Racism Hits My Front Yard

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lumbernac wrote:
I think black racists are more entertaining than the kkk and the like.

Just look at luis farrakan.

Oh and im sorry X but regardless, of this gentle pacifism displayed by the africans, they horribly suck today. They aren’t gentle or pacifist by any means today, they dont deserve to even own a machete b/c it will probably be used to hurt somebody else.

Judging by your posts, I wouldn’t trust YOU with any sharp objects or even behind the wheel of a car for that matter. If you are the symbolic representation of progress in the human race, how can you possibly speak so negatively of anyone else?

ProX, I dont have any weapons and don’t have a use for them either. You wouldnt trust me w/ sharp objects? thats great. When have i ever threatened anybody ? Look at my posts if you think you may find something i dont. Thats my point really. Africa is a violent, and almost lawless place and it STILL needs civilization and i dont have to be perfect to point this out b/c people are dying there all the time and they shouldnt have to die just b/c they are members of a different tribe than the guys down the street but africans look at people that way unfortunately. [/quote]

You do realize that most African tribes had were highly civilized and had their own kinds of laws in place before European colonists arrived (Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart” comes to mind)and that in some cases violence between tribes/ethnicities escalated as a result of European colonization (thinking of the recent violence in Rwanda), right?

102


Agree 100%

103

Preface: I am in a hurry to get to the gym, but felt the need to contribute my $0.02. Spare me the BS if I missed a period, comma, etc. Read it if you chose to and understand the point I am trying to make.

Every minority group in this country has an organization pushing their race’s agenda with their own version of the crap printed in that paper. If you made a chart of what each group was actually promoting, including the Aryans, and what they thought would make the world a better place, quite a bit of it is the same. Each group stands around trying to show how one group exploited another while simultaneously trying to downplay their own group?s transgressions.

Then they try to demonstrate the superiority of their group by arguing their ancestors were better, and by extension themselves, because they developed a specific technology or function of society before another. If all of you self-professed ?enlightened? ones want to make a difference, you could start by leaving all of the baggage behind. Realize that regardless of his or her skin color, every person in this country has been the victim of racism. Whether it was due to Affirmative Action, a hiring manager with an agenda, or some ignorant person that decided their skin color was responsible for his problems.

Every race/culture has contributed something to the world, just as they have also been guilty of perpetrating some terrible injustice on another group. It is not the lone province of the ?white man? traveling the world bent on destruction and domination. It is simply that circumstance and geography have conspired to heap a great deal of good fortune upon Europeans. Had what we know as ?Africans? and ?Europeans? been given different continents, this discussion would be the same. We would just be sitting on different sides of the discussion then we are now.

For those that are convinced that your race?s historical accomplishments prove your superiority, try reading Jared Diamonds ?Guns, Germs, and Steel? to get a better understanding of what contributed to the success of one race?s domination of the world. It had nothing to do with their skin color and had everything to do with geography. Any society that had the means would have done the same, as history shows that they did, it is just a matter of on what scale.

Racism, slavery, genocide, etc. are not limited to one race or country. Go through any race or country?s history long enough, and you will find examples of all of this in every one. The difference is the support systems and technology that enabled it to happen in a short period of time and on a much larger scale. Hitler wasn?t the first person to commit genocide. Colonial settlers weren?t the first people to displace an indigenous people. Americans don?t hold the patent on racial discrimination.

Every race has things that they should be proud of and some that they should be ashamed of. You can?t control any of that and shouldn?t spend your life metaphorically chained to it.

Weak closing I know, but doing squats today is much more important to me than impressing people with a literary flourish.

104

i started the thread a little vent, and to see if others had a similar experience and what they did in response. also, after it happened, i thought it would be interesting to post since some people on the forum probably have labeled me a racist, or one of those people who want to pretend that racism does not exist, or that black people should just “forget about it”, simply because i have argued with some of the liberals and black members of the board about various race related political views.

see, the conventional wisdom these days, is either somebody agrees with everything you say, or they do not, and are therefor on the other side of the fence and can be labeled.

nobody is allowed to be able to see both points of view, it is unacceptable that you can be wright on some things and wrong on others. pick a side, conservative christian white republican, or liberal white/minority democrat. got to be one or the other. no choice, live with it. pick a side and fight to the finish. never give ground on anything.

i really believe that some of the posters on this board, especially the more verbose and learned/educated ones who are very active on the politics forum, truly believe they are EVER wrong about ANYHING.

though i wish this had not happened, i thought it was an opportunity to show that my opinions are not one sided, that i can see things from both points of view. when i lived in a rural white neighborhood, my mailbox was knocked down and garbage was thrown on my lawn at least once a week. when i moved into a larger about 60% black city, i got jumped on more than one occasion by groups of black males who did not like seeing me with my wife(BTW, i think “one on one fight” is a concept unheard of in urban black society). i have been harassed to the point of resignation by a white racist supervisor who did not like the make-up of my family. i can go on and on, showing stupidity on both sides as it has affected my personal life.

oh, BTW, don’t beat yourself up trying to get prof. x to sympathize with me. see, he does not like me, and i am not black, so obviously i am not worthy.

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good post tango.

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I am sure his kids “deal” with this issue every day. For them, it has probably never been so blatant. Racism is a reality that will exist even if it is ignored. That doesn’t make someone wrong for not addressing racism at the point that we deem is appropriate. I cannot account for everyone’s parenting skills, nor can I determine when it’s “right” to introduce such a volatile subject to children. I can say that the “Terrorist” prematurely stripped the parent of that perogative because he now MUST deal with the issue.

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tango, as i said, that was a good post and i agree with much of it. what bothered me about this most was that A, my children were exposed to it, and B. the type of person/persons who would read or distribute such a paper are of the sort who are capable of some pretty low down shit, and the fact they were in an all black neighborhood doing this to me meant they were looking for trouble. you think if it was after dark and they saw my kids and their mom walking down one of the poorly lighted streets (which they do often as they walk to their cousins house about a block away all the time) that they would have not taken the opportunity to do something really bad?

that is why it hit home so hard with me.

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[quote]heavythrower wrote:
good post tango. [/quote]

Ditto.

109

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

oh, BTW, don’t beat yourself up trying to get prof. x to sympathize with me. see, he does not like me, and i am not black, so obviously i am not worthy.

[/quote]

What the fuck? Dude, I don’t even KNOW you. I would have to do a search on your name and past posts to even get a concept of who you are. Why would I waste time hating someone I don’t even know? Beyond any of that, your skin color doesn’t have shit to do with any interaction we may have had in the past. Until I am confronted with race, it is a non-issue. I treat every nationality daily.

There are people from all over the world in the US military and we all consider ourselves “brothers” to a degree. Not only have you given your past posts way too much credit, but your overestimate my caring for “who” you are at all.

You called me “militant” in one of your posts in this thread. What makes a black man “militant”? Why can’t a white man be equally “militant”?

110

I’d like to throw my .02 into the whole racism thing. #1 I am not racist. I like all people based on thier individual merits and also dislike people based on the individual. I would date and marry a black girl, an orental girl, an indian girl etc… And I would have no problem with either of my sisters dating or marying out of thier race.

Situational racism or the classic times where people TODAY use it, is understandable, and is not hate based but logic based. If I walked through an inner city black ghetto, I would not feel 100% safe, I would be on my gaurd and I would be careful. Does it mean that I hate anyone who lives there? No, but statistically, it is a dangerous place. Likewise, if I went into a Biker bar and 10-15 huge guys with tats and goatees were in there, I would be very careful.

Now in all likeleyhood, if I ran into a few black kids in the inner city and ended up interacting with them, it would in all reality come out ok 99% of the time. Again, I am basing this on my ability to interact with other humans and the belief that people are inherintly good. Same goes for the biker bar, i’d probably end the night drinking with the blokes and enjoying myself.

Now I don’t know if this qualifies as racism, I don’t think it does, mainly because I don’t hate other groups of people. Does being wary of certain situations, make someone racist? I.E. the arab guy sitting next to you on the plane, Myself, I’m not going to be taking a nap on that flight.

It’s definately not right to judge or classify peoples behavior patterns before you personally know them, based on race and myths. It is ok to to use caution when interacting with people based on situations, where you take race (or other classifications)into account. My example here would be, take your inner city black kids (late teens to young adults)and change them into an older black man and woman, and i’m not likley to have any concern or act guarded in any way should they approach me.

Also if you change the situation but keep the people the same, The same concerns are not there as well, if I saw the same black kids in a wal mart or at a park etc… I would not be concerned or act any differently towards them than any other human being.

V

111

[quote]USAFMTI wrote:
Again, this situation didn’t suirprise me at all. I would guess that most black kids, with the exception of possibly those most recently born in the 90’s, were raised with the knowledge that shit like that happens and will happen. I am more surprised that his kids made it to that age without ever dealing with that issue before. Maybe the wind is changing…or perhaps some people just ignore what’s out there if they don’t deal with it personally.

I am sure his kids “deal” with this issue every day. For them, it has probably never been so blatant. Racism is a reality that will exist even if it is ignored. That doesn’t make someone wrong for not addressing racism at the point that we deem is appropriate. I cannot account for everyone’s parenting skills, nor can I determine when it’s “right” to introduce such a volatile subject to children. I can say that the “Terrorist” prematurely stripped the parent of that perogative because he now MUST deal with the issue.
[/quote]

yeah, they deal with it on some levels everyday, but not to such an extreme. like when some of the kids in their class ask why their mom is black and dad is “white”(if you are not one in this town you are the other, lol), or they get asked what they are, black or white.

little stuff like that.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
heavythrower wrote:

oh, BTW, don’t beat yourself up trying to get prof. x to sympathize with me. see, he does not like me, and i am not black, so obviously i am not worthy.

What the fuck? Dude, I don’t even KNOW you. I would have to do a search on your name and past posts to even get a concept of who you are. Why would I waste time hating someone I don’t even know? Beyond any of that, your skin color doesn’t have shit to do with any interaction we may have had in the past. Until I am confronted with race, it is a non-issue. I treat every nationality daily.

There are people from all over the world in the US military and we all consider ourselves “brothers” to a degree. Not only have you given your past posts way too much credit, but your overestimate my caring for “who” you are at all.

You called me “militant” in one of your posts in this thread. What makes a black man “militant”? Why can’t a white man be equally “militant”? [/quote]

hahaha, your buttons are sooo easy to push x. in other forums i have been part of you can change the color of a passage or add an emoticon to indicate j a joke, or toungue and cheek type meaning. here you cannot(or at least i do not know how to). i wondered after i posted that if i should add a LOL or something to the end, but i thought it was obvious that i was just tweaking you.

but you obviously care more than you want to admit if you reacted so knee jerk(just as i thought you would) to it.

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[quote]heavythrower wrote:
USAFMTI wrote:
Again, this situation didn’t suirprise me at all. I would guess that most black kids, with the exception of possibly those most recently born in the 90’s, were raised with the knowledge that shit like that happens and will happen. I am more surprised that his kids made it to that age without ever dealing with that issue before. Maybe the wind is changing…or perhaps some people just ignore what’s out there if they don’t deal with it personally.

I am sure his kids “deal” with this issue every day. For them, it has probably never been so blatant. Racism is a reality that will exist even if it is ignored. That doesn’t make someone wrong for not addressing racism at the point that we deem is appropriate. I cannot account for everyone’s parenting skills, nor can I determine when it’s “right” to introduce such a volatile subject to children. I can say that the “Terrorist” prematurely stripped the parent of that perogative because he now MUST deal with the issue.

yeah, they deal with it on some levels everyday, but not to such an extreme. like when some of the kids in their class ask why their mom is black and dad is “white”(if you are not one in this town you are the other, lol), or they get asked what they are, black or white.

little stuff like that. [/quote]

It’s all little stuff; we make it into big stuff. We all deal with racism in some way shape or form (either the receiving end or giving end) and some more than others. We all need to learn from the experiences and progress toward a society that accepts differences and embraces individuality. We may never get there, but we definitely can take steps in that direction. It’s about choices. What do you choose to do from this point that will positively impact your “world”? That’s all any of us can do, make choices and accept consequences.

AF MTI…Out

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

You called me “militant” in one of your posts in this thread. What makes a black man “militant”? Why can’t a white man be equally “militant”? [/quote]

Not to take any sides in the underlying discussion, but they’re usually called other things - usually less nice.

Personally, I don’t think anyone should be judged solely on the color of his skin or his ethnic background – either judged good or bad.

BTW, please don’t take this post as endorsing anything written by anyone else on this thread, other than anything that expressed revulsion at the actions that were related in the initial post.

115

[quote]Dorso wrote:

You do realize that most African tribes had were highly civilized and had their own kinds of laws in place before European colonists arrived (Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart” comes to mind)and that in some cases violence between tribes/ethnicities escalated as a result of European colonization (thinking of the recent violence in Rwanda), right?

[/quote]

Ok that would be plausible but the Europeans have been out for a while yet the violence continues. It would be their fault but at some point w/ the continuing violence you have to look for other explanations. In a sense i do agree with you that Africa still has its tribal mindset , hence the violence. You can’t mix things like guns and tribal mindsets it just wasnt meant to happen but these africans need to get civilized and stop killing each other.

I sometimes wonder if they have any sense of humanity w/ the things i hear on the news and would doubt it altogther if not for some africans that i have met. Its a horrible place where people are dying. Anybody w/ any morals whatsoever would hate that. Im sorry but Africa sucks and it isnt really white people’s fault you have to accept responsibility for what you do, end of story.

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[quote]heavythrower wrote:
tango, as i said, that was a good post and i agree with much of it. what bothered me about this most was that A, my children were exposed to it, and B. the type of person/persons who would read or distribute such a paper are of the sort who are capable of some pretty low down shit, and the fact they were in an all black neighborhood doing this to me meant they were looking for trouble. you think if it was after dark and they saw my kids and their mom walking down one of the poorly lighted streets (which they do often as they walk to their cousins house about a block away all the time) that they would have not taken the opportunity to do something really bad?

that is why it hit home so hard with me. [/quote]

Heavythrower- I wasn’t so much speaking to you, but rather the others that chimed in with their opinions. I am very protective of my wife and imagine I will be even more so of my children.

As a father, it is your responsibility to protect your children from that kind of trash and your concerns are that of a good parent. I couldn?t take issue with that. Those clowns have no business in that neighborhood and should be dealt with accordingly. Did anyone contact the authorities to see if anything could be done? If nothing else, it could be construed as multiple counts of littering. They may be able to get around that by using the “newspaper” format, but it warrants checking into.

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[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Dorso wrote:

You do realize that most African tribes had were highly civilized and had their own kinds of laws in place before European colonists arrived (Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart” comes to mind)and that in some cases violence between tribes/ethnicities escalated as a result of European colonization (thinking of the recent violence in Rwanda), right?

Ok that would be plausible but the Europeans have been out for a while yet the violence continues. It would be their fault but at some point w/ the continuing violence you have to look for other explanations. In a sense i do agree with you that Africa still has its tribal mindset , hence the violence. You can’t mix things like guns and tribal mindsets it just wasnt meant to happen but these africans need to get civilized and stop killing each other.

I sometimes wonder if they have any sense of humanity w/ the things i hear on the news and would doubt it altogther if not for some africans that i have met. Its a horrible place where people are dying. Anybody w/ any morals whatsoever would hate that. Im sorry but Africa sucks and it isnt really white people’s fault you have to accept responsibility for what you do, end of story.[/quote]

Although the official colonial presence of European nations is mostly gone, their imposed social, political, and religious systems still remain in many cases. These leave enduring conflicts, as do the artificial boarders created by European nations in the Middle East that divide nations or tribes of people over different nation-state boarders.

I don’t agree with your conclusion that a “tribal mindset” is responsable for all of the violence. Logically, I wouldn’t credit tribalism with causing any more violence than occurred before European colonialism. From what little I know, tribal violence has always occured in many areas of Africa but to a lesser degree than after European involvement. In “Things Fall Apart” (fiction mind you) Achebe describes a war in which the main character’s tribe was gloriously victorious. It killed 12 members of an enemy tribe while only losing about three from its own.

I also disagree with your statement that, “these africans need to get civilized and stop killing each other,” because I think it is based on two false premises:

  1. It presumes that Africans were not civilized before Europeans arrived and I think that is false. They may not have had the same architecture, trade, and religion, but they certainly had complex social and political systems that maintained morals and laws.

  2. You statement presumes that “civilized” people are not as violent. What about the Mongols, the Greek city states (particularly the Spartans), the Roman Empire, and the Nazis? Maybe that is different because they killed others. Then, what about the Chinese during the Warring States Period, the Americans during the Civil War, and the Serbs and Croats in the early 1990s, and Iraqis today? These are all civilized societies aren’t they?

I definately agree that it isn’t white people’s fault that there is violence in Africa, Although I do think European colonialism did contribute to the problem by making ethnic differences between Africans more of a factor in class distinctions and by introducing a social and political system in which large armies and large-scale warfare were the standard. Conquering people is bad.

Anyway I’m not saying you are wrong. Our opinions just differ a little.

118

All of the cultures you mentioned Dorso were very violent and were more or less civilized. The spartans were just a bunch of militant people. So were the mongolians and the greeks and romans. What separates this from all of them and even the romans is that their wars never really stop. Have you ever wondered where the term ethnic cleansing has came from? I’ll give you 3 guesses.

What makes these people uncivilized in my mind are :

A. Their wars dont really stop. As mentioned above , this would lead me to dis-beleive your claim that war in Africa was brought on by the Europeans b/c a long-lasting war w/ little gains on either side is a war fought just for fighting and most likely one caused by a lot of hatred.

B. The viscousness displayed in it. Yes all wars are horrible but they should take a vacation or something and decide not to fight for a few days. Heck, mabey they will stop " ethnically cleansing " each other.

Dude if they could put away the AK’s they would go a long long way towards modernizing their country and as it stands, looking at all the continents, all were plundered by the europeans to some extent but only africa is like this. Why? I dont think you or I know the reason and i dont want to mischaracterize the place b/c im sure that it has several really cool cities that arent marked by violence but by and large it seems to be a chaotic place. Thats what CNN tells me anyway - what do i know?

119

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
tango, as i said, that was a good post and i agree with much of it. what bothered me about this most was that A, my children were exposed to it, and B. the type of person/persons who would read or distribute such a paper are of the sort who are capable of some pretty low down shit, and the fact they were in an all black neighborhood doing this to me meant they were looking for trouble. you think if it was after dark and they saw my kids and their mom walking down one of the poorly lighted streets (which they do often as they walk to their cousins house about a block away all the time) that they would have not taken the opportunity to do something really bad?

that is why it hit home so hard with me. [/quote]

Word…

120

[quote]lumbernac wrote:
Dorso wrote:

You do realize that most African tribes had were highly civilized and had their own kinds of laws in place before European colonists arrived (Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart” comes to mind)and that in some cases violence between tribes/ethnicities escalated as a result of European colonization (thinking of the recent violence in Rwanda), right?

Ok that would be plausible but the Europeans have been out for a while yet the violence continues. It would be their fault but at some point w/ the continuing violence you have to look for other explanations. In a sense i do agree with you that Africa still has its tribal mindset , hence the violence. You can’t mix things like guns and tribal mindsets it just wasnt meant to happen but these africans need to get civilized and stop killing each other.

I sometimes wonder if they have any sense of humanity w/ the things i hear on the news and would doubt it altogther if not for some africans that i have met. Its a horrible place where people are dying. Anybody w/ any morals whatsoever would hate that. Im sorry but Africa sucks and it isnt really white people’s fault you have to accept responsibility for what you do, end of story.[/quote]

Have you ever heard of Paul Rusesabagina?