Questions About Fat Loss

Training
762

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]pumped340 wrote:That’s really interesting. So, in a sense, high reps really can lead to increased fat loss…

[/quote]

That’s NOT what I’m saying.

I’m saying that high volume work (high reps or more preferably stuff like prowler or sled work) can lead to adaptations that will make subsequent fat loss efforts more effective.

It’s not that high reps help lose fat, it’s more that the long term adaptations can make your body better suited to mobilize fat. It’s not a huge difference, but it’s a significant one.[/quote]

Right, that’s what I meant by saying it leads to more (effective) fat loss, not necessarily that it causes it.
[/quote]

Good, because there is a distinction. I don’t like the ‘‘switch to high reps’’ mentality when dieting down… to me that’s the fastest way to lose muscle.

Rather, I would keep a certain amount of higher rep stuff or GPP-type work (or even cardio) year round.

763

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
High rep stuff certainly can help with vascularization, but it takes months for it to take effect. Sprinting, sled work and prowler pushing are also great options, but again it takes a lot of time to build enough new capillaries.

Have I know a guy with that problem who overcame it? You will like and dislike the answer. Yes I have: one of the original IBB guys but it took him 3 years to have his leg definition catch up to his upper body definition. He didn’t train intensely all the time, had he done that he might have done it in a years and a half.

That’s if the problem is low vascularization. If it’s an hormonal imbalance it can be solved a bit quicker.[/quote]

Thanks coach, thats definitly giving me some direction to work towards, what I’ve started doing is I stil do the i-bodybuilder program, infact im on the leg spec now, but at the end of each workout i do some sort of high rep stuff for an extra 30min, I’ll incorporate that prowler work and sprinting in there somewhere as well now as you suggested.

Just one more question for you, I still have 3 months of dieting ahead of me, do you think its possible to get to a stage where i have literaly no fat left in my upper body to lose, then fat loss would have no option but to shift to lower body, as there is no other fat to tap into?

764

[quote]Bobsta wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
High rep stuff certainly can help with vascularization, but it takes months for it to take effect. Sprinting, sled work and prowler pushing are also great options, but again it takes a lot of time to build enough new capillaries.

Have I know a guy with that problem who overcame it? You will like and dislike the answer. Yes I have: one of the original IBB guys but it took him 3 years to have his leg definition catch up to his upper body definition. He didn’t train intensely all the time, had he done that he might have done it in a years and a half.

That’s if the problem is low vascularization. If it’s an hormonal imbalance it can be solved a bit quicker.[/quote]

Thanks coach, thats definitly giving me some direction to work towards, what I’ve started doing is I stil do the i-bodybuilder program, infact im on the leg spec now, but at the end of each workout i do some sort of high rep stuff for an extra 30min, I’ll incorporate that prowler work and sprinting in there somewhere as well now as you suggested.

Just one more question for you, I still have 3 months of dieting ahead of me, do you think its possible to get to a stage where i have literaly no fat left in my upper body to lose, then fat loss would have no option but to shift to lower body, as there is no other fat to tap into? [/quote]

First I’d have to see what you look like. But normally, most people who are roughly 10% body fat can get in stage shape in 10-12 weeks.

It’s not as simple as ‘‘having no choice but to tap into lower body fat’’. My ex-girlfriend was a natural competitive bodybuilder. While her upper body could get ripped very easily, her lower body followed very slowly.

At one contest her upper body was ready about 6 weeks out, little to no fat to lose, but her lower body was still way away from ready. You’d think that in those 6 weeks she lost her lower body fat because ‘‘her body didn’t have a choice’’ but in reality what happened is that her fat loss stalled. Then she tried to kick everything up a notch (more training, more cardio, lower calories) and ended up losing muscle mass (burning muscle tissue for energy) and only a little bit of lower body fat.

The next year she was able to get her legs defined because she maintained a ‘‘vascularization’’ component to her training year round and when pre-contest time came, the lower body fat got off more easily.

I’m not saying that you are doomed. I haven’t seen what you look like or tested your body fat, so I can’t make fully objective and precise comments.

765

Excellent info here. Thanks, CT!

766

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Do I appear to be insulin resistant, or do I just need to eat better?

767

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Sorry Couldn’t figure out how to add 2 pictures to one reply

Side view -

768

Hi Thibs. I have read most of this thread, and sometimes it is overwhelming. As I am an extremely busy college student I have to make it simple or will not stick to it. So I tried to come up with a diet plan for me, and I would love if you could tell me if this would work or is extremely stupid. I tried winging it but discovered that I ate around 1500kcal.

So my daily plan (every day!) would be.

Cook all at once and finish it in a day:

  • Bag of mixed veggies (700 gram)
  • 10%F minced beef (600 gram)
  • Liter no fat milk + whey (peri workout, none on off days)
  • 10 gram fish oil

Totals according to Fitday:

80g fat
150g carbs (fiber 30g)
233g protein.
calories: 2160

My maintenance calories according to different estimates is around 2300-2500.

My training would be WS4SB:

Monday: AM sprints + PM upper body.
Tuesday: Lower body
Wednesday: active recovery
Thursday: Upper body
Friday: Sport specific (soccer).

Could this work or is it plain stupid to eat everyday the same?

Thanks in advance!

769

[quote]theeathlete wrote:
Do I appear to be insulin resistant, or do I just need to eat better?[/quote]

You just need to eat and train better.

770

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Bobsta wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
High rep stuff certainly can help with vascularization, but it takes months for it to take effect. Sprinting, sled work and prowler pushing are also great options, but again it takes a lot of time to build enough new capillaries.

Have I know a guy with that problem who overcame it? You will like and dislike the answer. Yes I have: one of the original IBB guys but it took him 3 years to have his leg definition catch up to his upper body definition. He didn’t train intensely all the time, had he done that he might have done it in a years and a half.

That’s if the problem is low vascularization. If it’s an hormonal imbalance it can be solved a bit quicker.[/quote]

Thanks coach, thats definitly giving me some direction to work towards, what I’ve started doing is I stil do the i-bodybuilder program, infact im on the leg spec now, but at the end of each workout i do some sort of high rep stuff for an extra 30min, I’ll incorporate that prowler work and sprinting in there somewhere as well now as you suggested.

Just one more question for you, I still have 3 months of dieting ahead of me, do you think its possible to get to a stage where i have literaly no fat left in my upper body to lose, then fat loss would have no option but to shift to lower body, as there is no other fat to tap into? [/quote]

First I’d have to see what you look like. But normally, most people who are roughly 10% body fat can get in stage shape in 10-12 weeks.

It’s not as simple as ‘‘having no choice but to tap into lower body fat’’. My ex-girlfriend was a natural competitive bodybuilder. While her upper body could get ripped very easily, her lower body followed very slowly.

At one contest her upper body was ready about 6 weeks out, little to no fat to lose, but her lower body was still way away from ready. You’d think that in those 6 weeks she lost her lower body fat because ‘‘her body didn’t have a choice’’ but in reality what happened is that her fat loss stalled. Then she tried to kick everything up a notch (more training, more cardio, lower calories) and ended up losing muscle mass (burning muscle tissue for energy) and only a little bit of lower body fat.

The next year she was able to get her legs defined because she maintained a ‘‘vascularization’’ component to her training year round and when pre-contest time came, the lower body fat got off more easily.

I’m not saying that you are doomed. I haven’t seen what you look like or tested your body fat, so I can’t make fully objective and precise comments.[/quote]

Alright thanks again coach, I hope im not dooemd! I guess we’ll know in 3 months time, in the meantime i"ll try and upload some pics to get your opinion in the next couple of days if thats cool with you, I’d say I already look like the level 3 pic you have on that “6 days to shreded” article, in the upper boday, I even have vains on my stomach! and judging by people’s comments, every body seems to think im ready now, but they havent seen the legs and more importantly the back side, the caliper measurments at the highest which is the glute area is around 15 where my abs are 3!!

Im also covering the issue of maybe excess estrogen as you mentioned just in case, but most likely that won’t be the case as i show no other symptoms of high estrogen levels, i.e. my chest area is as dry and lean as it can be. So i guess most likely its just a genetic “fat ass”
thing I’ve inherited from someone in the family :slight_smile:

Anyway i’ll try and post up some pics, once again thanks a lot for all the info, as i said before its definitly given me a push in the right direction

771

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
My ex-girlfriend was a natural competitive bodybuilder. While her upper body could get ripped very easily, her lower body followed very slowly.

At one contest her upper body was ready about 6 weeks out, little to no fat to lose, but her lower body was still way away from ready. You’d think that in those 6 weeks she lost her lower body fat because ‘‘her body didn’t have a choice’’ but in reality what happened is that her fat loss stalled. Then she tried to kick everything up a notch (more training, more cardio, lower calories) and ended up losing muscle mass (burning muscle tissue for energy) and only a little bit of lower body fat.

The next year she was able to get her legs defined because she maintained a ‘‘vascularization’’ component to her training year round and when pre-contest time came, the lower body fat got off more easily.[/quote]
Wasn’t your ex-girlfriend’s lower body fat a sign of too much estrogen?
Could she had more lower body definition with correct supplementation?

772

hey coach I was wondering,Im on TRT 100mg a week,my ENDO does not give any Arimidex,seems a lot of DR’S DO, he fights with me about estrogen,saying its making me fat,your estrogen is high because your
fat,but since I started TRT,Ive gotten fatter…Ive dome a lot of reading,50% I need E2 meds…50% seem to say at 100mg a week ,its not needed ? other then that the TRT seems like its working except of gotten more ‘round’ and my body weight went up,thanks again

773

CT

Im going on a fat cutting phase and trying to spike insulin only during my workout…i taking Metabolic Drive 3 times a day…my workouts are at 7pm…so no stims near workout…i take MD 2 hours before and then would like to follow protocol 2…should i try to avoid the insulin surge or try training earlier

774

[quote]mmajic wrote:
CT

Im going on a fat cutting phase and trying to spike insulin only during my workout…i taking Metabolic Drive 3 times a day…my workouts are at 7pm…so no stims near workout…i take MD 2 hours before and then would like to follow protocol 2…should i try to avoid the insulin surge or try training earlier[/quote]

There is zero problem with spiking insulin pre-workout even if it is in the pm.

775

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

As far as your specific issue. Yohimbine might help a bit, and also any product that can lower estrogen levels. But I found that the issue with lower body fat is often one of bad vascularization. The more blood vessels you have in an area, the easier it is to mobilize (and thus burn) fat. Many individuals have low vascularization levels in their lower body (especially women) which makes it harder to lose fat there.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I trust the research on it yet, but there is a machine called Ultrashape – legal in Canada now, not the U.S. – that supposedly uses ultrasound to kill fat cells without hurting the surrounding tissue. The fatty acids from the lipocytes are put in the bloodstream and then broken down by the liver without getting redeposited in fat stores. In the future, this might be part of a way to deal with fat deposits with low vascularization. There will probably be people who would just use it to avoid exercise, but bodybuilders might use it intelligently, to help improve their hormonal profile (ex. less lower body fat, less estrogen).

776

[quote]Brian Smith wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

As far as your specific issue. Yohimbine might help a bit, and also any product that can lower estrogen levels. But I found that the issue with lower body fat is often one of bad vascularization. The more blood vessels you have in an area, the easier it is to mobilize (and thus burn) fat. Many individuals have low vascularization levels in their lower body (especially women) which makes it harder to lose fat there.
[/quote]

I’m not sure I trust the research on it yet, but there is a machine called Ultrashape – legal in Canada now, not the U.S. – that supposedly uses ultrasound to kill fat cells without hurting the surrounding tissue. The fatty acids from the lipocytes are put in the bloodstream and then broken down by the liver without getting redeposited in fat stores. In the future, this might be part of a way to deal with fat deposits with low vascularization. There will probably be people who would just use it to avoid exercise, but bodybuilders might use it intelligently, to help improve their hormonal profile (ex. less lower body fat, less estrogen).[/quote]

Yes, I’ve heard about that machine… time will tell if it’s effective or not.

But it’s NOT the lower body fat that leads to high estrogen. Rather it’s an excess of estrogen that favors depositing fat in the lower body.

777

Coach,
I’ve got a question about a low protein/high carb day while dieting. What would be a good amount of total carbs and sugar (mostly from fruit!) to shoot for if you’re approximately 170 lbs, 11-12% bf.

Right now I am getting about 45g from “bad” sources (2 scoops of Italian ice cream from down the road - my “cheat meal”, followed usually by a 30-90min walk). The rest is in form of vegetables, fruit and about 80g oats (50g of carbs) in the morning, plus trace carbs in nuts.

I am trying to keep my protein under 100g and fat around 90-110g on that day.

Thanks,
B.

778

[quote]theeathlete wrote:
Do I appear to be insulin resistant, or do I just need to eat better? 2 pics in 2 different posts so you remember[/quote]
in his case, would you recommend him cutting a bit of fat (which by no means is a lot) or would increasing calories be recommended?

779

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Brian Smith wrote:

[quote]

I’m not sure I trust the research on it yet, but there is a machine called Ultrashape – legal in Canada now, not the U.S. – that supposedly uses ultrasound to kill fat cells without hurting the surrounding tissue. The fatty acids from the lipocytes are put in the bloodstream and then broken down by the liver without getting redeposited in fat stores. In the future, this might be part of a way to deal with fat deposits with low vascularization. There will probably be people who would just use it to avoid exercise, but bodybuilders might use it intelligently, to help improve their hormonal profile (ex. less lower body fat, less estrogen).[/quote]

Yes, I’ve heard about that machine… time will tell if it’s effective or not.

But it’s NOT the lower body fat that leads to high estrogen. Rather it’s an excess of estrogen that favors depositing fat in the lower body.[/quote]

But adipose tissue is estrogenic in general, correct?

780

Coach,

  1. Would you increase your athletes protein intake, if they are losing muscle during a fat loss phase, even if the number gets up to the 2g/lb mark? (Currently taking 75g carbs pre AM session workout, training twice a day)

OR

  1. Increase carbs pre workout?

OR

  1. Add some carbs pre PM session workout even if shorter than 45mins? (You mentioned no carbs pre workout if 2nd session is shorter than 45mins)

Thanks in advance,
GJ

781

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Coach,

  1. Would you increase your athletes protein intake, if they are losing muscle during a fat loss phase, even if the number gets up to the 2g/lb mark? (Currently taking 75g carbs pre AM session workout, training twice a day)

OR

  1. Increase carbs pre workout?

OR

  1. Add some carbs pre PM session workout even if shorter than 45mins? (You mentioned no carbs pre workout if 2nd session is shorter than 45mins)

Thanks in advance,
GJ[/quote]

  1. Make sure that it is muscle loss… is there a decrease in strength?

  2. If protein intake is already at roughly 1.75g per pound or more I really have trouble believing that lack of protein is the cause for the muscle loss. It is much more likely an imbalance between anabolic and catabolic hormones.

  3. I would have to see the individual’s diet over the past month or so to make a definite recommendation. But I’m likely to use one of the following strategies:

a) increase pre-workout carbs prior to the first workout and include a small amount (30-40g) prior to the second one.

b) stop all energy systems work (including lactate workouts) and focus more on heavy lifting and hypertrophy, but keep a low volume of work.

c) stop the diet for one week, go back to eating in 40-40-20 proportions (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat) for 7 days before starting the diet again.

I would likely use a combination of A and B at first. And if that fails, move on to C.