Rapid Fat Loss vs. V-Diet

Nutrition
41

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
JM,

I was not referring to P-C and P-F combos; I was referring to other types of combos.

For example, some people think that a bowl of cereal with full-fat milk and a glass of orange juice is a good meal. Some think a bagel with cream cheese is a good meal. I don’t think these are meals. The items aren’t ideal and they don’t have much protein.

An apple isn’t a meal. An apple and a cup of cottage cheese is a meal. See what I mean? [/quote]

Ok, I see what you mean.

While I agree that a “proper meal” should contain all three macronutrients, having a meal that doesn’t include a complete protein source won’t harm you if you eat enough protein at the end of the day.

For example, I could have french toast for brunch (and not include a source of protein) but so long as I eat 250g of protein that day, does it really matter? No, it doesn’t.

Of course, a meal containing protein will typically be more filling and satisfying that a meal lacking any protein, but other than that, I see no reason to include protein at EVERY meal, especially if someone is eating 6-8x per day.

Especially since some studies have suggested that “lumping” your protein into 3-4 pulses throughout the day is better from a protein synthesis standpoint than 6-8x per day. I think it was Layne Norton who originally brought that to light.

Anyways, thanks for the explanation, let us know how things go.

42

Ok I think im going to try this out

Would this work?

Meal 1:
6 Egg Whites
Spinach
2 slices cheese

Meals 2-5
5-7 oz of lean meat (turkey, chicken, fish,)
Salad (Basically just different types of lettuce, spinach, etc.)
Apple Cider Vinegar

Meal 6:
1/4 cup of 1% cottage cheese
Glass of wine

I will also supplement with fish oil caplets, a multivitamin, HOT-ROX, and zinc.

What do you think?

Also, I understand there is 1 cheat meal and 1 5-hr carb up per week. How should these be spread out?

Thanks a lot brotha. I’d appreciate anybody’s opinions on this.

43

Alcohol is a bad idea when you’re trying to maintain muscle mass on a severe cut. It decreases all sorts of good hormones (even further that they will be with the caloric deficit).

No need for the wine.

The carb up would most likely take place on the weekend and you should incorporate some type of total body workout beforehand I believe. Don’t take my advice, just buy Lyle’s book which is available off his site.

The cheat meal can probably be whenever, also best utilized on a workout day.

44

[quote]Nole wrote:
Ok I think im going to try this out

Would this work?

Meal 1:
6 Egg Whites
Spinach
2 slices cheese

Meals 2-5
5-7 oz of lean meat (turkey, chicken, fish,)
Salad (Basically just different types of lettuce, spinach, etc.)
Apple Cider Vinegar

Meal 6:
1/4 cup of 1% cottage cheese
Glass of wine

I will also supplement with fish oil caplets, a multivitamin, HOT-ROX, and zinc.

What do you think?

Also, I understand there is 1 cheat meal and 1 5-hr carb up per week. How should these be spread out?

Thanks a lot brotha. I’d appreciate anybody’s opinions on this.[/quote]

bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook

^^all your questions are answered within.

45

Right. You have to get the book to know how to calculate the diet.

Your food choices are fine, but I don’t know if they are in the proper amounts. Lyle gives the calculations to be made. Check my second post for a sample carbup.

46

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Thanks, Jason.

NOTE

By the way everyone, the reason why I’m posting a lot right now is because I’m now a statistic, one of millions of unemployed Americans; and there is only so much resume sending I can do.

Fifteen minutes ago, I just received a phone call from an HR person saying I haven’t been accepted for a position in one of the largest PR firm’s nutrition practice. Whatever! Only one applicant can fill one spot!

Moving on…

Jason, I am in agreement with you. The V-Diet is effective. But I just don’t understand what makes Flameout, Superfood, and protein powder superior to a large vegetable intake, a serving of salmon, trout, mackerel, or sardines, and other low-fat protein items.

I’d like to discuss this with Chris in the V-Diet forum, but I will not be some big pest that tries to derail a service that he is offering in a very generous way.

Just as an aside, I’m going to start posting more cautiously on the net. I’m no longer in the mood to defame or negatively criticize people in print anymore if it’s not called for.

[/quote]

I don’t think it is superior. But the idea behind it is simplicity. Loads of protein, along with just enuf carbs and fat. If I was advising say - my mother - on a solid food diet the questions and possibilities would come rolling in faster than I could knock them down. “Can I have this?”, “What about that?” “If I can have salmon can I have fish and chips instead?”. Okay maybe not quite but point made. I think the user-friendliness factor is the advantage but frankly I beleive a solid food plan would be just as good if not better.

47

[quote]Nole wrote:
Ok I think im going to try this out

Would this work?

Meal 1:
6 Egg Whites
Spinach
2 slices cheese

Meals 2-5
5-7 oz of lean meat (turkey, chicken, fish,)
Salad (Basically just different types of lettuce, spinach, etc.)
Apple Cider Vinegar

Meal 6:
1/4 cup of 1% cottage cheese
Glass of wine

I will also supplement with fish oil caplets, a multivitamin, HOT-ROX, and zinc.

What do you think?

Also, I understand there is 1 cheat meal and 1 5-hr carb up per week. How should these be spread out?

Thanks a lot brotha. I’d appreciate anybody’s opinions on this.[/quote]

Depending on how much body fat you have, you either going to have one or two cheat meals. If you’re very lean, you will not get any cheat meals but you will have a carb refeed during the weekend.

The hardest part of the diet is not the diet itself (it’s basically a psmf diet with probably a bit more protein) but coming off the diet. You have to buy and read the book because Lyle spent nearly half of the book explaining how to come off the diet properly.

Btw, you don’t really need to have 6 meals, you can have 3 bigger meals, unless you want to call 1/4 cup of cottage cheese filling =)

48

1/4 cup of cottage cheese is about two mouthfuls.

Get the book.

I felt like I had to &*%$ and @#$% all day today after my carbup. Anyone every experience this?

Here it is:
Meal 1
6 egg whites
1 cup of Trader Joe’s Soy Cluster Cereal
3 Trader Joe’s Flax Waffles
1/2 cup maple syrup
1/4 cup raisins

Meal 2 (at IHOP)
Egg whites
Ham
Hash browns
2 Harvest Grain pancakes
A ton of different syrups

My pants are now falling off of me. :slight_smile:

49

[quote]JMAX wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Thanks, Jason.

NOTE

By the way everyone, the reason why I’m posting a lot right now is because I’m now a statistic, one of millions of unemployed Americans; and there is only so much resume sending I can do.

Fifteen minutes ago, I just received a phone call from an HR person saying I haven’t been accepted for a position in one of the largest PR firm’s nutrition practice. Whatever! Only one applicant can fill one spot!

Moving on…

Jason, I am in agreement with you. The V-Diet is effective. But I just don’t understand what makes Flameout, Superfood, and protein powder superior to a large vegetable intake, a serving of salmon, trout, mackerel, or sardines, and other low-fat protein items.

I’d like to discuss this with Chris in the V-Diet forum, but I will not be some big pest that tries to derail a service that he is offering in a very generous way.

Just as an aside, I’m going to start posting more cautiously on the net. I’m no longer in the mood to defame or negatively criticize people in print anymore if it’s not called for.

I don’t think it is superior. But the idea behind it is simplicity. Loads of protein, along with just enuf carbs and fat. If I was advising say - my mother - on a solid food diet the questions and possibilities would come rolling in faster than I could knock them down. “Can I have this?”, “What about that?” “If I can have salmon can I have fish and chips instead?”. Okay maybe not quite but point made. I think the user-friendliness factor is the advantage but frankly I beleive a solid food plan would be just as good if not better.
[/quote]

I agree. In theory, you could achieve the same goals by eating whole foods with the same macronutrient profiles. However, very very few people have the discipline to pull something like this off. The V-Diet turns dieting into a mindless process.

For me, I would have lasted 2 days on the Rapid Fat Loss plan. With the V-Diet, I didn’t have to think about food since my meals for the next 28 days were already set.

Now, post-diet is a different story. I hope Chris writes something up to address this.

50

Guys, I’m using more of a hybrid between this and Lyle’s CKD diet. I am eating about 1700 calories per day, but a 60/40 fat-protein ratio and a smaller refeed every 7-10 days. I continue to lift intensely 4 times per week.

I can go down to the 1000 calorie level, but I am also concentrating on gym performance and career performance as I still want to look as “athletic” as possible after this diet while being able to perform at work.

Another reason why I have higher calories is to make sure I’m in ketosis with the fat intake. I want my body to be a “fat burner”. I consume about 18g of fat per meal, so after my body burns those, it burns body fat.

In two days, my body has already begun a transformation. And NO, it’s not mostly water weight as I had very little glycogen and water in my body when I began. I lost 5 pounds in 2 days, and I can tell there’s a lot of fat lost because of the mirror, the way my clothes fit, and the muscle being exposed where it wasn’t just a few days ago. I’m telling you- it’s not all water and glycogen weight I dropped.

Usually when I deplete glycogen and drop water weight, the “hard to lose” places in my body are still fatty. I’m actually losing in these “hard to lose places”.

51

I ran the RFL as a category 1 (15% BF and under) for 13 days. I started at 201 and ended at 183. After my carb up, I was 197. A couple days later with the bloat gone, I was 191 and stabilized there. So I lost 10 pounds.

I used Ephedrine and Caffeine and ate about 1.75-2g protein/lb LBM from very lean meats/fishes and casein. With a depletion workout to start the diet and a very large carb up at the end over a few days. Other than that, vegetables, berries, vitamins, and 10g fish oil a day. That’s it.

I lost some strength on all lifts that recovered within about about a month to previous PR levels. I may have lost up to a pound of muscle, but it may have just been glycogen. I lost a very large and very noticeable amount of fat. It was an extremely effective diet but extremely taxing.

I’m glad that Lyle’s work is becoming more popular on this forum. I’ve been touting a lot of stuff and some of the ideas I learned on the MI forum and bodyrecomposition on here for several months but gave up recently because of the negativity and dogma.

52

Also, the caloric requirements are misleading. Most of us are lean, weight training males or females. In which case, 1.5-2g protein/lb LBM is recommended, which is a lot of fucking protein.

I’ll be honest, I doubt I could have done the diet without the EC stack.

53

Actionjeff,

Thanks for your contribution.

I do the diet as a category-2 dieter. Category-1 dieting is more brutal because you have to go through the diet for - I think - something like 10 to 13 days without a carb-up or cheat meal.

The diet has worked like a charm for me both times. I haven’t lost any strength, nor have I gained any; I attribute this to scaling training back to twice per week.

It took you a month to restore strength? That’s a bit of time.

I’ve done the same thing you did; high-rep workouts in the beginning of the diet.

What’s the MI forum?

What negativity and dogma are you speaking of?

54

Solid thread Brick.

An honest question - do you never get run-down or even sick when running your kcals that far below maintenance? I see your plan only calls for twice-weekly training but still…

55

Thank you, Chillain.

I haven’t felt sick on the diet for either stint. During the first week on either stint - ESPECIALLY the first few days - I felt somewhat depressed. It was a sense of unease, kind of like dysthymia, a mild depression.

Right now, I’m in the middle of my third week on it and I feel fine. It’s almost like my body adapted to this level of intake. My hunger is down now. But I’ll tell you, the hunger goes through the roof the day of and after a carbup or cheat meal. My carbup is tonight and I’m VERY excited; when you are such a restricted diet, cheat meals and carbups are like discovering a whole new pleasure.

56

AMEN to that…I get so exited for refeed/carb up days that I unintentionally wake up early the day of…and that’s usually on a Saturday! I also plan my shopping list days in advance :slight_smile:

57

I love refeed days. It’s something to look forward to, and it keeps me focused on my diet throughout the week knowing that I have to earn the refeed. A day or 2 after my refeeds I always feel a bit low, mentally and physically, but that goes away about a day later.

58

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Actionjeff,

Thanks for your contribution.

I do the diet as a category-2 dieter. Category-1 dieting is more brutal because you have to go through the diet for - I think - something like 10 to 13 days without a carb-up or cheat meal.

The diet has worked like a charm for me both times. I haven’t lost any strength, nor have I gained any; I attribute this to scaling training back to twice per week.

It took you a month to restore strength? That’s a bit of time.

I’ve done the same thing you did; high-rep workouts in the beginning of the diet.

What’s the MI forum?

What negativity and dogma are you speaking of? [/quote]

I trained twice a week too.

A month is a big of time. I also peaked before doing the diet, took a couple weeks at maintenance ish, and then jumped into the diet. So strength was bound to drop down quite a bit compared to previous 1RM PR levels after losing all of that weight. If I was a more advanced trainee it probably would have taken longer than the month or so that it did to start hitting the same numbers for reps again at a lower BW. That’s just the way it is.

59

Actionjeff,

What is the MI forum?

What negativity and dogma were you speaking of? Negativity and dogma from T-Nation posters against Lyle’s writings?

60

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Actionjeff,

What is the MI forum?

What negativity and dogma were you speaking of? Negativity and dogma from T-Nation posters against Lyle’s writings? [/quote]

It’s the “mean” forum:

monkeyisland.lylemcdonald.com

the body recomposition forum is the “nice” forum :wink: