11/26
Front squat:
157.5x5
180x3
200x4
135x10x4
I couldn’t finish the BBB work because my legs stopped working.
11/28
Press:
95x5
107.5x5
120x5
Chins:
BWx6x5
Nice front squatting. How do you find squatting on your lower back?
Ive been having issue with back squatting with my lower back, so Im thinking of changing to front squatting with a narrower stance as I think its The SI joint been irritated with my wide squatting style.
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[quote]theBird wrote:
Nice front squatting. How do you find squatting on your lower back?
Ive been having issue with back squatting with my lower back, so Im thinking of changing to front squatting with a narrower stance as I think its The SI joint been irritated with my wide squatting style.
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When I first got hurt it was squatting normally with a moderately wide stance. This was when I was doing SS and squatting around 300 lbs. I fell forward and probably should’ve bailed but caught the weight and heard/felt a cavitation in my low back. Very well could have been a disc, I was positive for a lot of disc orthos and had radiating symptoms for some time afterwards. Pretty much ever since then once my squat has got to around 3 plates my left SI joint flares up terribly bad. I was a chiro student at the time and getting it adjusted provided immediate relief for several hours but there is a clear dysfunction there so it always came back.
If you look at my front squats my hips still rise up before everything else. The Rippetoe style hip drive is an ingrained pattern that I’m trying very hard to get rid of because I’m certain this is causing tons of strain at L5/S1 and both SI joints. I also need to stop being so damned lazy with ab work.
As of right now squats and DLs all feel much better because I’m using my hips more than ever, but still not enough. The weight is also really light so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it. I feel the front squats in my legs and upper back mostly so that gives me confidence to continue doing them.
11/29
Deadlift:
195x5
225x3
250x10
Sumo DL:
185x10x5
Plate carry walks:
100x3
No video today, but here’s a picture of my passed out dog.
So as a chiro, would you suggest someone with possible SI and L-1/L-2 issues to stick away from back squats altogether? Does the width of the stance make much difference? Is there anything you can recommend to stabilize the SI joint?
Nice dog.
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[quote]theBird wrote:
So as a chiro, would you suggest someone with possible SI and L-1/L-2 issues to stick away from back squats altogether? Does the width of the stance make much difference? Is there anything you can recommend to stabilize the SI joint?
Nice dog.
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I think squats are precisely the thing that will help stabilize these regions. The problem is unless you have proper mobility and movement patterns then squats are dangerous. Stance width is highly individual based on the angle of the acetabulum and how the femoral head sits in it. I would recommend that you use a high bar and squat shoes if you have low back pathology, and never lift through pain.
I believe that I have good enough mobility with weightlifting shoes to spare the spine during a squat. I don’t, however, have the correct pattern ingrained due to how I originally learned (re-learned?) to squat. Honestly, now that I think about it I should probably do goblet squats as my BBB work do really groove a better pattern.
Is L1/L2 where your back hurts or do you have pain radiating into those dermatomes? Does your SI issue accompany sciatica? Any radiating pain can indicate a serious issue that should be monitored by a doctor (DC, DPT, MD, DO–I’m of course biased towards chiropractor).
Also be sure to look above and below the areas of pain as they are often the source of dysfunction. Lack of thoracic extension can cause excess lumbar extension which could easily be whats giving you problems in the L-spine and SI joints.
I don’t know if this helps, I’m just kind of spraying random thoughts at the screen right now. Proper assessment will be necessary to root out your specific issues. Just remember, strengthening an area that exhibits instability will always eventually lead to injury.
Thanks for your help. I have returned to doing very light squats(50 kg) and yet still managed to hurt my lower back. This time it feels more on the right side and around back and side of the hip. The area is tender to touch with force with my fingers. My pelvis feels twisted. Most times I don’t feel any pain, but if I move quickly a certain way I then feel some pain. Interestingly enough, stretching my hip flexors gives me some very show relief. Stretching my hamstrings also gives me some relief. I recently have purchased a pair of weightlifting shoes.
What “pattern” of squatting do you suggest? I don’t think I have sciatica. I have seen various chiros and none can give me a proper diagnosis. One suggested some facet arthritis. Most tell me to stop squatting. I have had the best results from a osteopath, who only “cracks” my thoracic spine and nothing else. Unfortunately I live in a different town now so I can’t see him as often.
So do you suggest strengthening by doing squats or maybe I should avoid them?
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[quote]theBird wrote:
Thanks for your help. I have returned to doing very light squats(50 kg) and yet still managed to hurt my lower back. This time it feels more on the right side and around back and side of the hip. The area is tender to touch with force with my fingers. My pelvis feels twisted. Most times I don’t feel any pain, but if I move quickly a certain way I then feel some pain. Interestingly enough, stretching my hip flexors gives me some very show relief. Stretching my hamstrings also gives me some relief. I recently have purchased a pair of weightlifting shoes.
What “pattern” of squatting do you suggest? I don’t think I have sciatica. I have seen various chiros and none can give me a proper diagnosis. One suggested some facet arthritis. Most tell me to stop squatting. I have had the best results from a osteopath, who only “cracks” my thoracic spine and nothing else. Unfortunately I live in a different town now so I can’t see him as often.
So do you suggest strengthening by doing squats or maybe I should avoid them?
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You can take a video of your squat and compare your shin angle to the angle of your back. They should be approximately the same. You can squat down and have someone place pvc pipe along the side of your shin and back and if the pipes aren’t parallel then you have a mobility problem, which is typically accompanied by a stability problem. Squatting with the shins and back in parallel is more spine sparing.
The pattern I’m referring to is more of a muscle recruitment pattern. If you watch my squats you can see the descent, then hips come up, then weight shifts forward, then chest rises, then the weight ascends. I need to get to the point where the hips and chest rise at the same time which I can do if I really focus but I always revert back to the ingrained pattern with fatigue or heavier weight.
Some chiros unfortunately only do enough on their exams to justify adjusting the patient. I would also be weary of any doc who tells you to stop doing an exercise that isn’t unnecessarily dangerous (like behind the back presses or upright rows). If your diagnosis is facet arthralgia it is because your lumbar spine is being overextended. The lumbar spine is designed to transfer force between the above and below segments, not to really move around a lot. Your hips feeling twisted could indicate an asymmetrical tightness. Could be the glutes, flexors, hamsprings, or even the capsule. DeFrancos Agile 11 (something like that) is a good start to work on the lower body. I would aim for a minimum twice a day, the more the better. Also PVC/foam roll the T-spine in extension and hammer your lats hard with the roller or a lax ball.
I’m out of time now but can answer more questions later. Don’t squat through pain. Try goblet squats and see how those feel.
Once again, thanks for the help.
Za Dom, Spemni!
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Did some experimenting with a broom today and learned some interesting things about myself. First, I’ve discovered that my preferred stance width is too narrow and my hips feel much tighter in the hole when they are wider. Placing my hands wider on the bar also felt much better and allowed me to remain more upright.
This picture is my squat in Chucks. The blue line indicates I have hit depth. The yellow line shows that I am carrying the weight too high on my back causing it to transition anteriorly when my torso leans forward. The 2 gray lines are what I was referring to before. I think the best way to squat is with these lines parallel to each other. Mine clearly form an angle here due to a lot of issues, but ankle mobility has a lot to do with it. See next post for why I think this.
Threw on the shoes and tried out various stances with a wider stance and wider hands feeling preferable again. Adding the extra bit of dorsiflexion does a lot of neat things upstream here. First, it immediately increases my shin angle which gives more slack in the hamstrings and allows me to push my knees out more. Doing this keeps my pelvis more neutral and helps maintain a more upright back. Notice how the gray lines are pretty much parallel here while the blue line indicates I’m still hitting depth. The yellow line shows me that with this stance I should use a low bar position since the weight is still sitting too far anteriorly.
So, when I do return to squatting this seems to be the best stance for me. Others with more mobile hips, ankles, and T-spines will be able to better utilize a high bar squat but at this time it doesn’t seem smart for me to attempt this style. It is a good goal to work towards because everyone should be able to squat both ways.
I’m glad I did this, and probably should’ve done it a while ago. I’m going to use my deload next week to really try to hammer in my position with the front squats.
12/2
Bench:
135x5
152.5x3
172.5x10
Chins:
BWx6,6,6,6,5,4,4,2
Lots of shoulder mobility stuff with a band
I misloaded everything. I should probably try harder to not do that.
12/16
After a horrible deload week and an even worse “5” week I’m back at the gym on schedule.
Bench:
137.5x3
157.5x3
177.5x8
115x10x3
Chins:
BWx5,5,5,5,5,5,5
Random shoulder mobility with band and facepulls
I’m not doing deloads any more unless I’m incredibly gassed. I find them highly demotivating.
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
I’m not doing deloads any more unless I’m incredibly gassed. I find them highly demotivating.[/quote]
When I did 531 for a year I found that some deload weeks were a little demotivating, although it was good as I usually dont deload enough.
Maybe, deload every 8 weeks instead of 4?
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This deload was after 2 cycles and I don’t think it was necessary. I think right now since I’m regaining strength and the weights are still low I can get away with 3 or more cycles without deloads. I’m guessing that eventually I’ll need it as written.
12/17
Front Squat:
155x3
177.5x3
200x5
135x10,10,10,10,10
Farmers Walks:
3x with 90s
12/28
Press:
92.5x3
105x3
117.5x7
85x10,10,10
75x10,10
Pull ups:
BWx6,6,6,6,6
12/29
Dead:
190x3
217.5x3
245x10
Farmers walks:
3x with 95s
Had to use straps on 2nd and 3rd trips because my callouses were about to rip open
Actually did some abs today:
3 sets of Pallov presses
3 sets of leg raises
Good work. How is the back going?
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