Questions About Training

Training
901

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
krsoneeeee wrote:
Dear CT

Whilst training for aesthetic size/strength, Would it be effective to do 3 full-body workouts a week in this fashion;

sunday: pure strength; 4-6 rep range using ramping.

tuesday: focus more on size; 8-10 rep range. perhaps dropsets?

thursday: functional strength/size; 6-8 rep range, ramping?

aiming for at 15 sets per muscle group within the week period. Also, Im not really sure what style of workout is best for each goal, ie ramping is best for strength?

any help would be much appreciated and thanks for taking the time,

Matt

Any scheme/method where producing the most force possible works best with ramping. To me this means that anytime that your goal is to reach the heaviest possible weight for a specific number of rep you should ramp up.

It may seems contradictory to the fact that I often recommend wave loadingā€¦ but wave loading really is ramping; you are ramping throughout each wave (each set of a wave is done with more weight) and from wave to wave (the second wave is heavier than the first wave).

When the goal is to create fatigue (I call that ā€˜capacity trainingā€™) which will indirectly stimulate growth, then I prefer to use the same weight for every set and AUTOREGULATE. This means that the number of sets will depend on my work capacity. For example, you use a weight that is close to your 6RM, first two sets are ā€˜feel/wake-upā€™ setsā€¦ perform 4 reps on the first set and 5 reps on the second. The the real work sets beginā€¦ you perform sets of 6 reps with the weight ā€¦ when you canā€™t complete 5 technically correct reps, you stop the exercise.

For example:

Set 1 = 4 reps with 120lbs
Set 2 = 5 reps with 120lbs
Set 3 = 6 reps with 120lbs
Set 4 = 6 reps with 120lbs
Set 5ā€¦ fatigue sets in ā€¦ only do 5 reps with 120lb
Set 6 ā€¦ can only complete 4 repsā€¦ end of exercise

I donā€™t like to use drop-sets anymore, I found them to create too much neuromuscular stress, specifically at the neuromuscular junction, which will possibly negate the gains from CNS-intensive workouts.

Instead of drop-sets I like to perform ONE SET ON THE LAST EXERCISE OF A MUSCLE GROUP (not on the last set of every exercise!!!) with 85% of what YOU ENDED UP USING FOR YOUR LAST GOOD SET and to as many reps as possible.

For example the most weight you used above is 120lbsā€¦ 85% of that is 100lbsā€¦ you would do as many reps as you can with that weight.

The good thing is that this autoregulates volume: you only perform the number of sets that your body can handle and recovers from and the max set is based on your daily capacities.

BTW 4-6 reps is NOT pure strength work. Heck, this is my HIGH REPS bracket!!! Strength work is working at or above 90% of your max which normally means 1-4 reps.[/quote]

ok thanks very much

so if im doing 3 trainings a week, would it be good to use ramping and the autoregulating training you were talking about in tandem? ie, autoreg twice and ramping up to max once per week?

902

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I reall donā€™t like this plan. It will not work. You will burnout the CNS in less than 3 weeks.

I already did actually ! This is my stupid psychological barrier : I canā€™t set myself to do the lift I want to improve less frequently and less heavy although I know itā€™s too much ! It always feels like Iā€™m getting weaker if I donā€™t do itā€¦

Could you please help me connect these pieces of the puzzle :

  1. practice this lift (bench press) 3 times a week
  2. go somehow heavy (doesnā€™t matter how many reps as long as it stays 87%+ )
  3. do only the regular lift (I canā€™t do anything with bench in the power rack - either the rack or the bench for it is always occupied in my gym)

Or is it something else besides bench press should be ditched/changed ?

Your mindset will prevent you from reaching your goals.

When you are bench pressing you are focusing on not getting weaker instead of getting stronger.

You should go heavy on a lift once a week, but when you get to that one workout you are just bursting with power, eager to break a record.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR NERVOUS ENERGYā€¦ its the worst thing you can do.

When I say that your program is not good, I mean just that. First of all I donā€™t like going near maximum on two compound lifts of different structure (bench and deadlift)ā€¦ going at 90% on both of these in the same workout is one of the best way to destroy the nervous system.

DO NOT GO CLOSE TO 90% MORE THAN ONCE A WEEK ON A LIFT. When doing a lift 3 times a day, the second workout is a 'recharge", you should practice DESTROYING, DOMINATING the weights. Use around 80% of the max you reached on the first workout, NO MORE. This means around 70-75% of your max and focus on lifting the weight with as much explosion as possible. Shoot for 5-7 sets of 3.

Remember that YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK AT A WORKOUT IN ISOLATION. Each workout affect the next ones. So each workout needs to ENHANCE THE EFFICACY OF THE NEXT WORKOUT. By going heavy all the time to feed your ego your workout not only does not make the next one better, it makes it worse.

MUCH WORSE. The nervous system takes a long time to recover. By training like you are I can garantee you that in 10 years you will not have had any progress.

WAKE UP!

P.S. You see to have a mental block because you think that if you are not training hard enough, you will not progress. And in your mind hard work = heavy lifting.

REMEMBER THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS LIGHT DOESNā€™T MEAN THAT IT IS EASY!!!

Force = Mass x Acceleration

This means that you can produce more force by focusing on heavy lifts (mass factor) and/or acceleration. Lifting a weight that is 70-75% of your max with a lot of speed requires as much force, if not more than doing a near maximal lift.[/quote]

Wow thanks, man, thatā€™s very inspirational!
Iā€™ll do it like you say this time!

A few quick questions:

  1. Iā€™m thinking of these choices for day 3 of bench :

    a) work up to the set or two before the last that was on Monday (e.g. if it was 85,87,90,95,100kgx2, go for 90 or 95 on Friday)
    b) donā€™t bench - go heavy on another pressing movement less straining than bench (incline/db incline/shoulder presses)
    c) do motor learning 85% x 2 in 20 mins (if 90%x1 is too much)

What would be more optimal ?

  1. Iā€™d pair lighter bench with heavier deadlift on the same day and vice versa, and the second heavy deadlift will not be all out. Considering changes to bench press also, will the plan be fine then ?
903

Thib, I have a question about exercise selection when training two muscle groups in one session. For example: If I am training my torso (chest and back) or legs (quads and hams), with 12-16 sets each, is it better to do all movements for one body part prior to starting the next (doing all chest prior to back for example)? Or is it better to alternate exercises between body parts (i.e one quad exercise for 4 sets followed by a ham exercise for 4 sets)? On one hand, I would like to build up fatigue in one region and have greater TUT, but on the other hand compound movements for the later executed bodypart would be compromised. what do you think? thanks in advance.

904

CT,

Ive read a lot about cluster training for building strength, but do you use it as a means of packing on muscle? I believe i read somewhere that for you personally cluster reps seemed to work the best but i wasnā€™t sure if you were saying that from a hypertrophy or overall strength standpoint. I think i have read a few times that fast twitch muscle fibers are the biggest and have the largest potential for growth, so by using a technique such as cluster reps for some of the bigger exercises like squats, deads, and bench, one would really be targeting and fatiguing those fast twitch fibers prompting them to grow? I believe im confused on the overall concept of fast twitch muscle fibers and how they fit in and apply from a bodybuilding standpoint

905

Thib,

I see a lot of people talk about both formal and informal ways to assess CNS fatigue and the ability to train on any given day (when to push the envelope, when to pull back on the reigns, etc.)

These methods range from the expensive to the inexpensive.

Expensive: OmegaWave (I have no idea what this actually is but have seen it mentioned on the EliteFTS website a fair bit); Tendo Unit (not so much for pre-assessing but for actually gauging the training sessionā€¦Iā€™m torn on the value of this, as it seems phenomenal on one level but like it could make a lifter neurotic/anal retentive when it comes to training if not treated in the right way)

Less Expensive/Inexpensive: Vertical Jump test, hand dynamometer test, finger tapping test

Sometimes it is even suggested to track morning temperature and heart rate to assess things on a general level.

And then of course thereā€™s ways to try and auto-regulate training sessions.

Just curious what you may have found to be of value, and when those might be the best things to use versus when something else might be a preferable choiceā€¦of course you may not currently use any of those thing, but I am just trying to get a feel for what may and may not be useful on this front.

906

[quote]jimmyjames66 wrote:
Thib, I have a question about exercise selection when training two muscle groups in one session. For example: If I am training my torso (chest and back) or legs (quads and hams), with 12-16 sets each, is it better to do all movements for one body part prior to starting the next (doing all chest prior to back for example)? Or is it better to alternate exercises between body parts (i.e one quad exercise for 4 sets followed by a ham exercise for 4 sets)? On one hand, I would like to build up fatigue in one region and have greater TUT, but on the other hand compound movements for the later executed bodypart would be compromised. what do you think? thanks in advance. [/quote]

  1. If the two muscles groups are antagonists (e.g. chest/back; quads/hams; biceps/triceps) then it is best to either pair one exercise for each uscle group together. For example:

A1. Bench press
A2. Bent over barbell row

B1. Incline DB press
B2. Lat pulldown

C1. DB flies
C2. Row to neck

You would exercises on every setā€¦

For example, if you were to do 3 sets of bench press and 3 sets of row it would look like this:

Bench press set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 3
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 3

  1. If the two muscles are related in their funtion (e.g. chest/triceps; back/bicep; quads/hams*)
  • quads and hams are related when using compound movements because both are involved in the exercise.

Then I would perform all the sets for the main muscle group (e.g. chest) then do the work for the secondary muscle group (e.g. triceps).

  1. If the two muscles are unrelated (e.g. chest/biceps; back/triceps; legs/shoulders); any one of those strategy can be used.
907

Thib,

I donā€™t understand the theory behind this approach - it seems like it would result in a weaker second set for the bench and so onā€¦ because the 1st set of rows would kick your butt even harder.

For example, if you were to do 3 sets of bench press and 3 sets of row it would look like this:

Bench press set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 3
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 3

908

[quote]baldadonis2002 wrote:
Thib,

I donā€™t understand the theory behind this approach - it seems like it would result in a weaker second set for the bench and so onā€¦ because the 1st set of rows would kick your butt even harder.

For example, if you were to do 3 sets of bench press and 3 sets of row it would look like this:

Bench press set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 1
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 2
Rest 45 sec
Bench press set 3
Rest 45 sec
Bent over row set 3 [/quote]

Quite the contrary! Antagonist pairings have a profound neurological effect that boosts performance. If fatigue inhibits your performance, take longer rest periods.

909

Quick question CT,

Next week I plan on starting your OVT program from The Beast Evolves article. Is there anything in the program that at present, you would change? Have you improved on it since or is it still great as is? I am really looking forward to it!

Thanks

910

Hey Thib, you said in another thread :

"2) practice for what you are going to do ā€¦ if you shoot for 2-4 reps per set, do 2-4 reps during the practice sets too. The goal is to improve performance, not fatigue yourself.

  1. if you will lift in the 200s, have 2-3 practice sets (gradually heavier), if you will lift in the 300s, have 3-4, if you will lift in the 400s, have 4-5, in the 500s 5-6, in the 600s, 6-7, in the 700s 7-8"

Letā€™s say I want to ramp up to 3RM on a lift, which is 100 kg. From which point are the sets considered not practice ? Surely, I wouldnā€™t do 50x3,70x3,90x3,100x3 straight away? Is it something like this? :
50 x 3
70 x 3
90 x 3
(end of practice sets)
92.5 x 3
95 x 3
100 x 3

Or maybe even 90 x 3 is not practice anymore and considered a work set ?

911

CT,

How often do you reccomend training a muscle/muscle group while trying to lose body fat and maintain size/strength?

Thank you.

912

At heavy weights my front squat loses stability/symmetry. I tend to shift my weight from one side to the other and back again as I come up.
Any suggestions for a remedy?

913

Thib, i got a question for you!

I have thought about changing my training after i read this article:

Im practising Muay thai, and i really think it looks great.

But what are Your thoughts on this kind of training?

914

Coach,

While I was deployed in Iraq, I was on a huge weight loss diet. I currently am at good standing with lean muscle mass and body fat at 9%. I am skinny, and lean. Not cool man. I am trying to get hy-ooooooge! Like you man. I am currently on week two of OVT. My eating is in check and supplements include:

Multivitamin
EFA
Anti-Oxidants
ReceptorMax
Grow! Whey (meal replacement w/ fruit and vegetable)
Surge Recovery (pre, post and during)

What would you recommend for me from here? Any changes in supplementation, training, or nutrition? Any methods or protocols that you might think would work for me? I plan on using Anaconda whenever you release the damn stuff! haha. I am small framed and a former fat boy just trying to make some muscular gains. Thanks coach.

915

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
CT,

How often do you reccomend training a muscle/muscle group while trying to lose body fat and maintain size/strength?

Thank you.[/quote]

1 to 6 times a week. :wink:

It depends on the approach you use.

916

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Hey Thib, you said in another thread :

"2) practice for what you are going to do ā€¦ if you shoot for 2-4 reps per set, do 2-4 reps during the practice sets too. The goal is to improve performance, not fatigue yourself.

  1. if you will lift in the 200s, have 2-3 practice sets (gradually heavier), if you will lift in the 300s, have 3-4, if you will lift in the 400s, have 4-5, in the 500s 5-6, in the 600s, 6-7, in the 700s 7-8"

Letā€™s say I want to ramp up to 3RM on a lift, which is 100 kg. From which point are the sets considered not practice ? Surely, I wouldnā€™t do 50x3,70x3,90x3,100x3 straight away? Is it something like this? :
50 x 3
70 x 3
90 x 3
(end of practice sets)
92.5 x 3
95 x 3
100 x 3

Or maybe even 90 x 3 is not practice anymore and considered a work set ?[/quote]

I consider everything above 70% to be work sets in this case, as long as you try to accelerate the weight as much as possible when you lift it.

917

Coach,

My right pec is severely lagging behind my left pec (My dominant hand is my right). I have tried doing single sided machine flies on my right pec after my chest workout but my left pec still seems to be growing faster than my right. My current work out is an upper/lower split with a heavy and light day for each. On my light day I do dumbell bench (I was told this would help with a lagging pec) but I still only ever feel it work in my left pec. If I decrease the weight I can focus on contracting the muscle and I feel it in my right pec more but not at all in my left pec. Any tips?

918

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,

How often do you reccomend training a muscle/muscle group while trying to lose body fat and maintain size/strength?

Thank you.

1 to 6 times a week. :wink:

It depends on the approach you use.[/quote]

Toucheā€¦ I usually do 5x5 or work up to 3 RM on my core lifts.

919

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,

How often do you reccomend training a muscle/muscle group while trying to lose body fat and maintain size/strength?

Thank you.

1 to 6 times a week. :wink:

It depends on the approach you use.

Toucheā€¦ I usually do 5x5 or work up to 3 RM on my core lifts.

[/quote]

And how many days a week do you train?

920

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,

How often do you reccomend training a muscle/muscle group while trying to lose body fat and maintain size/strength?

Thank you.

1 to 6 times a week. :wink:

It depends on the approach you use.

Toucheā€¦ I usually do 5x5 or work up to 3 RM on my core lifts.

And how many days a week do you train?
[/quote]

I prefer to go more than not so usually 4 or 5 times a week. And i do steady state cardio a couple mornings a week.