Questions for Al Gore

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]knewsom wrote:
I never said anything about desroying the planet. However, it’s possible that through our actions we’re damaging the ecosystem such that it could make life for humans very difficult, and/or deadly for hundreds of millions of people, not to mention countless species of plant and animal that could become extinct.[/quote]

It’s already deadly to hundreds of millions of people. Between earthquakes, tsunamis, Saddam, and the Janjaweed, the oceans rising between an inch and a meter in the next 50-100 yrs. is pretty tame.

[quote]“Fear will keep them in line. Fear of this battlestationm.”

“The power of this battlestation is insignificant next to the power of the Force.”[/quote]

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Admittedly, I slept through my polisci 101 class. I must’ve only caught the parts about leaders like George Washington, Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela who lead people through inspiration to do what is right rather than scaring them away from (or into) doing something wrong.

You’re right if you look past pollution lowering/eliminating actions like getting rid of leaded paint, leaded gasoline, and asbestos, reforestation, all manners of water purification, coal emissions regulations, field runoff regulations, recycling, the Montreal Protocol… all of which were much easier to implement than any war. Now a war against cars that will cause the earth to warm up and/or cool down, the ice caps to melt on the edges and grow in the middle, and the oceans to rise .4 to 4 m in the next 50-500 yrs. is a hard sell.

Rather genocentric of you. You’re concievably right, of all the chordata or ‘animals’ we’ve had a very large (if not the largest) impact. But if we look at the big pond (eukaryotes or all of life) I would say many of the nitrogen fixers are at the top of the ‘environmental impact’ chain and have a very long list of others below them and above us. Our effects may be more ubiquitous, but our magnitude is yet to be proven (Note the line about ‘contain signatures’ rather than ‘dominated by’):

Observed climate change signatures have included a global warming trend, strongest at the high latitudes (Hansen et al. 1999); a decrease in Northern Hemispheric snow cover (Groisman et al. 1994); and increasing atmospheric water vapor in the Tropics (Houghton et al. 1995). The ecological consequences of these changes have included a global greening and a strong greening and poleward expansion of the Eurasian and North American boreal forests. Satellite imagery has been the primary evidence of these vegetation changes but is limited to only two decades of temporal recording. In addition, the observed climate and vegetation records contain signatures of the effects of anthropogenic land use and aerosols, making it difficult to determine the specific impact of rising carbon dioxide levels and climate change.

MICHAEL NOTARO, ZHENGYU LIU, ROBERT GALLIMORE, STEPHEN J. VAVRUS, AND JOHN E. KUTZBACH, I. COLIN PRENTICE, ROBERT L. JACOB, Simulated and Observed Preindustrial to Modern Vegetation and Climate Changes, J. Climate, 18, p3650-71, 2005.

and

By masking the high albedo of snow and through the partitioning of net radiation into sensible and latent heat, boreal forests significantly warm climate (in some months and some regions by more than 5C to 10C) compared to climate model simulations in which the boreal forest is replaced with bare ground or tundra vegetation.

http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/tss/staff/bonan/boreal.html

I’m not saying ‘go out and buy an SUV’ but the dynamic vegetation and carbon fixation data can quite easily make a tree look just as scary as an SUV, and I have yet to see an SUV self-replicate. Pretty soon, those trees’ll be everywhere! Are you scared yet?

42

I am actually quite ‘green’, but I tire of the silliness and naivete of members of our elite upper crust, be they Manhattan, Hollywood or academia.

If you haven’t seen this already, enjoy:

"Nearly ten years after the Kyoto accords, our planet continues to careen helplessly toward certain environmental destruction. The skies are choked with pollutants. Polar bears are plunging through the thinning ice caps. Ben Affleck is still having problems finding a decent comeback project.

Thankfully, with the new release of Al Gore’s blockbuster eco-documentary “An Inconvenient Truth,” the world is finally heeding the disaster looming on the horizon. But mere consciousness is not enough to cure our current climate ills - it takes action. Here are a few simple things you to put the planet on the road to recovery.

  1. Turn off faucets when not in use. While a single dripping faucet may not seem to be much of an environmental hazzard, the numbers really begin to add up when you’re hosting a Sierra Club fundraising party for Laurie David and all 10 of your bathrooms are in use. Have your domestic staff check to make sure that electonic sink sensors are working properly, and use other water conservation methods such as installing low-flow bidets. Remember to remind your guests: “If it’s yellow, let it mellow.”

  2. Upgrade to a new Gulfstream G550. Next time you take off for Cannes or Sundance or that big Environmental Defense Fund gala, stop and think how much fuel that clunky old G450 is using. Not only does the new G550 have 10.8% better fuel efficiency, it’s quieter, has real burled walnut, and with a maximum cruising speed of Mach 0.885 you’ll never be late for the Palm d’Or ceremony!

  3. Crush a Third World economic development movement. One of the most pressing threats facing our environment is rising incomes in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. Only a generation ago, these proud dark people were happily frolicking in the rain forest, foraging for organic foods amid the wonders of nature. Now, corrupted by wealth, they are demanding environmentally hazardous consumer goods like cars and air conditioning and malaria medicine. You can do your part to stop this dangerous consumer trend by supporting environmentally aware leaders like Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro to foster an economy of sustainable low-impact ecolabor camps.

  4. Don’t Have Babies. Many people are shocked when they learn that fewer than 25% of the Screen Actors Guild and Directors Guild have been spayed or neutered. Sure, babies make great fashion accessories and it’s fun to give them awesome names, like Kumquat Wildebeest Paltrow and Toploader Enchilada Cage. But these miniature humans will eventually grow and begin ravenously consuming the Earth’s depleted reserves of aux pairs and psychotherapists.

  5. Alternative fuel motorcades. Let’s face it: whether you are on an international press junket or going to an awards banquet, motorcades are a way of life. But this doesn’t mean you can’t make your red carpet entrance in an eco-friendly way. When possible, tell your publicity team to request a electric, hybrid, or E-85 stretch limo for you and your entourage. Later, when you are vomiting outside the Viper Club, encourage the paparazzi to share the photos to conserve high energy use camera flash pods.

  6. Go on a random killing spree. If science has taught us anything, it is that human beings are the root cause of our current environmental mess, and it’s high time that we address these two-legged eco problems head on. Next time you’re on your way to a location shoot, do a little shooting of your own - have the driver lower the tinted windows and pop a few caps on behalf of Mother Earth. Not only will you be doing the environment a good turn, it will earn you valuable youth market “street cred.”

  7. “Green begins at home.” Whether you live in East Hampton or Topanga Canyon, there are dozens of little things you can do around your compound to minimize harm to the environment. For instance, have your groundskeeping staff lower the water levels in your koi ponds, and turn off your energy-wasting security cameras between 1 AM and 7 AM. If you own a summer ranch in Montana, send an email to the trail boss and tell him/her to add Beano to your cattle herd’s feed to reduce ozone-depleting methane emissions.

  8. Phase out the entertainment industry by 2011. If there is one sector of our economy that typifies America’s obscene energy waste, it is the entertainment industry. Every year untold gigawatts are consumed to power studio kleig lights, theater projectors, popcorn machines, and multi-city concert tours, with no discernable benefit to society. With your help, this destructive drag on our environment can be reversed within five years. Do your part by pledging to greenlight only those films that have recycled or incomprehensible story lines, and by signing preachy and unlistenable musical acts. By purging the entertainment market of its dangerous popular appeal, you will be reducing the public’s desire to make wasteful and expensive SUVs trips to their local concert halls, cineplexes and video stores.

  9. Commit suicide. As an eco-aware, planetary resource parasite, you will eventually want to kill yourself to spare the environment any further damage that your personal existence has already caused. However, it is important that you plan your suicide carefully as not to disturb the ecosystem’s delicate balance. Self immolation, while poignant, can release up to 50 kg of airborne fluorocarbons. Why not try the the hot new Malibu trend, ritual Japanese sepukku? it’s exotic, elegant, and your intact corpse will make a great compost pile addition.

  10. Support eco-friendly organizations and political candidates. Finally, you can make a major impact for environmental good through community legislative action. Like it or not, getting Washington to take action on environmental issues requires intensive lobbying and the election of eco-thinking representatives, and this takes money. There are literally hundreds of worthy environmentalist organizations and candidates out there, and the choices can be confusing. Fortunately, I have taken the work out of this for you. Before you do #9, make a legacy of your commitment to eco-action: send me a bundled contribution via PayPal to my email address, and I will see to it that it gets to the right place. Together, we can make a difference!"

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/05/ten_things_you_.html

43

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am actually quite ‘green’, but I tire of the silliness and naivete of members of our elite upper crust, be they Manhattan, Hollywood or academia.

If you haven’t seen this already, enjoy:

…[/quote]

Fantastic.

44

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am actually quite ‘green’, but I tire of the silliness and naivete of members of our elite upper crust, be they Manhattan, Hollywood or academia.

If you haven’t seen this already, enjoy:

…

Fantastic.[/quote]

Superb.

45

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am actually quite ‘green’, but I tire of the silliness and naivete of members of our elite upper crust, be they Manhattan, Hollywood or academia.

If you haven’t seen this already, enjoy:

"Nearly ten years after the Kyoto accords, our planet continues to careen helplessly toward certain environmental destruction. The skies are choked with pollutants. Polar bears are plunging through the thinning ice caps. Ben Affleck is still having problems finding a decent comeback project.

Thankfully, with the new release of Al Gore’s blockbuster eco-documentary “An Inconvenient Truth,” the world is finally heeding the disaster looming on the horizon. But mere consciousness is not enough to cure our current climate ills - it takes action. Here are a few simple things you to put the planet on the road to recovery.

  1. Turn off faucets when not in use. While a single dripping faucet may not seem to be much of an environmental hazzard, the numbers really begin to add up when you’re hosting a Sierra Club fundraising party for Laurie David and all 10 of your bathrooms are in use. Have your domestic staff check to make sure that electonic sink sensors are working properly, and use other water conservation methods such as installing low-flow bidets. Remember to remind your guests: “If it’s yellow, let it mellow.”

  2. Upgrade to a new Gulfstream G550. Next time you take off for Cannes or Sundance or that big Environmental Defense Fund gala, stop and think how much fuel that clunky old G450 is using. Not only does the new G550 have 10.8% better fuel efficiency, it’s quieter, has real burled walnut, and with a maximum cruising speed of Mach 0.885 you’ll never be late for the Palm d’Or ceremony!

  3. Crush a Third World economic development movement. One of the most pressing threats facing our environment is rising incomes in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. Only a generation ago, these proud dark people were happily frolicking in the rain forest, foraging for organic foods amid the wonders of nature. Now, corrupted by wealth, they are demanding environmentally hazardous consumer goods like cars and air conditioning and malaria medicine. You can do your part to stop this dangerous consumer trend by supporting environmentally aware leaders like Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro to foster an economy of sustainable low-impact ecolabor camps.

  4. Don’t Have Babies. Many people are shocked when they learn that fewer than 25% of the Screen Actors Guild and Directors Guild have been spayed or neutered. Sure, babies make great fashion accessories and it’s fun to give them awesome names, like Kumquat Wildebeest Paltrow and Toploader Enchilada Cage. But these miniature humans will eventually grow and begin ravenously consuming the Earth’s depleted reserves of aux pairs and psychotherapists.

  5. Alternative fuel motorcades. Let’s face it: whether you are on an international press junket or going to an awards banquet, motorcades are a way of life. But this doesn’t mean you can’t make your red carpet entrance in an eco-friendly way. When possible, tell your publicity team to request a electric, hybrid, or E-85 stretch limo for you and your entourage. Later, when you are vomiting outside the Viper Club, encourage the paparazzi to share the photos to conserve high energy use camera flash pods.

  6. Go on a random killing spree. If science has taught us anything, it is that human beings are the root cause of our current environmental mess, and it’s high time that we address these two-legged eco problems head on. Next time you’re on your way to a location shoot, do a little shooting of your own - have the driver lower the tinted windows and pop a few caps on behalf of Mother Earth. Not only will you be doing the environment a good turn, it will earn you valuable youth market “street cred.”

  7. “Green begins at home.” Whether you live in East Hampton or Topanga Canyon, there are dozens of little things you can do around your compound to minimize harm to the environment. For instance, have your groundskeeping staff lower the water levels in your koi ponds, and turn off your energy-wasting security cameras between 1 AM and 7 AM. If you own a summer ranch in Montana, send an email to the trail boss and tell him/her to add Beano to your cattle herd’s feed to reduce ozone-depleting methane emissions.

  8. Phase out the entertainment industry by 2011. If there is one sector of our economy that typifies America’s obscene energy waste, it is the entertainment industry. Every year untold gigawatts are consumed to power studio kleig lights, theater projectors, popcorn machines, and multi-city concert tours, with no discernable benefit to society. With your help, this destructive drag on our environment can be reversed within five years. Do your part by pledging to greenlight only those films that have recycled or incomprehensible story lines, and by signing preachy and unlistenable musical acts. By purging the entertainment market of its dangerous popular appeal, you will be reducing the public’s desire to make wasteful and expensive SUVs trips to their local concert halls, cineplexes and video stores.

  9. Commit suicide. As an eco-aware, planetary resource parasite, you will eventually want to kill yourself to spare the environment any further damage that your personal existence has already caused. However, it is important that you plan your suicide carefully as not to disturb the ecosystem’s delicate balance. Self immolation, while poignant, can release up to 50 kg of airborne fluorocarbons. Why not try the the hot new Malibu trend, ritual Japanese sepukku? it’s exotic, elegant, and your intact corpse will make a great compost pile addition.

  10. Support eco-friendly organizations and political candidates. Finally, you can make a major impact for environmental good through community legislative action. Like it or not, getting Washington to take action on environmental issues requires intensive lobbying and the election of eco-thinking representatives, and this takes money. There are literally hundreds of worthy environmentalist organizations and candidates out there, and the choices can be confusing. Fortunately, I have taken the work out of this for you. Before you do #9, make a legacy of your commitment to eco-action: send me a bundled contribution via PayPal to my email address, and I will see to it that it gets to the right place. Together, we can make a difference!"

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/05/ten_things_you_.html[/quote]

On the mark!

46

Another good list for Al’s movie:

Top Ten Surprises In Al Gore’s Global Warming Movie

  1. The role of Al Gore was played by Bruce Willis

  2. During summer months, Al and Tipper host nude barbecues

  3. Hilarious outtake of Al Gore saying, “Wobal Glarming”

  4. It’s a musical

  5. Refers to Arizona as being “Hotter than Tipper’s ass”

  6. Claims global warming melted Kenny Rogers’ face

  7. Blames the crisis on a creepy Albino

  8. The scientist who supports all his claims is Al Gore in a mustache

  9. Best solution is to contribute heavily to Gore-In-2008.com

  10. It felt longer than the Florida recount

47

[quote]CDM wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Sometimes the only way to motivate people is fear.

I keep hear how the Republicans are always getting their way by creating and using fear. So it applies to the environment but not the war on terror?

And the saving the planet stuff is so tiring to listen to. The planet has survived dinosaurs, an ice age, and countless other events. I am sure it will survive humans also.[/quote]

Yeah, the ‘vote for me our will be attacked again’ is the same as ‘we should try to slow down global warming or we will be in serious trouble’.

Show me where a politican is scaring their way into office try to make global warming a wedge issue.

Give me a break that is so pathetic.

Gore is a clown but your assertion make me shoot water out of my nose.

48

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:

Yeah, the ‘vote for me our will be attacked again’ is the same as ‘we should try to slow down global warming or we will be in serious trouble’.[/quote]

The difference being that it took a year to clean up the evidence that terrorists are moving against us (If you only look at the one attack) and less than a year to make decisive action against them, whereas it will continue to take years to prove that warming is occuring and man-made and even longer to do anything about it, if we can, should, or need to.

People talk about being X times more likely to be struck by lightning or eaten by a shark, etc. than killed by a terrorist. I’d like to see the analysis where global warming is actually killing people: You are infinitely less likely to be killed by global warming than being hit by a train. A little bit of anti-propaganda.

49

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Back in the late 70?s we had a couple of bad winters. The scientists were claiming that we were approaching another Ice age. [/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. Didn’t some of the major news mags (Time, Newsweek) publish articles at that time that laid out an approximately twenty-year timeline to the “Next Ice Age” if we didn’t…lower greenhouse gas emissions?

50

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
…
What a dickhead.

I agree. Gore is a huge dickhead for making such a misleading movie.[/quote]

Given Gore’s history why are you surprised?

51

[quote]CDM wrote:
…
And the saving the planet stuff is so tiring to listen to. The planet has survived dinosaurs, an ice age, and countless other events. I am sure it will survive humans also.[/quote]

The question is not if the planet will survive humans.

The question is: did you see any dinosaurs lately?

And the follow up question is, why are you so eager to risk becoming the next dinosaur?

52

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
…
What a dickhead.

I agree. Gore is a huge dickhead for making such a misleading movie.[/quote]

Why are you so eager to swallow any Bush lie, but want absolute proof from anything those bad democrats say?
Is it because you hold them to a higher standard?

Zap, I’ve got an interesting study for you.
While it is shown that people runnnig red lights are more frequently involved in trafic accidents, killing themselves and others, this is probably purely coincidence. Or statistical at most.
There’s nothing to proove that there will be an accident if YOU run THAT red light at this very moment. So, I encourage you to run red lights on a regular basis.

You won’t mind if I prefer to stop, do you?

53

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
CDM wrote:
…
And the saving the planet stuff is so tiring to listen to. The planet has survived dinosaurs, an ice age, and countless other events. I am sure it will survive humans also.

The question is not if the planet will survive humans.

The question is: did you see any dinosaurs lately?

And the follow up question is, why are you so eager to risk becoming the next dinosaur?[/quote]

And was it the dinosaurs behavior that changed the environment wiping them out?

You are unwittingly supporting the global warming skeptics with your silly arguments.

54

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
CDM wrote:
…
And the saving the planet stuff is so tiring to listen to. The planet has survived dinosaurs, an ice age, and countless other events. I am sure it will survive humans also.

The question is not if the planet will survive humans.

The question is: did you see any dinosaurs lately?

And the follow up question is, why are you so eager to risk becoming the next dinosaur?

And was it the dinosaurs behavior that changed the environment wiping them out?

You are unwittingly supporting the global warming skeptics with your silly arguments.[/quote]

No I’m not. I never claimed the dinosaurs behavior changed the environment.

I’m just trying to point out that, while the survival of the earth is a noble goal, the survival of humanity also somewhat important.

Didn’t you get that? Or don’t you agree with it?

55

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
CDM wrote:
…
And the saving the planet stuff is so tiring to listen to. The planet has survived dinosaurs, an ice age, and countless other events. I am sure it will survive humans also.

The question is not if the planet will survive humans.

The question is: did you see any dinosaurs lately?

And the follow up question is, why are you so eager to risk becoming the next dinosaur?

And was it the dinosaurs behavior that changed the environment wiping them out?

You are unwittingly supporting the global warming skeptics with your silly arguments.

No I’m not. I never claimed the dinosaurs behavior changed the environment.

I’m just trying to point out that, while the survival of the earth is a noble goal, the survival of humanity also somewhat important.

Didn’t you get that? Or don’t you agree with it?[/quote]

So what does drawing an incredibly false analogy have to do with survival of humanity?

Try to follow the discussion next time and perhaps you can add something that makes some sense.

56

I was trying to point out that the confidence, gained from “the earth survived the dinosaurs”, didn’t save the dinosaurs and it won’t save us.

The fact is they became extinct through a natural disaster, a comet hitting the earth or another catastrophe.
There is evidence that humans, through their behaviour, might be causing a similar catastrophe.
It is reckless to insist on complete proof for this risk and it is criminal to not do anything untill it is prooven, since by then it will probably be to late to do anything about it.

That was what my “running red lights” analogy was about.

Had you tried to follow the discussion, you might have gotten that.

Or perhaps, like CDM, you think this “saving the planet stuff is tiring to listen to”?

57

[quote]Wreckless wrote:

The question is not if the planet will survive humans.

The question is: did you see any dinosaurs lately?

And the follow up question is, why are you so eager to risk becoming the next dinosaur?[/quote]

Too bad the dinosauers didn’t worry about their CO2 emissions – maybe if they had pulled their heads out and developed a dinosauer beano instead of focusing on dinosauer economics, i.e. eating and pooping, they would have survived.

We should learn from the dinosauers.

58

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I was trying to point out that the confidence, gained from “the earth survived the dinosaurs”, didn’t save the dinosaurs and it won’t save us.

The fact is they became extinct through a natural disaster, a comet hitting the earth or another catastrophe.
There is evidence that humans, through their behaviour, might be causing a similar catastrophe.
It is reckless to insist on complete proof for this risk and it is criminal to not do anything untill it is prooven, since by then it will probably be to late to do anything about it.

That was what my “running red lights” analogy was about.

Had you tried to follow the discussion, you might have gotten that.

Or perhaps, like CDM, you think this “saving the planet stuff is tiring to listen to”?[/quote]

As I noted this discussion was about global warming and whether it is man made.

No one with the slightest clue thinks if CO2 induced global warming is true that it will end humanity.

Your comment about the dinosaurs extinction reinforces Rainjack’s point that forces of nature such as volcanos or objects crashing into the earth have a far more significant influence on climate than anything living things can do.

Of course you are drawing false analogies all over the site. You have said Marmadogg is as bad as Zarqawi and condemned him to hell.

59

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
I was trying to point out that the confidence, gained from “the earth survived the dinosaurs”, didn’t save the dinosaurs and it won’t save us.

The fact is they became extinct through a natural disaster, a comet hitting the earth or another catastrophe.
There is evidence that humans, through their behaviour, might be causing a similar catastrophe.
It is reckless to insist on complete proof for this risk and it is criminal to not do anything untill it is prooven, since by then it will probably be to late to do anything about it.

That was what my “running red lights” analogy was about.

Had you tried to follow the discussion, you might have gotten that.

Or perhaps, like CDM, you think this “saving the planet stuff is tiring to listen to”?

As I noted this discussion was about global warming and whether it is man made.

No one with the slightest clue thinks if CO2 induced global warming is true that it will end humanity.
[/quote]
And you know this because? There are plenty of scientists out there who would disagree with you. But perhaps you chose to believe that few that don’t. Is it because the truth is incovenient?

No, my point is that the dominant species can become extinct through changes in the planets climate.

[quote]
Of course you are drawing false analogies all over the site. You have said Marmadogg is as bad as Zarqawi and condemned him to hell.[/quote]

No, he did that all by himself.

60

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
…
No one with the slightest clue thinks if CO2 induced global warming is true that it will end humanity.

And you know this because? There are plenty of scientists out there who would disagree with you. But perhaps you chose to believe that few that don’t. Is it because the truth is incovenient?
…[/quote]

I know this because it is the truth.

There is not a single credible scientist that believes this will end humanity.

You are totally clueless.