[quote]SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.[/quote]
[quote]SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
[/quote]
Only mentions “affordability credits”, not any of the other provisions in the bill. Also, please show me where ID checks or other forms of enforcement are mandated. Otherwise it is a toothless politcal measure that does nothing to prevent illegals from taking advantage of the bill.
[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
Only mentions “affordability credits”, not any of the other provisions in the bill. Also, please show me where ID checks or other forms of enforcement are mandated. Otherwise it is a toothless politcal measure that does nothing to prevent illegals from taking advantage of the bill.[/quote]
Exactly. It’s all squid ink. Also, Obama has been saying he wants to simply give illegals amnesty.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Sloth wrote:
This thread should be used as an opportunity for Obama/Pelosi supporters to voice their regrets. We’re here to welcome you.
Obama supporter here, not really regretful.
I’ll gladly acknowledge that the health plan is rotten. It contains hardly anything in the way of holding down costs, which means that in a few years we’ll be having the same health debate all over again. It contains the Stupak amendment – a wrenching compromise that won’t be the last wrenching compromise. And, inevitably, lots of perverse incentives.
As with cap-and-trade, I think legislation is a good idea, and then when I see what actually results from the political process it’s appalling and doesn’t solve the fundamental problems. If health care passes the Senate, Obama will pat himself on the back and call it a day, I think, and we will have done next to nothing in a very expensive way.
That said.
Government is already in the business of health care when it subsidizes employer-provided insurance. Government created the system we’re in today, where insurance is practically synonymous with health care. It shouldn’t be. Insurance is an expensive way to pay for expenses you expect (like routine checkups and exams) because you’re paying for administrative overhead as well as the cost of care. And third-party payment causes huge rises in health care costs because patients don’t have any way to know how much procedures cost (since they aren’t footing the bill). Real health care reform would attack this problem.
The Republicans aren’t doing that. Nobody is doing that.
If somebody in Congress would propose a real alternative to an insurance mandate, I’d be all for it. The ideas exist; Marty Feldstein and David Goldhill came up with similar plans. Heck, Milton Friedman had a plan in the 90’s. It would work, it would raise wages and expand access to health care, and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than the current House plan. But the Republican party seems to be more about stubbornness than innovation these days.
And the truth is, a strong public option – one strong enough to effectively function as single-payer health care – would also keep costs down, if the state insurer had the fiscal discipline to ration coverage. (Even Friedman acknowledged this.) It would be rationed, and so it would be command-and-control, and yes a bureaucrat with an MD would decide matters of life and death. But it would cut costs, and it would expand access to medical care. If that’s more likely to succeed politically than a more market-oriented reform, then that’s what we should do. If we actually give a damn about people getting health care in this country. Which I do.
It’s odd that the two things that work are on the so-called far right and far left, but if you think through it, that’s how it is.
So no, I don’t regret the passage of the bill. It might be a foundation for something real. The status quo is intolerable.
(I’m assuming we all pretty much agree that when it’s possible to eliminate serious suffering in our own country, we should do it, through government if necessary. Americans should not go hungry and they should not die from lack of medical treatment. I know there are people out there who disagree, but that seems very strange morally.)[/quote]
I agree that we should eliminate serious suffering in our own country, but not through government. I am a skeptic of the government and I do not believe that they would handle that power properly. If doctors were allowed perfect pricing it would greatly increase the amount of procedures that people need that are done on the cheap.
CUT HEALTHCARE COST…
- Tort Reform
- Tort Reform
- Tort Reform
Tort Reform would bring both parties together in regards to cost associated with the present proposal, not that I support the bill.
[quote]K2000 wrote:
Well the original question is a non-sequiter, because the government is not going to get involved with about 90% of American’s current insurance. But why do most Americans want health care reform?
Because most people can see that the private health insurance companies are raping people. Why do Americans support the Democratic health care reform proposals? Because the Republicans never proposed reform of their own, so pickin’s are slim.
BTW, the GOP finally released their own health care reform proposal. And lets face it, they had plenty of time to come up with their own proposal. According to Congressional Budget Office:
The Republican plan would help insure 3 million additional Americans by 2019
The Democratic plan would help insure 39 million additional Americans by 2019
The Republican plan would shave 68 billion dollars from the deficit
The Democratic plan would shave 104 billion dollars from the deficit
IMO, one of the main reasons that Republicans are back in the minority now, is because they revealed themselves to be poor legislators. Of course if your political philosophy revolves around the idea that “government can’t work” then obviously you’d be against passing a potentially effective piece of legislation that improves peoples’ lives, because it undercuts everything that you believe in.[/quote]
You have done it now; you are now labeled a LIBERAL. That is what they call it when they can not rationally discuss the topic with you
[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
Only mentions “affordability credits”, not any of the other provisions in the bill. Also, please show me where ID checks or other forms of enforcement are mandated. Otherwise it is a toothless politcal measure that does nothing to prevent illegals from taking advantage of the bill.[/quote]
There are 1017 more pages than the one I found…
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
K2000 wrote:
John S. wrote:
You do realize that we are using that money to fund social programs right?
I am against social programs so… we don’t need it.
Class of 2009 really has failed.
Man, I really hope your guys will campaign on ending social programs. You would never win anything bigger than a local election. Your political movement would go the way of the dodo bird.
Thanks in advance.
Yes, and I really hope your guys continue to dump endless amounts of money into them to “fix” problems that would not exist if these programs did not exist in the first place. If we cannot end it with legislation we will let natural law do the work for us because really these programs are destined to failure anyway.
How about another few billion for Cash for Clunkers…? You got some real geniuses on your side.[/quote]
Yeah and you also have these idiots that take a fictional book and claim it was from God, they have based a whole religion of free market. And at the end of the book all the problems that exist with socialism take over in capitalism also
That is true genius take fiction and base a religion on it.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
HG Thrower wrote:
SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
Only mentions “affordability credits”, not any of the other provisions in the bill. Also, please show me where ID checks or other forms of enforcement are mandated. Otherwise it is a toothless politcal measure that does nothing to prevent illegals from taking advantage of the bill.
Exactly. It’s all squid ink. Also, Obama has been saying he wants to simply give illegals amnesty.
[/quote]
What were Obama’s words?
Did he call a press conference and say:
“Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Tonight I would like to inform you that I would like to simply give illegals amnesty.”
I love how so many words are put into his mouth, and now, there are so many words being put into the bill, that don’t exist in the bill, and claims that things aren’t in the bill that actually are, because people know nobody actually checks…and no I’m not going to do the leg work for you anymore every time you all make an absurd comment saying:
person 1 “well _______ isn’t in the bill!!”
person 2 “yes it is”
person 1 “oh yea? well were is it? HA! I proved it’s not in the bill because you didn’t tell me where it is!”
person 2 “oh sorry, I went and had dinner and didn’t see your reply 'till now…here is exactly where that is _______”
Insurance did not start out being for profit; it started out pooling everybodyâ??s money, to pay for expensive procedures. One was started by Doctors and one by the hospitals one was Blue Cross and one was Blue Shield.
Insurance should be no more than an accounting procedure. It is all about counting beans. There is no need for profit or exorbitant salaries
Too bad the Supreme Court has ruled that any government program must be open to anyone.
So illegals for no other reason then that are allowed in this bill.
California tried to do get illegals off of the welfare programs, and Supreme court found it unconstitutional.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Insurance did not start out being for profit; it started out pooling everybodyâ??s money, to pay for expensive procedures. One was started by Doctors and one by the hospitals one was Blue Cross and one was Blue Shield.
Insurance should be no more than an accounting procedure. It is all about counting beans. There is no need for profit or exorbitant salaries
[/quote]
Start it up.
[quote]John S. wrote:
Too bad the Supreme Court has ruled that any government program must be open to anyone.
So illegals for no other reason then that are allowed in this bill.
California tried to do get illegals off of the welfare programs, and Supreme court found it unconstitutional.
[/quote]
That is not true.
[quote]SWR wrote:
John S. wrote:
Too bad the Supreme Court has ruled that any government program must be open to anyone.
So illegals for no other reason then that are allowed in this bill.
California tried to do get illegals off of the welfare programs, and Supreme court found it unconstitutional.
That is not true.[/quote]
I am afraid it is. Ask some of the nice posters from California and they will tell you it is true.
They can put in all the words they want, but at the end of the day, for the same reason they can get on all the welfare programs they will be allowed on this program too.
[quote]SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
[/quote]
I stand corrected, and I actually used a different site to verify that. One question is that section talks about receiving credits for paying for the coverage, it does not state that they will not be allowed to purchase the coverage by themselves. Illegals in a round about way will then get government assistance in getting health care.
[quote]John S. wrote:
SWR wrote:
John S. wrote:
Too bad the Supreme Court has ruled that any government program must be open to anyone.
So illegals for no other reason then that are allowed in this bill.
California tried to do get illegals off of the welfare programs, and Supreme court found it unconstitutional.
That is not true.
I am afraid it is. Ask some of the nice posters from California and they will tell you it is true.
They can put in all the words they want, but at the end of the day, for the same reason they can get on all the welfare programs they will be allowed on this program too.[/quote]
There are a ton of scenarios that would let every single illegal alien into the US with no way of ever denying anyone if “any government program must be open to anyone.”
[quote]SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
[/quote]
the hispanic caucus will not vote yes on the bill if this section is not removed…
and several democrats will not vote on it if it is removed…
im just sayin
Uh, oh looks like someone is pursuing amnesty.
SWR open mouth insert foot.
[quote]SWR wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
HG Thrower wrote:
SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
Section 246 on page 143.
Only mentions “affordability credits”, not any of the other provisions in the bill. Also, please show me where ID checks or other forms of enforcement are mandated. Otherwise it is a toothless politcal measure that does nothing to prevent illegals from taking advantage of the bill.
Exactly. It’s all squid ink. Also, Obama has been saying he wants to simply give illegals amnesty.
What were Obama’s words?
Did he call a press conference and say:
“Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Tonight I would like to inform you that I would like to simply give illegals amnesty.”
I love how so many words are put into his mouth, and now, there are so many words being put into the bill, that don’t exist in the bill, and claims that things aren’t in the bill that actually are, because people know nobody actually checks…and no I’m not going to do the leg work for you anymore every time you all make an absurd comment saying:
person 1 “well _______ isn’t in the bill!!”
person 2 “yes it is”
person 1 “oh yea? well were is it? HA! I proved it’s not in the bill because you didn’t tell me where it is!”
person 2 “oh sorry, I went and had dinner and didn’t see your reply 'till now…here is exactly where that is _______”[/quote]
[quote]John S. wrote:
Uh, oh looks like someone is pursuing amnesty.
SWR open mouth insert foot.[/quote]
Bwahaha! Talk about perfect timing!