future.

82

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
What do you mean by metabolic pairings? Are you referring to Alwyn Cosgrove and Charles Poliquin’s recommendations for fat loss, pairing upper and lower body exercises for supersetting, like the GBC and Afterburn methods? I’m very fond of Afterburn. I have the book.

[/quote]

I use exercises from Thibs Stripping Fat with Metabolic Pairings article.

Hang Clean + Push Press 3x6
Burpees 3x15

Snatch DL 3x8-10
KB Swing 3x15/15/15

As you know, Lyle wants this kind of workout in the beginning of the week, but due to my schedule, I found it easier to put the heavy training day on Monday and than have the refeed.

83

[quote]fnf wrote:
Hey Brick,
Nice thread.
I tried the V-Diet for the 3rd time and lasted only 1 week, about April 4th to the 11th. I went crazy only drinking liquid meals. Gus was the man for being able to stick to the V-Diet for 4 weeks. Heck, anyone who completes the V-Diet gets my ultimate respect.

Now the reason I failed the V-Diet was because I need to eat something. So I started Lyles RFL diet. I started April 19th and plan on going til May 30th, for a total of 6weeks.

For that 1 week layoff, I used lame excuses like I have to get my hormones back together, yada, yada, yada, and every other excuse to over-eat you can think of, and went to 206.

I changed the workout recommendations of Lyle to fit my schedule. By the way, Lyle recommends only 2 sessions a week because of the low calories. So my workout went:
Monday-Heaavy day, with 5 hr REFEED
Wednesday-KB circuit of 5 exercises (quad, hip, core, push, and pull) using 24kg and 28kg KB
Friday-Metabolic pairings, with FREE MEAL

Eating vegetables and having the refeed and free meals, are the only reasons I can survive on this diet.

I haven’t felt worn down, and all my lifts have not went down. If I do start to get tired, I’ll take out the KB day.

So, 206, 21.3%bf on April 19th. I’m currently 190 and hoping for at least 17% on May 29th when I check by bf%. [/quote]

I did the V-Diet twice for 4 weeks… kinda.

I live in UK so Biotest supps are hard to come by…

1st time I used a blend of unflavoured casien and whey concentrate… every single shake was gag inducing. That was a horrific 4 weeks.

2nd time i played with macros… protein stayed at 1g per lb bodyweight, calories the same but under 30g carbs - rest from fats.

Second time was much more efficient with much less muscle loss - but still way too much for my liking. I think I overdid the NEPA walks with my weighted backpack.

Currently doing Thibs Regressive keto cycle…

84

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

But how much protein does it say you need??? I was looking at the website and it suggests

"A 165-pound male with normal activity patterns may have a maintenance requirement of about 2700 calories per day. At 800 calories per day on this diet . . . "

800cals a day? and it says the diet can be as low as 400cals a day.

How does it calculate your protein need? Take your daily requirements and make that your weekly total?

oh you are going to be so cranky

The diet can be as low as 400 kcal for a small woman that doesn’t exercise.

800 kcal for a 165# male sounds about right considering that I weight 225# and am ingesting about 1,200 to 1,400 kcal per day. I take in 1.25 grams of protein per pound of estimated lean body mass.

As I said, the protein need is calculated depending on activity volume, type of training, and leanness. That takes care of the caloric allotment, considering all you count are protein grams, fibrous vegetable intake, and 6 grams of fish oil or 15 grams of flax oil.

I don’t know if it’s appropriate that I explain all facets of the diet, because then I’ll be giving away the book’s concepts away fore free, I believe.

I have no idea where my training outline went when I tried to edit some of it. But here it is again. It’s a two-days-per-week program:

Day 1:

Explosive upper body exercise (I choose from plyo pushup, speed bench press, push press, or push jerk)
Glute-ham raise or pullthrough
Walking lunges
Dumbbell bench press
Dumbbell row
Ab wheel

Day 2:

Explosive lower body exercise (speed box-squat, jump squat, box jump, or muscle snatch (my favorite))
Front or dumbbell squat
Single stiff-legged deadlift
Lateral raises
Lat pulldown, chinup, or pullover
Pushup-to-side-plank

Interval training is done after both workouts:
45 to 60 second sprint:120 second coast x 5 intervals

Walking is done on off days.

As you can see, it’s Dos Remedios- an Cosgrove-inspired.

[/quote]

Hey Brick,
How did the intervals in your program go? I’m thinking of changing my workouts for the next 3 weeks and wanted to know if you were able to recuperate from the intervals. I have the revised book and he explains his reasoning for certain training methods with the diet.
Thanks

85

I only did intervals twice per week after the two workouts per week. I only did five rounds per interval workout for a 1:3 or 1:2 work/recover ratio (i.e.: 1 minute fast, 2 minutes slow). I recovered fine; if I didn’t, I wouldn’t have kept them in.

86

Great thread, glad I revisited it. Anyone who wants to get serious in regards to their diet and nutrition should thoroughly read Lyle McDonald’s work. After reading tons of his free articles and e-books as well as Jamie Hale’s “Knowledge and Nonsense” my entire outlook on food has changed for the better.

I’m glad I did the V-Diet purely for the torture I endured. The RFL diet is way more practical, and would be a cinch for anyone who considers the V-Diet.

87

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Here’s the horrific, ultra-low calorie daily plan though:

Meal1
6 egg whites
spinach
2 slices fat-free cheese

Meal 2
7 oz canned chicken
Salad (tomatoes, cucumbers, onions, carrots, beets) with vinegar

Meal 3
5 oz canned tuna
Salad with vinegar

Meal 4
6 oz canned salmon
Salad with vinegar

Mid-workout shake
20 oz Gatorade

Meal 5
Ham and turkey cold cuts (6 oz total) over salad with vinegar

Meal 6
1 cup 1%-fat cottage cheese
[/quote]

Thanks for posting this thread.

I like this approach much better thsn the V (which I’ve done twice).

The “horrific” daily plan still sounds so much better than…

Meal1. Drink a shake

Meal2. Drink another shake

Meal3. Choke down a shake

Meal4. Gag on a shake

Ad infinitum, Ad nauseam.

88

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

I haven’t read The Stubborn Fat Loss Solution, but I plan on it. Right now, most of the reading I’m doing is on weight loss as this is the niche I want to focus on as a private-counseling dietitian in the near future.
[/quote]

Hey Brick, I was going to ask you if you could recommend some sort of website or database for pre-screened/legitimate dieticians where I might find one in my area. If you’re considering going into business yourself, let’s talk. I will buy the book, but I fear it may be too scientific for me.

I’m a numbers guy, and I get lost in sciency words. I am insulin resistant, and I bought a couple books on the glycemic index, and low glycemic cooking and so forth, but got very little out of them:(

I surmise that with your bi-lingual communication skillz you will do quite well as a consultant.

89

Eric,

You can check the American Dietetics Association website, www.eatright.org, to find RDs in your area. I don’t know any in Wisconsin. We do have some awesome, well-known, and prolific ones in NYC though.

I predict I will have my online counseling business and website up in two months. I have to do a bit more consulting with my RD friends who do online work, reading some RD-specific publications for this sort of thing, and working out some other semantics.

The book is written SOOOO simply and requires ONE equation to plan the diet. He provides extensive historical and scientific reasoning for the basis of the diet, but this doesn’t have to be read at all. The only reason I can think of as to why he even put so much scientific background into it is to entertain other nutrition professionals and all-out nerds. If your familiar with dietetic exchanges (i.e.: 7 grams of protein per oz of lean meat, 7 grams protein in 1/4 cup cottage cheese), you can design this diet in about 10 minutes or less!

And no dout bout ma bilingualizm; I’m frum Killa Kweenz, da mos diverse place in da world, son! Even ma homies want ma advice, ekspeshully doze in da pen!

90

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Eric,

You can check the American Dietetics Association website, www.eatright.org, to find RDs in your area. I don’t know any in Wisconsin. We do have some awesome, well-known, and prolific ones in NYC though.

I predict I will have my online counseling business and website up in two months. I have to do a bit more consulting with my RD friends who do online work, reading some RD-specific publications for this sort of thing, and working out some other semantics.

The book is written SOOOO simply and requires ONE equation to plan the diet. He provides extensive historical and scientific reasoning for the basis of the diet, but this doesn’t have to be read at all. The only reason I can think of as to why he even put so much scientific background into it is to entertain other nutrition professionals and all-out nerds. If your familiar with dietetic exchanges (i.e.: 7 grams of protein per oz of lean meat, 7 grams protein in 1/4 cup cottage cheese), you can design this diet in about 10 minutes or less!

And no dout bout ma bilingualizm; I’m frum Killa Kweenz, da mos diverse place in da world, son! Even ma homies want ma advice, ekspeshully doze in da pen![/quote]

Thanks for the info Brick. I will check out www.eatright.org, but aim for a dietician in Chicago, as the medical professionals I’ve dealt with in Wisconsin are none too impressive.

Sounds like the book will require spreadsheets. Lots of them.

Keep it real in Kweenz yo. I don’t know nothin’ ‘bout the place, but if all the homies are smart and amuzin’ like yosef, it must be an interestin place.

Peace bro.

91

Dude, look at the RFL diet I used. Does that LOOK complicated… AT ALL?

92

Thank goodness I post under a false name on here. Maybe I’ll be found out one day. But here goes: most RDs are out of touch too!

Don’t think of going to RDs saying, “ya know; I’d like to experiment with a PSMF”, and them replying, “oh yeah; I tried one myself; it’s a very efficent, quick way to lose weight for those that don’t have the patience and have failed with other approaches”. Some RDs are really cutting-edge; most aren’t.

Some won’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about!

So look for a real savvy one, preferably a sports RD. Look for the “CSSD” certification at the end of their name.

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Eric,

You can check the American Dietetics Association website, www.eatright.org, to find RDs in your area. I don’t know any in Wisconsin. We do have some awesome, well-known, and prolific ones in NYC though.

I predict I will have my online counseling business and website up in two months. I have to do a bit more consulting with my RD friends who do online work, reading some RD-specific publications for this sort of thing, and working out some other semantics.

The book is written SOOOO simply and requires ONE equation to plan the diet. He provides extensive historical and scientific reasoning for the basis of the diet, but this doesn’t have to be read at all. The only reason I can think of as to why he even put so much scientific background into it is to entertain other nutrition professionals and all-out nerds. If your familiar with dietetic exchanges (i.e.: 7 grams of protein per oz of lean meat, 7 grams protein in 1/4 cup cottage cheese), you can design this diet in about 10 minutes or less!

And no dout bout ma bilingualizm; I’m frum Killa Kweenz, da mos diverse place in da world, son! Even ma homies want ma advice, ekspeshully doze in da pen!

Thanks for the info Brick. I will check out www.eatright.org, but aim for a dietician in Chicago, as the medical professionals I’ve dealt with in Wisconsin are none too impressive.

Sounds like the book will require spreadsheets. Lots of them.

Keep it real in Kweenz yo. I don’t know nothin’ ‘bout the place, but if all the homies are smart and amuzin’ like yosef, it must be an interestin place.

Peace bro.[/quote]

93

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Dude, look at the RFL diet I used. Does that LOOK complicated… AT ALL? [/quote]

No it doesn’t. As a matter of fact, my daily diet is very simple, I have no problem eating the same things pretty much each day.

I am not looking as much for a weight loss diet, more of one to manage the insulin resistance but provide adequate energy levels for lifting & biking. I have a hard time maintaining weight let alone gaining. I recently upped my carb intake quite a bit to put on some weight, and all it did was made me uncomfortably bloated and increased the number of visits to the throne each day. Seemed like a huge waste of food/money.

I was kidding about the spreadsheets, although I did put together an elaborate one a year or so ago when I was trying to employ the methodologies of a bulk diet I found here. F’ing thing was so complex, I needed a spreadsheet.

94

Which diet was so complex?

I’m giving RFL ONE more go after this week is over. I’ve been eating a lifestyle, maintenance diet for three weeks since the last run. I think this will be the last go on this diet for awhile. I just have a bit more flab I want to get rid of for summer.

95

I think it was massive eating, but am not certain because the spreadsheet is on another computer. There were different protein, carb, and fat ratios depending on your level of insulin sensitivity, multipliers which take into account your weight and whether your goal was to lean, maintain or gain. If you really want to know, I can look into it. Let me know.

Anyway, I got fed up with it because it took too much time to set up, and keep track of the timing of feedings, as well as the whole bloated - too many trips to the john thing.

For now, I want to fine tune the diet to see what is keeping my glucose levels elevated (98-99), but still have the energy for biking & lifting. I usually bike 90-100 miles a week June to September.

Thanks for the advice Brick, I will look for a sports RD whose name ends in CSSD.

96

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
I think it was massive eating, but am not certain because the spreadsheet is on another computer. There were different protein, carb, and fat ratios depending on your level of insulin sensitivity, multipliers which take into account your weight and whether your goal was to lean, maintain or gain. If you really want to know, I can look into it. Let me know.

Anyway, I got fed up with it because it took too much time to set up, and keep track of the timing of feedings, as well as the whole bloated - too many trips to the john thing.

For now, I want to fine tune the diet to see what is keeping my glucose levels elevated (98-99), but still have the energy for biking & lifting. I usually bike 90-100 miles a week June to September.

Thanks for the advice Brick, I will look for a sports RD whose name ends in CSSD.[/quote]

Correct me If I’m wrong, but isn’t that the diet were you have to do a fasting glucose level and than check you blood sugars every half hour after consuming a glucose beverage to determine which group your in (i.e insulin resistant or not)??

Sounds like a lot of work that a lot of regular people wouldn’t be able to do, pretty much I look at it as, if you have a lot of fat go easy on the carbs period, very few people do well on really high doses of carbs. And if you are going to have a few carbs time them to either in the morning or around you workout.

Im from Chicago and did my undergrad work in dietetics there, but unfortunately I don’t know one Dietitan in the area that is a reliable source for what your looking for,

heres probably the best resource I can think of, its a list of CSSD dietitans from the SCAN practice group which essentially is the ADA’s homepage for CSSD dietitans,

Illinois http://www.scandpg.org/mapsearch.php?state=IL#search

Wisconsin http://www.scandpg.org/mapsearch.php?state=WI#search

97

How long will you be running the RFL this time Brick? Which category will you be following? I just did a week as a cat 1 and after experiencing the Velocity Diet, this just seems like a week of clean eating, low carb, low fat foods. I dropped 7 lbs (mind you water weight was the bulk of it) in a week. That matched my first week’s total on the Velocity Diet so % weight loss was actually greater on RFL.

98

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Which diet was so complex?

I’m giving RFL ONE more go after this week is over. I’ve been eating a lifestyle, maintenance diet for three weeks since the last run. I think this will be the last go on this diet for awhile. I just have a bit more flab I want to get rid of for summer.

[/quote]

Hey Brick, just out of curiousity how much fat do you loose on a cylce of the RFL? And how many times do you repeat it?
Do you lose a lot less the following times? One more question if you don’t mind, how long of a break do you personally usually give yourself before doing another round?
Reason I ask is that I’ve been doing a lengthy UD2.0/Body Opus hybrid and and want to give it a break for a couple of weeks since I started to slow down on results. I got about 6-7 lbs to go and wanted to hit that mark asap. Do you think coming back to the RFL accomplish this? Thanks.

99

The first time I tried it, I lost about 20 pounds. I didn’t take skinfold measurements. I just used the scale and mirror. I also designed the diet with an estimated bodyfat. Again, I don’t know any good personal trainers good with a 12-site skinfold, nor am I going to a college exercise physiology lab.

I gained back a bit of that fat in in the next two months before trying it a second time, which was my last time. The place I was working in was shutting down over the course of those two months and I FUCKING HATED working there. It was like 2 months of indiscipline and mild, non-clinical depression. So I missed some workouts and ate haphazardly. That’s very unlike me, but it was just a bad time for me. I’m not saying this to brag or sound funny, but the only things that were fun in those two months were cheat meals and sex.

The second time I ran it, I lost about 15 pounds. As I said, I wanted to run it for 6 weeks, but stopped after 4.5; I couldn’t take it anymore!

I don’t think it should be repeated too close together over and over. If I had to use it for someone with a shitload of fat to lose who was very impatient, I think I’d set them up on something like 4 weeks RFL, 2 to 3 weeks maintenance, 4 weeks RFL.

He advised 2 to 3 week breaks in between.

I lost some of my knowledge on Bodyopus and UD2. Bodyopus is sitting in my library and I lost the UD2 e-book.

100

[quote]ndiddy85 wrote:
Correct me If I’m wrong, but isn’t that the diet were you have to do a fasting glucose level and than check you blood sugars every half hour after consuming a glucose beverage to determine which group your in (i.e insulin resistant or not)??

Sounds like a lot of work that a lot of regular people wouldn’t be able to do, pretty much I look at it as, if you have a lot of fat go easy on the carbs period, very few people do well on really high doses of carbs. And if you are going to have a few carbs time them to either in the morning or around you workout.

Im from Chicago and did my undergrad work in dietetics there, but unfortunately I don’t know one Dietitan in the area that is a reliable source for what your looking for,

heres probably the best resource I can think of, its a list of CSSD dietitans from the SCAN practice group which essentially is the ADA’s homepage for CSSD dietitans,

Illinois http://www.scandpg.org/mapsearch.php?state=IL#search

Wisconsin http://www.scandpg.org/mapsearch.php?state=WI#search
[/quote]

I think you are referring to a glucose tolerance test. I have not had one of those, but my Doc said that I was probably insulin resistant because I eat very few carbs, yet the last three annual lab tests showed my fasting blood glucose to be 98-99. He’s not as concerned about it as I am, but then he does not know how little in the way of carbs I take in on a daily basis. There are no diabetics in my family, so I have no idea why it would be consistently high.

Thanks for the links.