[quote]John S. wrote:
Alright thanks for clearing that up. There is one more question I have and please don’t take this as an insult because it is what I heard other people say about the Mormon church.
Is it true that now/one time they thought that if you where bad you had black skin and the better person you became you turned white, or is that the Jahova’s wittnesses I am thinking of.[/quote]
Let me clarify something: for a period of time in our church’s history, people of African descent were denied the Priesthood. They could be baptized and join the church, but the Priesthood was restricted to all other males. In 1976 or 1978 (I can’t remember off the top of my head), a revelation from our prophet declared that all men of all races had a right to hold the Priesthood.
Now, this is not a simple issue by any means, considering that Joseph Smith ordained black men to the priesthood (at least three that I could look up for sure), and it gets even crazier because Brigham Young and a few other prophets made statements to the effect that the blacks being denied the priesthood was because of their unfaithfulness prior to being born (in the Mormon view, we existed as spirits prior to being born into physical bodies), and many members took that up. The only problem with that is, that, as far as I can tell nothing to that effect was ever promulgated as official doctrine, regardless of how vehemently Brigham might have defended the idea.
So, if you’re asking, are Mormons racist? Individuals may be, but official church policy is definitely no. In fact, we were driven from Missouri very early in our history at least partly because of our anti-slavery position. Joseph Smith ran for President and advocated selling the slaves and using the funds to buy part of Africa for them to live in. Just a few thoughts in that direction. More can be read here: Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood - FAIR [/quote]
Thanks for informing me about the misinformation people where giving out.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t claim to know the full doctrine but encountered a lot of mormons when I was in the Army and mainly heard the breakdown from them. Is it true that mormons believe that when they die they get to be in the presence of God or in the highest place (VIP room, whatever you want to call it) as opposed to memebers of other religions that can get into heaven but just don’t get the good seats so to speak? >>>[/quote]They have three degrees of glory or levels of heaven. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms in descending order. Practically everybody goes to one of these three, but only those married in the temple (and some other stuff) become gods of their own planet corresponding in some way I can’t recall at the moment to the top of the three levels of this highest of the 3 heavens. You may have to reread that =]
Hell, or outer darkness as they call it, is only for “sons of perdition” which you really have to work at becoming by doing something really horrific like opposing the LDS church. Adolf Hitler is in the telestial kingdom (the lowest heaven). There are no daughters of perdition (except Sandra Tanner) because the women are needed to populate their husbands planets after he’s exalted into godhood but they cannot be resurrected unless called forth by a husband they are bound to in temple marriage. I may have a few details wrong, it’s been 20 years, but that should be pretty close.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t claim to know the full doctrine but encountered a lot of mormons when I was in the Army and mainly heard the breakdown from them. Is it true that mormons believe that when they die they get to be in the presence of God or in the highest place (VIP room, whatever you want to call it) as opposed to memebers of other religions that can get into heaven but just don’t get the good seats so to speak? >>>[/quote]They have three degrees of glory or levels of heaven. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms in descending order. Practically everybody goes to one of these three, but only those married in the temple (and some other stuff) become gods of their own planet corresponding in some way I can’t recall at the moment to the top of the three levels of this highest of the 3 heavens. You may have to reread that =]
Hell, or outer darkness as they call it, is only for “sons of perdition” which you really have to work at becoming by doing something really horrific like opposing the LDS church. Adolf Hitler is in the telestial kingdom (the lowest heaven). There are no daughters of perdition (except Sandra Tanner) because the women are needed to populate their husbands planets after he’s exalted into godhood but they cannot be resurrected unless called forth by a husband they are bound to in temple marriage. I may have a few details wrong, it’s been 20 years, but that should be pretty close.
[/quote]
I remember something along those lines and I remember asking my mormon colleague “so you’re saying that since you have done these certain things (he was married in the temple also) then you get to be in the highest presence of god (VIP room) but someone like Mother Teresa that dedicated their entire lives to serving a God and helping people wouldn’t?” “Yeah pretty much” that was definitely a major eye opener into the religion as a whole for me.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t claim to know the full doctrine but encountered a lot of mormons when I was in the Army and mainly heard the breakdown from them. Is it true that mormons believe that when they die they get to be in the presence of God or in the highest place (VIP room, whatever you want to call it) as opposed to memebers of other religions that can get into heaven but just don’t get the good seats so to speak? >>>[/quote]They have three degrees of glory or levels of heaven. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms in descending order. Practically everybody goes to one of these three, but only those married in the temple (and some other stuff) become gods of their own planet corresponding in some way I can’t recall at the moment to the top of the three levels of this highest of the 3 heavens. You may have to reread that =]
Hell, or outer darkness as they call it, is only for “sons of perdition” which you really have to work at becoming by doing something really horrific like opposing the LDS church. Adolf Hitler is in the telestial kingdom (the lowest heaven). There are no daughters of perdition (except Sandra Tanner) because the women are needed to populate their husbands planets after he’s exalted into godhood but they cannot be resurrected unless called forth by a husband they are bound to in temple marriage. I may have a few details wrong, it’s been 20 years, but that should be pretty close.
[/quote]
I remember something along those lines and I remember asking my mormon colleague “so you’re saying that since you have done these certain things (he was married in the temple also) then you get to be in the highest presence of god (VIP room) but someone like Mother Teresa that dedicated their entire lives to serving a God and helping people wouldn’t?” “Yeah pretty much” that was definitely a major eye opener into the religion as a whole for me.[/quote]
No matter how good a person you are…you cannot get to the highest level of the Mormon Celestial Kingdom without a LDS temple sealing.
Many church members were temple sealed to additional wives after death (called baptisms for the dead) to help populate their own planet. Joseph Smith was posthumously sealed to several wives.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t claim to know the full doctrine but encountered a lot of mormons when I was in the Army and mainly heard the breakdown from them. Is it true that mormons believe that when they die they get to be in the presence of God or in the highest place (VIP room, whatever you want to call it) as opposed to memebers of other religions that can get into heaven but just don’t get the good seats so to speak? >>>[/quote]They have three degrees of glory or levels of heaven. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms in descending order. Practically everybody goes to one of these three, but only those married in the temple (and some other stuff) become gods of their own planet corresponding in some way I can’t recall at the moment to the top of the three levels of this highest of the 3 heavens. You may have to reread that =]
Hell, or outer darkness as they call it, is only for “sons of perdition” which you really have to work at becoming by doing something really horrific like opposing the LDS church. Adolf Hitler is in the telestial kingdom (the lowest heaven). There are no daughters of perdition (except Sandra Tanner) because the women are needed to populate their husbands planets after he’s exalted into godhood but they cannot be resurrected unless called forth by a husband they are bound to in temple marriage. I may have a few details wrong, it’s been 20 years, but that should be pretty close.
[/quote]
I remember something along those lines and I remember asking my mormon colleague “so you’re saying that since you have done these certain things (he was married in the temple also) then you get to be in the highest presence of god (VIP room) but someone like Mother Teresa that dedicated their entire lives to serving a God and helping people wouldn’t?” “Yeah pretty much” that was definitely a major eye opener into the religion as a whole for me.[/quote]
No matter how good a person you are…you cannot get to the highest level of the Mormon Celestial Kingdom without a LDS temple sealing.
Many church members were temple sealed to additional wives after death (called baptisms for the dead) to help populate their own planet. Joseph Smith was posthumously sealed to several wives.[/quote]
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ve often wondered why people start, or get involved, with threads like these.
They almost always…and I mean ALWAYS digress into other people telling other people what they believe…and stating it as “fact”.
Mufasa[/quote]Nobody gets everything right, but you’re welcome to check out anything I say somebody else believes Mufasa my old buddy ol pal.
WTF is wrong with polygamy, so long as it’s between consenting adults?
I’m not Mormon, hell, I’m not even Christian, but I’d like to see the fedgov go after the millions of baby daddy’s in US ghettos who have multiple kids with multiple women with as much veracity as they have towards Mormons.
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
WTF is wrong with polygamy, so long as it’s between consenting adults?
I’m not Mormon, hell, I’m not even Christian, but I’d like to see the fedgov go after the millions of baby daddy’s in US ghettos who have multiple kids with multiple women with as much veracity as they have towards Mormons.[/quote]
Mormons usually own homes, easier to find them then on the corner of the 7/11.
As well, there is a lot things that are wrong that happen between consenting adults. Drug sales, assisted suicide, prostitution, fighting, adultery, &c.
couple questions about the word of wisdom and temple recomends:
is it true that mormons can drink kava and still keep their temple recommend?
i dont care if it is condemned or whether or not one should or should not drink kava - I only care if it is A-OK as far as a temple recommend goes.
Also, now that pot is semi-legal for some people in California - is that ok too if you live in CA? ie can a Californian with a doctors note, smoke pot and keep their temple recommend?
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t claim to know the full doctrine but encountered a lot of mormons when I was in the Army and mainly heard the breakdown from them. Is it true that mormons believe that when they die they get to be in the presence of God or in the highest place (VIP room, whatever you want to call it) as opposed to memebers of other religions that can get into heaven but just don’t get the good seats so to speak? >>>[/quote]They have three degrees of glory or levels of heaven. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms in descending order. Practically everybody goes to one of these three, but only those married in the temple (and some other stuff) become gods of their own planet corresponding in some way I can’t recall at the moment to the top of the three levels of this highest of the 3 heavens. You may have to reread that =]
Hell, or outer darkness as they call it, is only for “sons of perdition” which you really have to work at becoming by doing something really horrific like opposing the LDS church. Adolf Hitler is in the telestial kingdom (the lowest heaven). There are no daughters of perdition (except Sandra Tanner) because the women are needed to populate their husbands planets after he’s exalted into godhood but they cannot be resurrected unless called forth by a husband they are bound to in temple marriage. I may have a few details wrong, it’s been 20 years, but that should be pretty close.
[/quote]
I remember something along those lines and I remember asking my mormon colleague “so you’re saying that since you have done these certain things (he was married in the temple also) then you get to be in the highest presence of god (VIP room) but someone like Mother Teresa that dedicated their entire lives to serving a God and helping people wouldn’t?” “Yeah pretty much” that was definitely a major eye opener into the religion as a whole for me.[/quote]
LOL! Any Mormon who believes that is way off base. We believe that everyone, no matter who they are, will have the opportunity to accept the gospel and receive its ordinances, in this life or the next.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
No matter how good a person you are…you cannot get to the highest level of the Mormon Celestial Kingdom without a LDS temple sealing.
Many church members were temple sealed to additional wives after death (called baptisms for the dead) to help populate their own planet. Joseph Smith was posthumously sealed to several wives.[/quote]
That’s not true- babies who die before the age of accountability (generally 8, but there are exceptions) are automatically exalted in the celestial kingdom.
Also, the sealings are done for the dead, but baptism for the dead is another ordinance. We believe in the efficacious nature of vicarious proxy, or, that we can extend the blessings we’ve received to those who’ve passed on. Joseph Smith actually had hundreds of posthumous sealings, all of which have been dissolved.
As for the reasons for polygamy, none were officially given, and though I could speculate, I choose not to because there’s no point.
[quote]koffea wrote:
couple questions about the word of wisdom and temple recomends:
is it true that mormons can drink kava and still keep their temple recommend?
i dont care if it is condemned or whether or not one should or should not drink kava - I only care if it is A-OK as far as a temple recommend goes.
Also, now that pot is semi-legal for some people in California - is that ok too if you live in CA? ie can a Californian with a doctors note, smoke pot and keep their temple recommend?
[/quote]
I’m honestly not sure. I have heard that some can, but that’s ultimately something the individual would talk with their bishop.
Also not sure. I’ve heard both ways and in between opinions on this. I don’t imagine too many Bishops being okay, but it is california, so who knows. I will see if there’s been any official instruction from the General Authorities.
[quote]koffea wrote:
couple questions about the word of wisdom and temple recomends:
is it true that mormons can drink kava and still keep their temple recommend?
i dont care if it is condemned or whether or not one should or should not drink kava - I only care if it is A-OK as far as a temple recommend goes.
Also, now that pot is semi-legal for some people in California - is that ok too if you live in CA? ie can a Californian with a doctors note, smoke pot and keep their temple recommend?
[/quote]
I’m honestly not sure. I have heard that some can, but that’s ultimately something the individual would talk with their bishop.
Also not sure. I’ve heard both ways and in between opinions on this. I don’t imagine too many Bishops being okay, but it is california, so who knows. I will see if there’s been any official instruction from the General Authorities.
thanks for your response. its kind of confusing actually. my wife is lds and I have simply come to the conclusion that I will never understand the word of wisdom. I think it is contains a cultural perceptions that are difficult for outsiders to understand.
Board Question #37347
i asked about kava because it is drunk by several members of her ward, and was really popular in her singles ward (years ago). since kava is none habit forming i guess that makes it ok?
Board Question #59081 - appears to advocate breaking the 9th commandment?
The JW’s of USA are surely the idiots of my old faith it seems… And what is this set number of convertions they have to make? When I went out, it usually went like this:
Us: Knock Knock
They open.
Us: Hey, we’re here to talk about th-
Them:You’re those Jehovarrr thingies right?
Us: Yup!
Them:Not interested!
Us: Oh well, have a nice day then!
But I guess it doesn’t work like that in the states?
[quote]storey420 wrote:
I remember something along those lines and I remember asking my mormon colleague “so you’re saying that since you have done these certain things (he was married in the temple also) then you get to be in the highest presence of god (VIP room) but someone like Mother Teresa that dedicated their entire lives to serving a God and helping people wouldn’t?” “Yeah pretty much” that was definitely a major eye opener into the religion as a whole for me.[/quote]
LOL! Any Mormon who believes that is way off base. We believe that everyone, no matter who they are, will have the opportunity to accept the gospel and receive its ordinances, in this life or the next. [/quote]
But by that answer aren’t you saying yes it is true until they receive the gospel? In other words yes without receiving the gospel mother theresa doesn’t get to go to the highest level of heaven like somebody that got married in the temple and met the other criteria?
[quote]storey420 wrote:
But by that answer aren’t you saying yes it is true until they receive the gospel? In other words yes without receiving the gospel mother theresa doesn’t get to go to the highest level of heaven like somebody that got married in the temple and met the other criteria?[/quote]
Well, there is some evidence that suggests that those who never heard the true Gospel in its fullness will not have to go through the ordinances, or that their reception is immediate and understood, but I think it’s safe to say that since God does the judging and makes the decision we can only say I don’t know exactly where she stands, but I know what I need to do because of the path laid out in scripture.
[quote]koffea wrote:
thanks for your response. its kind of confusing actually. my wife is lds and I have simply come to the conclusion that I will never understand the word of wisdom. I think it is contains a cultural perceptions that are difficult for outsiders to understand.
Board Question #37347
i asked about kava because it is drunk by several members of her ward, and was really popular in her singles ward (years ago). since kava is none habit forming i guess that makes it ok?
Board Question #59081 - appears to advocate breaking the 9th commandment?[/quote]
I agree, with some things it is quite frankly, fuzzy. And that’s why a person has to exercise wisdom and judgement. I wouldn’t say kava is okay, but I certainly wouldn’t advocate anyone’s using it.
No, it’s not advocating bearing false witness- the people know the missionaries aren’t drinking it, generally, but the missionaries are simply showing respect to the tradition.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
But by that answer aren’t you saying yes it is true until they receive the gospel? In other words yes without receiving the gospel mother theresa doesn’t get to go to the highest level of heaven like somebody that got married in the temple and met the other criteria?[/quote]
Well, there is some evidence that suggests that those who never heard the true Gospel in its fullness will not have to go through the ordinances, or that their reception is immediate and understood, but I think it’s safe to say that since God does the judging and makes the decision we can only say I don’t know exactly where she stands, but I know what I need to do because of the path laid out in scripture. [/quote]
More specifically, Mormons believe that those who didn’t have the opportunity to receive the gospel in this life will be given that opportunity in the spirit world, prior to the final judgment. Temple ordinances are performed by proxy for everyone that has died, and if they choose to accept those ordinances in the spirit world they can still inherit the Celestial Kingdom.