What is everyone using for CH until Anaconda is released?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
zraw wrote:
Bill ! If Anaconda wasnt available , what would you use DURING the workout to maximize the benefits? Thanks
Edit : Assuming you did the protocol Thib outlined :
-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2 Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 Surge Recovery
+60 20g casein hydrolysate
To get partway there while not having Anaconda and having to substitute, and having casein hydrolysate, Iād recommend 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel with 15 g (approx) added CH at the start of the workout. The casein hydrolysate should be very principally di and tripeptides: though that is not the entire measure of things, itās a necessary one.
If in any sense feeling like more sustenance could be used by around the half hour point, half that same amount again at the half hour point would be good. If it doesnāt feel like it would help you, I expect youād do fine without the midway refuel.[/quote]
Thank you very much
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
What is everyone using for CH until Anaconda is released?[/quote]
I just ordered some Peptopro.
Bill,
It just occured to me that I should have asked this to begin with. It would clear up a lot of confusion on timing out each para workout step.
If I eat a FINiBAR, is it ok for it to still be in my stomach or literally burping it up when the next step of Surge Wokrout Fuel is ingested?
In other words is it better to let each step digest or for me to start feeling hungry by the time the next step comes around or -
is the feeling of an empty stomach insignificant when speaking in terms of the time you ingest to the time that you want the insulin response to actually happen?
Weāre now getting into personal belief rather than anything I have any substantiation for.
Myself I do think it preferable for the stomach to be largely emptied before getting the next stage in nutrition or supplementation.
If not ā if itās staying say half-full or more all the time ā then for example much the stuff you took an hour ago that was intended to be delivered into the bloodstream fairly shortly after that point, hasnāt been delivered yet because itās floating around in contents that were added before this stuff made it past the pyloric valve to the small intestine.
So for example I do avoid using excessive volumes of water in my preworkout drinks, as if there is just too much, they arenāt out (or mostly out, which is fine) of the stomach by the time of the next one.
Now when it comes to the FINiBAR, I donāt know. CTās protocol is derived from practice, not just theory, and for all I know in practice some of the FINiBAR does remain and is delivered well after eating and thatās the way itās supposed to be. I just donāt know. As myself (as mentioned), I like FINiBARs but take them at other times than before workout, as a moderate calorie meal replacement.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Weāre now getting into personal belief rather than anything I have any substantiation for.
Myself I do think it preferable for the stomach to be largely emptied before getting the next stage in nutrition or supplementation.
If not ā if itās staying say half-full or more all the time ā then for example much the stuff you took an hour ago that was intended to be delivered into the bloodstream fairly shortly after that point, hasnāt been delivered yet because itās floating around in contents that were added before this stuff made it past the pyloric valve to the small intestine.
So for example I do avoid using excessive volumes of water in my preworkout drinks, as if there is just too much, they arenāt out (or mostly out, which is fine) of the stomach by the time of the next one.
Now when it comes to the FINiBAR, I donāt know. CTās protocol is derived from practice, not just theory, and for all I know in practice some of the FINiBAR does remain and is delivered well after eating and thatās the way itās supposed to be. I just donāt know. As myself (as mentioned), I like FINiBARs but take them at other times than before workout, as a moderate calorie meal replacement.[/quote]
Well I respect your personal belief, that helped alot thank you.
Do you believe that a gradual insulin increase leading up before workout is better that a fast insulin increase before workout?
Thank you, for your time and patience.
Not at all, no problem!
I just donāt know the answer on that. The best answer I can give is that based on results, CTās method, at least for many, is clearly excellent. Not unlikely with time it will be found that for some it should be tweaked one way or another to meet individual needs. But something that has worked outstandingly well for each person tried thus far ā I refer to those CT tried it with ā is never a bad place to start.
I tend to guess that āarea under the curveā (if you plotted levels of insulin vs time and figured how much area, literally, was between that curve and the zero level for that period of time) for the hour before workout is probably roughly the determinative factor. With an hour not being anything like an exact cutoff, and that not being quite literal as closer to the workout is probably more important than further away, even if only an hour further away.
Maybe that statement should be extended further back than an hour. Certainly getting the muscles carb loaded even earlier than an hour is still a good thing for growth.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
zraw wrote:
Bill ! If Anaconda wasnt available , what would you use DURING the workout to maximize the benefits? Thanks
Edit : Assuming you did the protocol Thib outlined :
-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2 Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 Surge Recovery
+60 20g casein hydrolysate
To get partway there while not having Anaconda and having to substitute, and having casein hydrolysate, Iād recommend 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel with 15 g (approx) added CH at the start of the workout. The casein hydrolysate should be very principally di and tripeptides: though that is not the entire measure of things, itās a necessary one.
If in any sense feeling like more sustenance could be used by around the half hour point, half that same amount again at the half hour point would be good. If it doesnāt feel like it would help you, I expect youād do fine without the midway refuel.[/quote]
Bill, could you give me the reasonning behind having Surge Workout Fuel + CH during the workout? As opposed to lets sayā¦ peptopro + leucine + beta-alanine ?
The way CT explains it, it seems the carbs during the workout dont really change a thingā¦?
If the muscles are quite carb loaded going into the workout and the workout is not so very long, I can see the point that providing continued glucose, despite the muscles burning glucose rapidly, is not necessary.
However, some are saying they donāt want to load quite such a high amount of carbs beforehand or even feel ill if they do, and so certainly for them it makes sense to provide the carbs during, to replace at least some of that which is being burned as they go.
Also it certainly isnāt the case that the muscles canāt do a great job of glucose uptake during exercise.
I donāt at all dispute that CTās method works as stated. It also works to do it as I described: the difference in method would be particularly important if not carb-loading beforehand quite as much. For example, I donāt have the 2 FINiBARs, and KeepAwaySheeple seems to do better without the -15 Surge Recovery hit.
Surge Workout Fuel + CH is much closer to Anaconda than what you describe is.
Itās not at all the case that the special carbs in Surge Workout Fuel are useless during the workout. Those that have used the product will know this.
Though, with heavy enough carb loading beforehand ā with Surge Workout Fuel being a part of that ā the job can be taken care of that way as well.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If the muscles are quite carb loaded going into the workout and the workout is not so very long, I can see the point that providing continued glucose, despite the muscles burning glucose rapidly, is not necessary.
However, some are saying they donāt want to load quite such a high amount of carbs beforehand or even feel ill if they do, and so certainly for them it makes sense to provide the carbs during, to replace at least some of that which is being burned as they go.
Also it certainly isnāt the case that the muscles canāt do a great job of glucose uptake during exercise.
I donāt at all dispute that CTās method works as stated. It also works to do it as I described: the difference in method would be particularly important if not carb-loading beforehand quite as much. For example, I donāt have the 2 FINiBARs, and KeepAwaySheeple seems to do better without the -15 Surge Recovery hit.
Surge Workout Fuel + CH is much closer to Anaconda than what you describe is.
Itās not at all the case that the special carbs in Surge Workout Fuel are useless during the workout. Those that have used the product will know this.
Though, with heavy enough carb loading beforehand ā with Surge Workout Fuel being a part of that ā the job can be taken care of that way as well.[/quote]
So if one was to carb load beforehand and use the 2 FINiBARs + 2 Surge Recovery + 2 Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Workout Fuel + peptopro would still be the best option?
Iāve tried the minimum protocol for the week and here are my results:
-45 1 FINiBAR
-30 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
-15 1/2 scoop Surge Recovery
sip other half Surge Recovery during workout
+15 2 scoops Grow! Whey
Felt good, didnāt feel any stronger, but felt good during the workout which is not always the case in the past.
On my legs day, I usually push myself to the point of nauteousness from squats, but this time I took a FINiBAR half way through and felt better afterward. Not sure if itās mental, but just glad I no longer felt like throwing up.
On a completely separate note, is it recommended to take anything before or after an interval session like 20 min of sprints or 2 hours of pickup basketball?
[quote]zraw wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If the muscles are quite carb loaded going into the workout and the workout is not so very long, I can see the point that providing continued glucose, despite the muscles burning glucose rapidly, is not necessary.
However, some are saying they donāt want to load quite such a high amount of carbs beforehand or even feel ill if they do, and so certainly for them it makes sense to provide the carbs during, to replace at least some of that which is being burned as they go.
Also it certainly isnāt the case that the muscles canāt do a great job of glucose uptake during exercise.
I donāt at all dispute that CTās method works as stated. It also works to do it as I described: the difference in method would be particularly important if not carb-loading beforehand quite as much. For example, I donāt have the 2 FINiBARs, and KeepAwaySheeple seems to do better without the -15 Surge Recovery hit.
Surge Workout Fuel + CH is much closer to Anaconda than what you describe is.
Itās not at all the case that the special carbs in Surge Workout Fuel are useless during the workout. Those that have used the product will know this.
Though, with heavy enough carb loading beforehand ā with Surge Workout Fuel being a part of that ā the job can be taken care of that way as well.
So if one was to carb load beforehand and use the 2 FINiBARs + 2 Surge Recovery + 2 Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Workout Fuel + peptopro would still be the best option?
[/quote]
Yes, IMO, though you might not need quite as much loading beforehand.
Really itās only a 170 calorie difference, so maybe drop the 2 scoops of Surge Recovery at -15 described above to only one, ultimately giving very close to the same total carb delivery. Or if preferred perhaps reduce the 2 FINiBARs to one. That also would give almost exactly the same total carbs.
The sprints or pickup basketball activities are among the sorts of sports activities or training Surge Workout Fuel was designed for.
There you likely do not want any big carb or other food loading beforehand.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
zraw wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
If the muscles are quite carb loaded going into the workout and the workout is not so very long, I can see the point that providing continued glucose, despite the muscles burning glucose rapidly, is not necessary.
However, some are saying they donāt want to load quite such a high amount of carbs beforehand or even feel ill if they do, and so certainly for them it makes sense to provide the carbs during, to replace at least some of that which is being burned as they go.
Also it certainly isnāt the case that the muscles canāt do a great job of glucose uptake during exercise.
I donāt at all dispute that CTās method works as stated. It also works to do it as I described: the difference in method would be particularly important if not carb-loading beforehand quite as much. For example, I donāt have the 2 FINiBARs, and KeepAwaySheeple seems to do better without the -15 Surge Recovery hit.
Surge Workout Fuel + CH is much closer to Anaconda than what you describe is.
Itās not at all the case that the special carbs in Surge Workout Fuel are useless during the workout. Those that have used the product will know this.
Though, with heavy enough carb loading beforehand ā with Surge Workout Fuel being a part of that ā the job can be taken care of that way as well.
So if one was to carb load beforehand and use the 2 FINiBARs + 2 Surge Recovery + 2 Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Workout Fuel + peptopro would still be the best option?
Yes, IMO, though you might not need quite as much loading beforehand.
Really itās only a 170 calorie difference, so maybe drop the 2 scoops of Surge Recovery at -15 described above to only one, ultimately giving very close to the same total carb delivery. Or if preferred perhaps reduce the 2 FINiBARs to one. That also would give almost exactly the same total carbs.[/quote]
Perfect, thx a lot, I appreciate
will taking Surge Workout Fuel, Anaconda, Surge Recovery etc. will I be awake half the night if I workout at 8:00 and go to bed at 10:00?
Just trying to see how wound up Iāll beā¦assuming you get wound up at all i supposeā¦
Anyone else noticed that, aside from Anaconda, the thing with the highest cost in the protocol are the FINiBARs ?!
[quote]skohcl wrote:
Gymjunkie wrote:
Hey CT
Regarding the recent PROTOCOL, using workout fuel, Surge recovery etcā¦which I have no doubt works wonders for gaining mass, but my question is, what if you are insulin resistant?
Would one be able to simply use the theory but using a no carb para-workout plan, such as taking in glutamine pre-workout to spike insulin and fast protein during/after etc.
From my understanding, large doses of glutamine will still spike insuline and shuttle the amino acids and protein into the muscle. I know this will not be anywhere near OPTIMAL comparingly, but would it be superior to taking the regular no carb post workout shake - glutamine,glycine and whey?
I suppose a test would be the only way to answer this.
Thanks,
GJ
Most people who are insulin resistant are overweight. The more fat you have the more insulin your body releases to get the same response, and vise versa. Unless someone has type I diabetes or is over 20% bf, they should be able to get the spikes of insulin necessary for the proper function of this protocol, I would assume.
And if someone is insulin resistant, using glutamine would have the same effect as a carb, it would generate insulin, and if they were resistant, then they would need more insulin to get the same effect as someone who wasnāt. Like with type 2 diabetes, these people are so insulin resistant they need shots of insulin to get the shit to start working and reducing their blood sugar levels.
Iām fairly confident on all this stuff, but could be wrong.
[/quote]
Typically, you are correct, but you can be insulin resistant and lean. A friend of mine if at about 6-7% and is still insulin resistant. It takes time to fix this and ensure improved insulin sensitivity and therefore an improved response from carbs(insulin).
I base my knowledge in this from Poliquinās Biosignature principles, which I have gotten great results from, since I have followed the protocols to fix certain issues I have.
Thanks for the info anyway man,
GJ
OK Bill,
It was back day, just got done training and I felt completely better this time.
Here is how I timed everything, man what a difference this made -
-90 1 FINiBAR
-60 Alpha-GPC
-40 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During training - sipped 1 scoop Surge and finished with 20 minutes left in the workout.
Also I decreased the amount of water I was mixing with the Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery and made it much more condensed (before I was mixing per directions) except for the 1 scoop of Surge Recovery being sipped during my workout. I like to have a 32 oz bottle of water with that.
Iāll probably just listen to my body as far as the digestion goes because thatās what I did here and it made a huge difference. I allowed each step to digest and waited until my stomach felt somewhat settled but not too empty. I wasnāt hungry persay, but just comfortable for the next step to be ingested.
About 10 minutes after the workout was finished, I started feeling a little hungry. Does the timing sound pretty good there?
What would be ideal to consume after the above protocol? I just had 2 scoops Grow! Whey. Do you think I another P+C meal is neccesary for maximizing muscle gains?
After the Grow! Whey can the remaining two meals of the day be P+F meaning no more carbs for the day once the workout is over?
[quote]KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
OK Bill,
It was back day, just got done training and I felt completely better this time.
Here is how I timed everything, man what a difference this made -
-90 1 FINiBAR
-60 Alpha-GPC
-40 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During training - sipped 1 scoop Surge and finished with 20 minutes left in the workout.
Also I decreased the amount of water I was mixing with the Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery and made it much more condensed (before I was mixing per directions) except for the 1 scoop of Surge Recovery being sipped during my workout. I like to have a 32 oz bottle of water with that.
Iāll probably just listen to my body as far as the digestion goes because thatās what I did here and it made a huge difference. I allowed each step to digest and waited until my stomach felt somewhat settled but not too empty. I wasnāt hungry persay, but just comfortable for the next step to be ingested.
About 10 minutes after the workout was finished, I started feeling a little hungry. Does the timing sound pretty good there?
What would be ideal to consume after the above protocol? I just had 2 scoops Grow! Whey. Do you think I another P+C meal is neccesary for maximizing muscle gains?
After the Grow! Whey can the remaining two meals of the day be P+F meaning no more carbs for the day once the workout is over?[/quote]
Looking at CTās, for lack of a better phrase, meal plan that was outline in an earlier thread, it seems he has only P+F meals after his workout
[quote]KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
OK Bill,
It was back day, just got done training and I felt completely better this time.
Here is how I timed everything, man what a difference this made -
-90 1 FINiBAR
-60 Alpha-GPC
-40 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During training - sipped 1 scoop Surge and finished with 20 minutes left in the workout.
Also I decreased the amount of water I was mixing with the Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery and made it much more condensed (before I was mixing per directions) except for the 1 scoop of Surge Recovery being sipped during my workout. I like to have a 32 oz bottle of water with that.
Iāll probably just listen to my body as far as the digestion goes because thatās what I did here and it made a huge difference. I allowed each step to digest and waited until my stomach felt somewhat settled but not too empty. I wasnāt hungry persay, but just comfortable for the next step to be ingested.
About 10 minutes after the workout was finished, I started feeling a little hungry. Does the timing sound pretty good there?
What would be ideal to consume after the above protocol? I just had 2 scoops Grow! Whey. Do you think I another P+C meal is neccesary for maximizing muscle gains?
After the Grow! Whey can the remaining two meals of the day be P+F meaning no more carbs for the day once the workout is over?[/quote]
Sounds good! Sounds very good actually.
It seems to me that nutrition the rest of the day really has no special rules after the paraworkout protocol, except that it seems to me (just personal experience) that total calories can be surprisingly high. Not by a stunning, unbelievable amount, but definitely more than I expected. (Iām cutting rapidly at a little over 3000 cal/day, which ordinarily for me would result in no cutting at all.)
That is with both the paraworkout protocol and 2 amino pulses, and training 2 hours per day. With less training that many calories would probably, regardless of effect of these methods, be too much for me I would guess. But still, something is going on.
Itās certainly fine to have no or little carbs the rest of the day if desired.