[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
gyakujujijime wrote:
Do you think that it could be acceptable to replace the finibar with some junk/sugary foods in the protocol? For example, would eating a bowl of cereal or donuts or bananas about an hour before the training be ok? My trainings are often in the evenings and are constituted of hard wrestling or weightlifting… what do you think? I REALLY like sugary foods and I was wondering if I could introduce them in my diet this way… Maybe I should wait for the day off to have some cheat meals, but then, since you said that most of it will be stored within four hours, I’m a bit scared. How should I see it?
Thanks for your time.
Not a chance in hell. FINiBARS are NOT fast absorbed carbs. In fact rige oligodextrin and palatinose (the main carbs in the bar) provide for a very steady insulin level whereas sugary foods lead to a spike. If you have a spike of insulin 45 minutes prior to your training, you might very well bonk during our workout.
Junk carbs do not have their place in an athlete’s diet. I feel your pain, I was a sugar bug myself. But you’ll get over it.[/quote]
Ok, thanks for the quick answer… well I guess the day off will be my chance to live my dream life. But how can I deal with the fat storage in this day? You’ve once said that to alleviate the damages of a cheat day, one should have an extreme training session right after. So if sunday is my cheat day (it coincides with my minimal protein day), would a lactate training circuit monday night help? As you’ve pointed it, this sugar thing really is PAIN (I don’t even know if I’ll get over it, since many of the other high level athletes I see eat junk… I hope that these cravings will stop till when I retire.)
1.) If my workout lasts roughly 2hrs, should I add anything to the during workout portion of the protocol (another FINiBAR, more Surge Workout Fuel or CH etc…)?
2.) Sort of bridging off of the first question, Although i’ve read through the thread, i’m still a bit confused as to what we should be taking during the workout until Anaconda/MAG-10 protein comes out.
Do you take a combination of 20g of CH and 1 scoop of Surge Workout Fuel or do you just sip on 20 grams of plain CH?
Why do your workouts last two hours? That’s a pretty long time to be working out…just curious.
I use 24 grams CH (Peptopro) + 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel during the workout…works great and doesn’t ellicit an insulin spike due to the types of carbs it contains and one scoop only contains 21 grams of carbs. I usually start sipping on this about 30 minutes into the workout (workouts typically take about 90 minutes including a 15 minute warm up).
I then do 20 grams of CH about an hour after the workout, and then a whole food meal about 30 minutes after that.
Hey Christian, could you please give this a once-over for me as a sanity check? I think I’ve got it pretty lined out. I don’t have any CH (and truthfully probably won’t until Biotest releases their own), so I’m making doing with the current Biotest staples:
WO - 60: Alpha-GPC (2 caps)
WO - 45: FINiBAR (1 bar)
WO - 30: Surge Workout Fuel (2 scoops) + Creatine (5g)
WO - 15: Surge Recovery (1 scoop)
WO (30 min in): Surge Recovery (1 scoop)
WO + 15: Grow! Whey (1 scoop) + Creatine (5g)
WO + 60: P+C Meal
Thanks for all the hard work you’ve put into this. Your results speak for themselves.
Why do your workouts last two hours? That’s a pretty long time to be working out…just curious.
I use 24 grams CH (Peptopro) + 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel during the workout…works great and doesn’t ellicit an insulin spike due to the types of carbs it contains and one scoop only contains 21 grams of carbs. I usually start sipping on this about 30 minutes into the workout (workouts typically take about 90 minutes including a 15 minute warm up).
I then do 20 grams of CH about an hour after the workout, and then a whole food meal about 30 minutes after that.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.[/quote]
Synergy93-
Thanks for your recommendations, thats pretty much what i have been doing and it’s been working quite well. I just wanted to see how people were doing it. As far as my workout duration, I could probably cut that time down to about 90 minutes but I’m really OCD and end up going overboard sometimes lol
Currently I am leaning out and my weekly activity is 5 lifting sessions with 2 soccer sessions (about 1h 15m worth). I am following the peri-workout protocol as close as I can without all the necessary supplements but would like to know your thoughts on what I should take before/during my soccer sessions. My initial thought was:
-30 1 scoop Surge Recovery
during 1 scoop Surge Recovery
Thibs- I know this is a slightly modified protocol, but would you make any recommendations regarding the amount of SWF or SR pre-workout?
My Current protocol
WO - 60: Alpha-GPC (2 caps)
WO - 45: FINiBAR (depending on what supps I have) (1 bar)
WO - 30: Surge Workout Fuel (1 scoop)
WO - 15: Surge Recovery (1 scoop)
WO (30 min in): Surge Recovery (1 scoop)/ or 20g of CH +5-7g of leucine
WO + 15: 50g’s of Isopure zerocarb
WO + 60: P+C Meal
Currently I am leaning out and my weekly activity is 5 lifting sessions with 2 soccer sessions (about 1h 15m worth). I am following the peri-workout protocol as close as I can without all the necessary supplements but would like to know your thoughts on what I should take before/during my soccer sessions. My initial thought was:
-30 1 scoop Surge Recovery
during 1 scoop Surge Recovery[/quote]
I would actually use workout fuel instead. Don’t want to spike insulin too much before soccer game
so obviously liquids are the key. What about a dextrose and/or malto mix? And if they are somewhat practical, how many grams would be ideal? Thank you Coach
so obviously liquids are the key. What about a dextrose and/or malto mix? And if they are somewhat practical, how many grams would be ideal? Thank you Coach[/quote]
Dextrose would work. 50-75g would be the minimum to get a good effect. Some go up to 200g once a week!!!. But I’d personally recommend to start at 50-75g and work up from there if necessary.
For a clean bulk, as in gaining mass without gaining any fat, how’s this for a protocol:
Most workouts:
-45 1 Finibar
-30 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-10 1 Scoop Surge Recovery + 5 g creatine
during workout: 20g CH
+60 20g CH
+90 meal
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
I finally got me some Casein Hydrosylate
For a clean bulk, as in gaining mass without gaining any fat, how’s this for a protocol:
Most workouts:
-45 1 Finibar
-30 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-10 1 Scoop Surge Recovery + 5 g creatine
during workout: 20g CH
+60 20g CH
+90 meal
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
I finally got me some Casein Hydrosylate
For a clean bulk, as in gaining mass without gaining any fat, how’s this for a protocol:
Most workouts:
-45 1 Finibar
-30 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-10 1 Scoop Surge Recovery + 5 g creatine
during workout: 20g CH
+60 20g CH
+90 meal
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
I finally got me some Casein Hydrosylate
For a clean bulk, as in gaining mass without gaining any fat, how’s this for a protocol:
Most workouts:
-45 1 Finibar
-30 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-10 1 Scoop Surge Recovery + 5 g creatine
during workout: 20g CH
+60 20g CH
+90 meal
[quote]Aneesh Varma wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
I finally got me some Casein Hydrosylate
For a clean bulk, as in gaining mass without gaining any fat, how’s this for a protocol:
Most workouts:
-45 1 Finibar
-30 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-10 1 Scoop Surge Recovery + 5 g creatine
during workout: 20g CH
+60 20g CH
+90 meal
Yes you should… to the casein. It looks like a decent protocol.
How many grams of leucine should be added to the CH?
[/quote]
this has been answered in the thread: 3-5 gms. I personally use 5 gms just to be sure that I am provding my body with what it needs to grow… However, I heard that some use as much as 10 gms… I wouldn’t do that though since CH contains l-leucine anyway
Currently I am leaning out and my weekly activity is 5 lifting sessions with 2 soccer sessions (about 1h 15m worth). I am following the peri-workout protocol as close as I can without all the necessary supplements but would like to know your thoughts on what I should take before/during my soccer sessions. My initial thought was:
-30 1 scoop Surge Recovery
during 1 scoop Surge Recovery
I would actually use workout fuel instead. Don’t want to spike insulin too much before soccer game[/quote]
Hi coach,
I don’t get it… the role of Surge Recovery is to cause an insulin spike that shuttles nutrients in the muscles for them to work optimally. Then the CH allows us to be anabolic (at least, not catabolic) during the training, right?
So why shouldn’t muscles benefit from that insulin spike before the soccer game? Maybe glycogen stores will be used much more that in a standard hypertrophy workout and then having too much of a yo yo effect on the insulin… don’t know, but I read once that Poliquin was applying the same politics as yours, since he “want[ed] blood sugar to be stable before a workout” (or something like that lol).
Thanks a lot, thanks for the methods that are allowing me to drop my bodyfat very fast while gaining (a little bit) muscle and for your patience (and you were right, sugar cravings are disappearing, which is strange since I was almost getting mad a few days before, but, well, it happened).
By the way, good luck with your wife too, who must be extremely pleased with your actual schedule :-D.
so obviously liquids are the key. What about a dextrose and/or malto mix? And if they are somewhat practical, how many grams would be ideal? Thank you Coach
Dextrose would work. 50-75g would be the minimum to get a good effect. Some go up to 200g once a week!!!. But I’d personally recommend to start at 50-75g and work up from there if necessary.[/quote]
what would the timing for Dextrose look like? 45 minutes prior to the workout?