R.I.P. Rachel Corrie

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
The point is that irgun/stern never was accepted by the broad population.
[/quote]

Since when are fascist parties EVER accepted by the “broad population”? As if they were concerned about being accepted.

Einstein and company’s letter to the NY Times in 1948 was a warning to America that a fascist/terrorist organization that founded Israel was masquerading as a party of peace and freedom to win over influence and support from America. Today they are the Likud party of Israel or neoconservatives in the US…

[i]"The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement…"[/i]
http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/einstein/nyt_letter.html

Traditional conservatism has been hijacked and ruined by the neocons, yet even the dupes don’t call themselves neoconservatives. The sad part is the “Republican dupes” who were taken in by these jackass traitors, don’t know that most of them used to be the same elitist left Democrats they love to hate – now called “the Marxist right” (a communist/fascist bastard combo if you will)
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/January2004/0104Raimondo.html

The “broad population” in the US doesn’t accept neoconservatism (if they even know what it means), yet its here – like a giant political tapeworm…

82

[quote]pat36 wrote:
That bitch wasn’t a hero. First she was an idiot. Second she was a terrorist sympathizer which further enforces the fact that she was an idiot.

Perhaps, if Israel’s peace loving neighbors did not declare war on them in 1967, Israel would not have kicked there ass and took their land. If Israel was smart, on day 7 they would have gathered all those in the population who do not believe in Israel’s sovereignty and bussed them to the borders.

The palestinians have had chance after chance to set up their own nation. And they continue to get that chance. But what do they do? The follow with more terrorist attacks. They do not want peace, they want Israel gone and Jerusalem as the capitol of their great islamic nation. They will not stop the violence.

If somebody chooses to martyr themselves for a bunch of assholes, I thank them for seizing to breath air better suited for others.[/quote]

Yet Israel is consistently voted the most hated country in the world.

The fact remains Rachel Corrie was an unarmed person trying to block an Israeli bulldozer from destroying a farmer’s fucking home.

Its America’s attachment to the “asshole of the world” that will ultimately be our undoing.

Since we don’t really get much news about Israel here, I thought you might want to catch up on some of the most recent news from the “gold standard of democracy” in the Middle East.

Israel to raze Palestinian homes with robot bulldozers
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2003-10-30-robot-destruction_x.htm

Israel faces corruption ‘epidemic’

Israeli Police Chief Resigns in Scandal
Israeli police head quits in scandal involving underworld figures; latest scandal to hit gov’t
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/18/ap/world/mainD8NC83QO0.shtml

Israel recalls ‘naked ambassador’
Israel has recalled its ambassador to El Salvador after he was found drunk and naked apart from bondage gear.

Reports say he was able to identify himself to police only after a rubber ball had been removed from his mouth.

AG decides to add another rape count to draft indictment against Israeli President Moshe Katsav
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/844601.html

Ex-Israeli Official Convicted Of Sex Crime
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/31/world/main2416120.shtml

Israel tops the world in rate of malicious Internet activity

Experiments on elderly echo Nazis [classic]
October 25, 2006
JERUSALEM: Three Israeli doctors are under arrest over illegal experiments on thousands of patients, including an elderly concentration camp survivor who narrowly escaped being a victim of the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele.

These human trials involving mostly old and mentally disturbed patients - some of whom died - echo those in the Auschwitz concentration camp in World War II…

11 yr Old Palestinian girl used by Israel as human shield

Report: “68 Palestinian women gave birth on Israeli checkpoints, 33 infants and 4 women died”

Humiliation and Child Abuse at Israeli Checkpoints – Strip-Searching Children
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir03152007.html

UNICEF: 2006 One of The Worst Years for Palestine Children
http://wafa.ps/english/body.asp?id=8807

Bishops equate Israel’s actions to Holocaust

UN to open permanent probe on Israel

Criticism of U.S. swells in Israel
JERUSALEM - After years of supporting the Bush administration’s policy in the Middle East, a growing number of Israelis are openly criticizing the United States for creating more, not less, danger for Israel.
http://www.newsobserver.com/110/story/532407.html

American senators to visit Israel
“We formed the committee four years ago, when I was Chairman of the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. It is the only joint committee between the American Congress and another country,” said Steinitz.

DeLay: I quit for Israel
Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel and conservative causes.
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/100806.html

Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for…

83

Thanks for the back-up JustTheFacts!

Adamsson, if you bothered to read the link I posted about the Herut, you’d probably end up learning something. For the last time: A MURDEROUS ORGANIZATION WILL NEVER BE SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLIC. That’s the reason the Irgun didn’t have the support of the majority, and that’s the reason why the horrors of the neo-con’s military machine are not supported by the US public. If you can’t see the connection, there’s nothing more I can do for you.

84

[quote]lixy wrote:
Thanks for the back-up JustTheFacts!

Adamsson, if you bothered to read the link I posted about the Herut, you’d probably end up learning something. For the last time: A MURDEROUS ORGANIZATION WILL NEVER BE SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLIC. That’s the reason the Irgun didn’t have the support of the majority, and that’s the reason why the horrors of the neo-con’s military machine are not supported by the US public. If you can’t see the connection, there’s nothing more I can do for you. [/quote]

So, what was the point…? Should i quote militant, islamic groups in palestine… and after talk about how they aren’t supported? What is your point? What are you trying to say? :slight_smile: It is nice that you found a black-and-white-thinking mate in justthe"facts" though, rationality and objectivity isn’t that important after all, as long as one can bash Israel… :wink:

85

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:

Yet Israel is consistently voted the most hated country in the world.

The fact remains Rachel Corrie was an unarmed person trying to block an Israeli bulldozer from destroying a farmer’s fucking home.

Its America’s attachment to the “asshole of the world” that will ultimately be our undoing.

Since we don’t really get much news about Israel here, I thought you might want to catch up on some of the most recent news from the “gold standard of democracy” in the Middle East.

Israel to raze Palestinian homes with robot bulldozers
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2003-10-30-robot-destruction_x.htm

Israel faces corruption ‘epidemic’

Israeli Police Chief Resigns in Scandal
Israeli police head quits in scandal involving underworld figures; latest scandal to hit gov’t
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/18/ap/world/mainD8NC83QO0.shtml

Israel recalls ‘naked ambassador’
Israel has recalled its ambassador to El Salvador after he was found drunk and naked apart from bondage gear.

Reports say he was able to identify himself to police only after a rubber ball had been removed from his mouth.

AG decides to add another rape count to draft indictment against Israeli President Moshe Katsav
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/844601.html

Ex-Israeli Official Convicted Of Sex Crime
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/31/world/main2416120.shtml

Israel tops the world in rate of malicious Internet activity

Experiments on elderly echo Nazis [classic]
October 25, 2006
JERUSALEM: Three Israeli doctors are under arrest over illegal experiments on thousands of patients, including an elderly concentration camp survivor who narrowly escaped being a victim of the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele.

These human trials involving mostly old and mentally disturbed patients - some of whom died - echo those in the Auschwitz concentration camp in World War II…

11 yr Old Palestinian girl used by Israel as human shield

Report: “68 Palestinian women gave birth on Israeli checkpoints, 33 infants and 4 women died”

Humiliation and Child Abuse at Israeli Checkpoints – Strip-Searching Children
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir03152007.html

UNICEF: 2006 One of The Worst Years for Palestine Children
http://wafa.ps/english/body.asp?id=8807

Bishops equate Israel’s actions to Holocaust

UN to open permanent probe on Israel

Criticism of U.S. swells in Israel
JERUSALEM - After years of supporting the Bush administration’s policy in the Middle East, a growing number of Israelis are openly criticizing the United States for creating more, not less, danger for Israel.
http://www.newsobserver.com/110/story/532407.html

American senators to visit Israel
“We formed the committee four years ago, when I was Chairman of the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. It is the only joint committee between the American Congress and another country,” said Steinitz.

DeLay: I quit for Israel
Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel and conservative causes.
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/100806.html

Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for Israel - Tom DeLay says he quit the U.S. Congress to fight for…
[/quote]

You know, I am beginning to think you just might be a tiny bit antisemitic. What did the Jews ever do to you anyway?

86

[quote]lixy wrote:
Thanks for the back-up JustTheFacts!

[/quote]

JTF usually has some pretty cool links.

I didn’t realize Israel is such a fucked up place. I thought they were an island of Democracy. I’m sure we don’t get any truth here from the MSM.

Great links, JTF!

87

From one of the links by JTF:

"St. Louis resident Hedy Epstein, whose parents and extended family perished in Nazi camps, and whose story is featured in the Academy Award winning documentary “Into the Arms of Strangers: Stories of the Kindertransport,” reports being strip searched three years ago following her participation in nonviolent protests in the West Bank. Epstein, who was 79 at the time, describes being forced to bend over for an Israeli official to search her internally.

The strip searches appear to be illegal under numerous statutes. The Geneva Conventions, to which Israel is a signatory, prohibit: “Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment” and specifically emphasize: “Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour”

Article 2 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child states: “No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy”

I realize that they’re terrified of suicide bombers but it seems that they are going a little far.

88

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
From one of the links by JTF:

"St. Louis resident Hedy Epstein, whose parents and extended family perished in Nazi camps, and whose story is featured in the Academy Award winning documentary “Into the Arms of Strangers: Stories of the Kindertransport,” reports being strip searched three years ago following her participation in nonviolent protests in the West Bank. Epstein, who was 79 at the time, describes being forced to bend over for an Israeli official to search her internally.

The strip searches appear to be illegal under numerous statutes. The Geneva Conventions, to which Israel is a signatory, prohibit: “Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment” and specifically emphasize: “Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour”

Article 2 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child states: “No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy”

I realize that they’re terrified of suicide bombers but it seems that they are going a little far.

[/quote]

Yea, they care about their children:

89

The fact is that 25-35% of the Palestinians are our CHRISTIAN brethren. Any true Christian should be horrified by what Israel does to the Palestinians on a daily basis. The Palestinians don’t want an Islamic state- they simply want a country of their own on the land that they’ve lived on for centuries. As 1 in 3 Palestinians is Christian, they [muslim Palestinians] have a lot more respect for the teachings of Jesus than Israel does.

Our shitty media here portrays the Israeli military as responding to the militant Palestinians, when in fact it is the opposite way around- the Palestinians are responding to the brutal military occupation of the Israelis. There’s a reason why in Europe the mainstream population supports the Palestinian cause more than the Israeli cause. The only reason our mainstream population sees the Israelis as our “allies” (and I use that term very loosely) is because of the bullshit media propaganda shoved down our throats 24/7 instead of objective reporting. And of course you have dumbass Evangelical Christians running around like the loud-mouthed idiots that they are.

Nice little video about those “peaceful” Jews who continually victimize Palestinians in the West Bank and then act shocked when the Palestinians (how dare they!) fight back:

90

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
From one of the links by JTF:

"St. Louis resident Hedy Epstein, whose parents and extended family perished in Nazi camps, and whose story is featured in the Academy Award winning documentary “Into the Arms of Strangers: Stories of the Kindertransport,” reports being strip searched three years ago following her participation in nonviolent protests in the West Bank. Epstein, who was 79 at the time, describes being forced to bend over for an Israeli official to search her internally.

The strip searches appear to be illegal under numerous statutes. The Geneva Conventions, to which Israel is a signatory, prohibit: “Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment” and specifically emphasize: “Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour”

Article 2 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child states: “No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy”

I realize that they’re terrified of suicide bombers but it seems that they are going a little far.

[/quote]

  1. Could you, with your legal expertice tell me how a bomb-search at an airport or border-control is supposed to happen? Since you think that most of these searches in norwegian, american and swedish airports are breaking the geneva conventions…?

  2. “No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy”

When did border controls become arbitrary and unlawful? :wink:

Please… people… DO NOT try to use international law in “your” favor when you don’t seem to understand even the most basic principles of it, ok? It just makes you look even more… uneducated.

91

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
The fact is that 25-35% of the Palestinians are our CHRISTIAN brethren. Any true Christian should be horrified by what Israel does to the Palestinians on a daily basis. The Palestinians don’t want an Islamic state- they simply want a country of their own on the land that they’ve lived on for centuries. As 1 in 3 Palestinians is Christian, they [muslim Palestinians] have a lot more respect for the teachings of Jesus than Israel does.

Our shitty media here portrays the Israeli military as responding to the militant Palestinians, when in fact it is the opposite way around- the Palestinians are responding to the brutal military occupation of the Israelis. There’s a reason why in Europe the mainstream population supports the Palestinian cause more than the Israeli cause. The only reason our mainstream population sees the Israelis as our “allies” (and I use that term very loosely) is because of the bullshit media propaganda shoved down our throats 24/7 instead of objective reporting. And of course you have dumbass Evangelical Christians running around like the loud-mouthed idiots that they are.

Nice little video about those “peaceful” Jews who continually victimize Palestinians in the West Bank and then act shocked when the Palestinians (how dare they!) fight back:

[/quote]

What about media in “mainstream” europe being leftist and onesided too…? :wink: What about the truth lying a place inbetween? Neither Israel or Palestina is solely a victim. Stating that is just… ignorant. what you, the “fact”-king and lixy try… is infantile and childish. “hey, let us polarize the discussion, blame Israel for everything and demonize Israel… THAT is going to lead anywhere”…

I could go on a week long rant about corruption inside Palestine… Just look at Arafat’s wife… she lives a quite happy life at the moment, on norwegian, swedish etc money. Look at Hamas, killing political opponents and critical palestinian journalists…

Just look at violence during election periods… Ofcourse, I imagine that Israel is to blame for this too? :wink: It is far easier to blame Israel than to take responsibility for own actions… For instance, how about not engaging in peak terrorist activity just before the election in Israel…

92

[quote]lixy wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
The irony is killing me.

Please refrain from reading my posts then. I’d hate to be responsible for your death in any way.

Now if you’ll care to explain what exactly do you find ironic, maybe we could get somewhere. Are you under the impression that “hero” is somehow a trademark of Marvel?

As for someone who stands in front of a bulldozer - I’m not feeling the “hero” label there…

The guy in front of the tank in Tiananmen wasn’t a hero for you? He, and his family, were erased soon after the incident.

What, then do you consider a hero? Isn’t it someone who stands out for the unprotected, disfortunate and segregated against? Isn’t it someone willing to give his/her life in defense of his cause and against all odds?

Heroism \Her"o*ism, n. [F.h’e]ro["i]sme.] The qualities characteristic of a hero, as courage, bravery, fortitude, unselfishness, etc.; the display of such qualities.
[1913 Webster]

Few things I include in my own definition of heroes: Heroes are never offensive; If odds are on you favour, then the act you perform would hardly qualify as heroic.

Corrolary to the above: US troops in Iraq are not heroes,

  • [/quote]

The irony is that your self-important, “I’m so far beyond the rest of you fools in intelligence” rant includes misspelling the word literature, among others you dip-shit.

Even funnier, this site has a SPELL-CHECK shit-for-brains!

BTW, Let me take you to my favorite bar here in NY - lots of Iraq vets there. I’d love to see them stomp your pathetic ass when you tell them they “aren’t heroes”.

Oh wait - you’d never do that, because you’re yet another self-centered, sniveling little cunt who would NEVER have the balls to say shit like that to a soldier’s face. Just another Internet bitch.

Fuck off you worthless piece of shit.

93

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
So, what was the point…? Should i quote militant, islamic groups in palestine… and after talk about how they aren’t supported? What is your point? What are you trying to say? :slight_smile: It is nice that you found a black-and-white-thinking mate in justthe"facts" though, rationality and objectivity isn’t that important after all, as long as one can bash Israel… :wink: [/quote]

You seem like a reasonable and enlightened fellow arguing in good faith, so I’ll be honest here: I didn’t have a point. I just pointed out that your reply to JTF’s Einstein letter was fallacious because the Irgun matured politically into a legitimate political party that seems to be getting all the votes these days thanks to the violence of our friends Hamas.

I agree with you that the truth is somewhere in the middle today; Both people have suffered immensely from the others. So currently, it’s hard to tell the victims from the agressors. However, going back in time reveals who the victims were.

Granted, other Arab countries acted like jerks when they didn’t acknowledge Israel’s right to exist back in the days. But that’s simply because they don’t give a damn about the plight of the Palestinians. Also, remember that Hamas initially was supported by Israel because it countered the secular and popular PLO.

The issue doesn’t belong on a thread because it’s so complex. However, there’s no way you can say that the people living in Palestine had any responsability in the sparking of the conflict. They were just trying to get by farming land when millions of Jews poured on their lands. If one restricts the debate to modern times, then yes, telling the victim from the bully is impossible.

94

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
The irony is that your self-important, “I’m so far beyond the rest of you fools in intelligence” rant includes misspelling the word literature, among others you dip-shit.

Even funnier, this site has a SPELL-CHECK shit-for-brains!

BTW, Let me take you to my favorite bar here in NY - lots of Iraq vets there. I’d love to see them stomp your pathetic ass when you tell them they “aren’t heroes”.

Oh wait - you’d never do that, because you’re yet another self-centered, sniveling little cunt who would NEVER have the balls to say shit like that to a soldier’s face. Just another Internet bitch.

Fuck off you worthless piece of shit. [/quote]

Oh, so typos and name-calling are your only weapons now?

Hear me baby; my browser has built-in spell-check as well, but I don’t bother 'cause I use too much slang, abreviations and the like in my posts. So it’s a waste of time as far as I’m concerned. However, if I mispell some words consistently, I’d love to hear about it to improve my spelling.

As for the “litterature” bit, you might wanna do a bit of reading on this Encyclopedia Britannica page:

litterature engagee:

(French: ?engaged literature?), literature of commitment, popularized in the immediate post-World War II era, when the French existentialists, particularly Jean-Paul Sartre, revived the idea of the artist’s serious responsibility to society. The idea is an application to art of a basic existentialist tenet.

Just for the record, Sartre is one the two only people to have ever refused a Nobel prize. The other one is North Vietnamese Le Duc Tho, who did so in protest of Kissinger’s prize (one of the brains of the Viet’ massacres).

Most historians agree with the fact that Kissinger’s diplomacy had nothing to do with the end of the war, but it was rather the rise of dissent among American soldiers and civilians that made the war unsustainable.

Back to the topic, I spell litterature as such in memory of Sartre and his work. How’s that for snippy?

95

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
The fact is that 25-35% of the Palestinians are our CHRISTIAN brethren. Any true Christian should be horrified by what Israel does to the Palestinians on a daily basis. The Palestinians don’t want an Islamic state- they simply want a country of their own on the land that they’ve lived on for centuries. As 1 in 3 Palestinians is Christian, they [muslim Palestinians] have a lot more respect for the teachings of Jesus than Israel does.

Our shitty media here portrays the Israeli military as responding to the militant Palestinians, when in fact it is the opposite way around- the Palestinians are responding to the brutal military occupation of the Israelis. There’s a reason why in Europe the mainstream population supports the Palestinian cause more than the Israeli cause. The only reason our mainstream population sees the Israelis as our “allies” (and I use that term very loosely) is because of the bullshit media propaganda shoved down our throats 24/7 instead of objective reporting. And of course you have dumbass Evangelical Christians running around like the loud-mouthed idiots that they are.

Nice little video about those “peaceful” Jews who continually victimize Palestinians in the West Bank and then act shocked when the Palestinians (how dare they!) fight back:

[/quote]

By all means, please pass that pipe. They don’t want an islamic state they just want their own little sovereign piece of dirt? You mean like what we and the rest of the world has been trying to do for them since the Carter administration, but they piss on every attempt to help them? I am having a hard time typing for shaking with laughter.

They can have their own sovereign country right now. All they have to do is to stop firing rockets into Israel, stop sending suicide bombers and recognize Israel’s right to exist. That’s it stop the violence and recognize Israel.

Here is why it will never happen. The palestinians believe Jerusalem belongs to them as their God given right. They futher believe if they show a good faith effort in trying to fight Israel, that God will come down in His might chariot and finish the fight for them.

I say if the palestinians want Israel land and Israel wants the land to, let them duke it out. Just have a good old fashion war and get it over with. This tit -for-tat shit they are doing will never get anywhere. Let’em fight and the loser has to leave. That’s fair. particularly since the palestinians have the backing of the entire middle east.

96

[quote]pat36 wrote:
They don’t want an islamic state they just want their own little sovereign piece of dirt? You mean like what we and the rest of the world has been trying to do for them since the Carter administration, but they piss on every attempt to help them? [/quote]

Total BS!

There were never a honest peace proposal from the Israel/US side. Except of course the ill-fated Yitzak Rabin plan.

Have you EVER looked at what Israel was proposing? It’s ludicrous. Scattered pieces of land with no airspace sovereignty, no sovereignty over the roads connecting them and no solution for the refugees problem; that’s not a proposal, that’s a joke! On a side note, have you ever heard of UN resolution 242?

Go get yourself a copy of PBS’s “Israel and Palestine” documentary to better grasp the details involved in each step.

If Israel was interested in peace, they’d give back the Golan height to Syria and agree to weeks old proposal by the Arab league. Did you look at it? Why, in your opinion did Olmert reject it?

97

[quote]pat36 wrote:
…
[/quote]

I’m actually pissed by your response.

The US government and the Israeli government are blocking an international concensus which has universal support (there’s even support from part of the Israeli Jewish population).

That shows in every single UN resolution issued to date. Heck, why is it that the US is viewed as a threat to world peace in every country? Why is it that Israeli government actions are hated by the majority of the world? Coincidence? Jealousy? Didn’t think so…

98

Pat-

There never has been a SINCERE peace proposal by Israel. The last one, that Arafat rejected, was a joke. Of course our joke of a media never reported the true settlement offered by Israel (had to learn about it from the European media), but the proposal was ludicrous. Israel offered the Palestinians a state of their own in the West Bank but didn’t offer them control of the highways linking the different towns…what kind of an idiot would accept that? Funny how this wasn’t reported in our media…wonder why.

I’m not a cheerleader for the Palestinians, although my heart aches when I enviosion the brutality that the Palestinian Christians suffer. Last year Bethlehem was under home curfew for 113 days…meaning that in 1 out of every 3 days of the year any Palestinian seen in the streets of Bethlehem would be shot. Neither side is perfect, although to an unbiased, objective person (which I was when I started learning about this conflict a few years back) the Palestinians are clearly the oppressed group here.

Your idea of a war between Israel and the Palestinians, without any outside influence, will never happen because the Isrealis know that mano-e-mano the Palestinians would kick their asses.

99

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
…

I’m actually pissed by your response.

The US government and the Israeli government are blocking an international concensus which has universal support (there’s even support from part of the Israeli Jewish population).

That shows in every single UN resolution issued to date. Heck, why is it that the US is viewed as a threat to world peace in every country? Why is it that Israeli government actions are hated by the majority of the world? Coincidence? Jealousy? Didn’t think so…[/quote]

I am glad your pissed. Maybe you’ll start thinking. Or maybe you’ll suicide bomb somebody.

Looks to me the only people trying to avoid peace are the Palestinians. Maybe, just maybe they shoud stop calling for the destruction on Israel. That might help.

100

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Pat-

There never has been a SINCERE peace proposal by Israel. The last one, that Arafat rejected, was a joke. Of course our joke of a media never reported the true settlement offered by Israel (had to learn about it from the European media), but the proposal was ludicrous. Israel offered the Palestinians a state of their own in the West Bank but didn’t offer them control of the highways linking the different towns…what kind of an idiot would accept that? Funny how this wasn’t reported in our media…wonder why.

I’m not a cheerleader for the Palestinians, although my heart aches when I enviosion the brutality that the Palestinian Christians suffer. Last year Bethlehem was under home curfew for 113 days…meaning that in 1 out of every 3 days of the year any Palestinian seen in the streets of Bethlehem would be shot. Neither side is perfect, although to an unbiased, objective person (which I was when I started learning about this conflict a few years back) the Palestinians are clearly the oppressed group here.

Your idea of a war between Israel and the Palestinians, without any outside influence, will never happen because the Isrealis know that mano-e-mano the Palestinians would kick their asses. [/quote]

I am fine with that. Let them fight, but I seriously doubt the Palestinians would win. I am pretty sure they would lose, unless the world intervened and stayed the Israeli’s hand, which would likely happen if it were to come to that. Here’s you peaceful Palestinian governemnt. Nothing will bring them further from peace then this:

Proof that trying to create democracies out of ME countries is an incredibly stupid idea. Can’t argue with the people’s will here. I want peace with the middle east, not function democracies I could give a fuck about their form of government as long as it is not hostile toward us.