lets say im training someone for a sport that doesnt require a certain amount of leannes, and an bulk/strength is valued way above low fat levels, can there be a difference in optimal peri w/o nutrion?. The dude im training is a woodchopper, and apart from things like insulin sensitivity, the extra fat doesnt really effect the sporting outcome. would a different protocol around training apply?extra carbs, aminos?
cheers-
[quote]hotdog.350 wrote:
lets say im training someone for a sport that doesnt require a certain amount of leannes, and an bulk/strength is valued way above low fat levels, can there be a difference in optimal peri w/o nutrion?. The dude im training is a woodchopper, and apart from things like insulin sensitivity, the extra fat doesnt really effect the sporting outcome. would a different protocol around training apply?extra carbs, aminos?
cheers-[/quote]
Let me tell you, the para-workout protocol is solid and will give great results as it is to most individuals. I donāt really see a need to change it for your guy, except maybe adding one more scoop of SURGE RECOVERY before the workout AND adding carbs to the shake consumed 60-90 minutes after the session.
I would have the RECOVERY pre-workout (10-15 minutes out) so that insulin will be spiked DURING the workout. If you gradually drink your protein throughout your workout there will be no real need to have a specific post-workout shake right after the workout.
So the protocol could become:
60mins before workout = 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30mins before workout = Surge Workout Fuel (2 scoops)
10 minutes before workout = Surge Recovery (2 scoops +5g creatine)
During workout sip 20g of casein hydrolysate
60 mins post workout = 20g casein hydrolysate + 5g creatine
Although your protocol would also work, albeit not optimally from what I experienced this week. [/quote]
Thibs, referring to the protocol above- you would leave out the Surge Recovery for post workout? Does ingesting it pre-workout have the same effect as taking advantage of the post workout window? I thought post workout was the best time to create an insulin spike.
Hi coach,
Iām on the anabolic diet, how can i change the indication to still fit into the less than 30 grams of carbs a day?
thx
[quote]Big_Phil wrote:
Hi coach,
Iām on the anabolic diet, how can i change the indication to still fit into the less than 30 grams of carbs a day?
thx[/quote]
You really canātā¦ ketogenic diets are very effective for fat loss, sadly they do not leave room for optimal growth stimulation protocols.
Christian
so with this protocol you have a whey shake 90 mins post-workout. Does this mean you donāt recommend a big P+C meal post workout? Half the time Iām training to kick my own ass in the gym so I earn that big post workout meal, which I usually try to make a social meal out with friends. Is the whey shake really superior to a solid food meal? I know the whey will digest faster, but plenty of dudes got big off a big meal after training. Does it really make a huge difference?
thanks in advance
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
GoDawgs wrote:
I, like 99.99% of the training world, donāt have access to Anaconda or any of the other high end secret supplements that you lucky ones have your hands on. What would be the best alternative para-workout nutrition for those who have access to the currently available Biotest supps(Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Recovery, BCAA, etc.) and other easily available supps?
Also, could you provide some cheaper alternatives to those who canāt afford the cost of certain protocols but want to optimize WO nutrition within their budget?
Thanks
If you canāt get Anaconda the protocols to do are as follow:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops[/quote]
Looks very interesting, and very different than what a lot of us are used too. I have noticed that in some posts you donāt have a shake until 60 minutes post workout, is this only when ingesting hydrolysate during workouts? Also, if we have some whey hydrolysate would we just need 1 scoop of that instead of 2 scoops grow? Thanks for all the help.
[quote]MontisVerdes wrote:
I would have the RECOVERY pre-workout (10-15 minutes out) so that insulin will be spiked DURING the workout. If you gradually drink your protein throughout your workout there will be no real need to have a specific post-workout shake right after the workout.
So the protocol could become:
60mins before workout = 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30mins before workout = Surge Workout Fuel (2 scoops)
10 minutes before workout = Surge Recovery (2 scoops +5g creatine)
During workout sip 20g of casein hydrolysate
60 mins post workout = 20g casein hydrolysate + 5g creatine
Although your protocol would also work, albeit not optimally from what I experienced this week.
Thibs, referring to the protocol above- you would leave out the Surge Recovery for post workout? Does ingesting it pre-workout have the same effect as taking advantage of the post workout window? I thought post workout was the best time to create an insulin spike.[/quote]
MontisVerdes, go back and read Thibs response to me on page one of this topic. Since I would be comsuming casein hydrolysate during my whole workout, there wouldnāt really be a need for an immediate post workout shake. Good information.
[quote]Mike19727 wrote:
MontisVerdes wrote:
I would have the RECOVERY pre-workout (10-15 minutes out) so that insulin will be spiked DURING the workout. If you gradually drink your protein throughout your workout there will be no real need to have a specific post-workout shake right after the workout.
So the protocol could become:
60mins before workout = 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30mins before workout = Surge Workout Fuel (2 scoops)
10 minutes before workout = Surge Recovery (2 scoops +5g creatine)
During workout sip 20g of casein hydrolysate
60 mins post workout = 20g casein hydrolysate + 5g creatine
Although your protocol would also work, albeit not optimally from what I experienced this week.
Thibs, referring to the protocol above- you would leave out the Surge Recovery for post workout? Does ingesting it pre-workout have the same effect as taking advantage of the post workout window? I thought post workout was the best time to create an insulin spike.
Read Thibs response to me a few posts above. Since I would be comsuming casein hydrolysate during my whole workout, there wouldnāt really be a need for immediate post workout shake. Good info.
[/quote]
Thanks Mike, I must have missed this post.
[quote]seabass34 wrote:
Mike19727 wrote:
MontisVerdes wrote:
I would have the RECOVERY pre-workout (10-15 minutes out) so that insulin will be spiked DURING the workout. If you gradually drink your protein throughout your workout there will be no real need to have a specific post-workout shake right after the workout.
So the protocol could become:
60mins before workout = 2 caps Alpha-GPC
30mins before workout = Surge Workout Fuel (2 scoops)
10 minutes before workout = Surge Recovery (2 scoops +5g creatine)
During workout sip 20g of casein hydrolysate
60 mins post workout = 20g casein hydrolysate + 5g creatine
Although your protocol would also work, albeit not optimally from what I experienced this week.
Thibs, referring to the protocol above- you would leave out the Surge Recovery for post workout? Does ingesting it pre-workout have the same effect as taking advantage of the post workout window? I thought post workout was the best time to create an insulin spike.
Read Thibs response to me a few posts above. Since I would be comsuming casein hydrolysate during my whole workout, there wouldnāt really be a need for immediate post workout shake. Good info.
Thanks Mike, I must have missed this post.[/quote]
No, problem, this stuff is super new to me as well. Cant wait to try it out.
If we dont have Finibar, what kind of food or supplement can we take instead to get the same amount and kind of carbs?
thx for the quick reply
Christian,
would this protocol work in a fat loss phase as well? If yes, i was going to add amino pulse in the morning before breakfast, adjust carbs + fat intake for solid meals on workout days and eat only fats and proteins on off days. Your thoughts?
If you canāt get Anaconda the protocols to do are as follow:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
Hi Thib,
Iāve been taking Beta-7 on non training days three times a day and two times a day, plus Surge Workout Fuel on training days. With the new protocols and since beta alanine is in the Workout Fuel, is it even necessary for me to take Beta-7 anymore? Thanks.
Coach,
How would you apply this para-workout strategy to āmetabolic trainingā sessions or short (<30 minutes) workouts with little to no rest? I guess what Iām saying is, what if thereās not time to drink CH during (or drink anything during may induce serious vomiting)? Do you just move the CH to an immediate post-workout drink?
[quote]Mike19727 wrote:
Hi Thib,
Iāve been taking Beta-7 on non training days three times a day and two times a day, plus Surge Workout Fuel on training days. With the new protocols and since beta alanine is in the Workout Fuel, is it even necessary for me to take Beta-7 anymore? Thanks. [/quote]
Iād keep one serving of Beta-7 during the day (morning)
[quote]Big_Phil wrote:
If we dont have Finibar, what kind of food or supplement can we take instead to get the same amount and kind of carbs?
thx for the quick reply[/quote]
Thatās the thing. If you look at the macronutrients ratio there doesnāt seem to be anything special about the bars. The REAL secret is the use of the proper ratio of rice oligodextrin and palatinose. In the proper ratio, these two carbs are extremely osmotic and suck up everything inside the muscle.
These two carbs are also special in that they have a super low glycemic index and are slowly absorbed, YET they do not seem to be hard to digest.
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
Christian
so with this protocol you have a whey shake 90 mins post-workout. Does this mean you donāt recommend a big P+C meal post workout? Half the time Iām training to kick my own ass in the gym so I earn that big post workout meal, which I usually try to make a social meal out with friends. Is the whey shake really superior to a solid food meal? I know the whey will digest faster, but plenty of dudes got big off a big meal after training. Does it really make a huge difference?
thanks in advance[/quote]
Recent studies show that YES it makes a difference if a second shake is ingested 60-90 min. post-workout.
YES it is also true that plenty of guys got strong without resorting to liquid nutrition (or to any supplements in fact), but if you had that kind of genetic you wouldnāt be here asking that question :).
In an ideal world, to stimulate as much growth as possible, and time permitting, you would have your para-workout protocol, 60-90 min. later another pulse shake and 30 minutes after that, you would have the big meal.
Hey Thib just thought Iād give you a rundown of what I plan on doing:
15-20 minutes PREWO: 2 Scoops Workout Fuel
Arrive at gym (followed by 10 minute dynamic warmup): 1 Serving Surge
30-45 minutes into workout: 0.5-1 Serving Surge (since no Anaconda. . 0.5 on upper days, 1 on lower body days)
Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery are the only supps. I use, besides Spike. . . just wondering what ya think?
-Matt
[quote]slimsaw00 wrote:
Hey Thib just thought Iād give you a rundown of what I plan on doing:
15-20 minutes PREWO: 2 Scoops Workout Fuel
Arrive at gym (followed by 10 minute dynamic warmup): 1 Serving Surge
30-45 minutes into workout: 0.5-1 Serving Surge (since no Anaconda. . 0.5 on upper days, 1 on lower body days)
Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery are the only supps. I use, besides Spike. . . just wondering what ya think?
-Matt
[/quote]
With minimal product investment, that is about the best you can do. It WILL be effective and does respect the logic behind the complete protocol. Good job.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
spadesofaces wrote:
Christian
so with this protocol you have a whey shake 90 mins post-workout. Does this mean you donāt recommend a big P+C meal post workout? Half the time Iām training to kick my own ass in the gym so I earn that big post workout meal, which I usually try to make a social meal out with friends. Is the whey shake really superior to a solid food meal? I know the whey will digest faster, but plenty of dudes got big off a big meal after training. Does it really make a huge difference?
thanks in advance
Recent studies show that YES it makes a difference if a second shake is ingested 60-90 min. post-workout.
YES it is also true that plenty of guys got strong without resorting to liquid nutrition (or to any supplements in fact), but if you had that kind of genetic you wouldnāt be here asking that question :).
In an ideal world, to stimulate as much growth as possible, and time permitting, you would have your para-workout protocol, 60-90 min. later another pulse shake and 30 minutes after that, you would have the big meal.
[/quote]
touche hahaha
thanks for the feedback, Iām gonna look into getting some CH until Anaconda is released and give the protocol a try for a while, bank account pending of course