[quote]Professor X wrote:
Uh, what? Your chest would have to now get stronger to compensate.
[/quote]
No, they would not be given the opportunity to receive sufficient stress in order to stimulate an adaptive response due to the servely limited strength levels of the now fatigued triceps and delts.
S
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Pre-fatiguing is for your large muscles in compound movements so they are on a level playing field with all the smaller muscles involved in that compound. [/quote]
Wow…it took the whole thread to realize we are NOT talking about the same concept?
[/quote]
To be fair, you started this S storm when the OP wrote this:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Ok. So I want to start pre-fatiguing my pecs on chest day.
Thanks![/quote]
And you responded with this:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would I want to “pre-fatigue” my chest on CHEST DAY???[/quote]
5 star thread. Would read again.
[quote]Professor X wrote:]
[quote]
… Yet the decreased amount of weight wouldn’t place MORE stress on your chest because in both scenarios your chest is working at max capacity.[/quote]
Uh, what? Your chest would have to now get stronger to compensate.
On what world do muscles not get stronger if you train them to be?
Who would get the most chest benefit OVER TIME?[/quote]
Your chest would have to get stronger either way though.
In order to jump up to a fresh 405x8 your chest would need to be stronger over time.
In order to jump up to a pre-fatigued 315x8 your chest would need to get stronger over time.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Uh, what? Your chest would have to now get stronger to compensate.
[/quote]
No, they would not be given the opportunity to receive sufficient stress in order to stimulate an adaptive response due to the servely limited strength levels of the now fatigued triceps and delts.
S[/quote]
Why would my triceps and delts be THAT limited from a few sets of triceps extensions?
We are NOT speaking of some all out strength work on triceps first.
I also explained this already.
I would also NOT be training BOTH tris and delts that way because the goal is to focus on the muscle taking over the movement when the chest should be the prime mover.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Pre-fatiguing is for your large muscles in compound movements so they are on a level playing field with all the smaller muscles involved in that compound. [/quote]
Wow…it took the whole thread to realize we are NOT talking about the same concept?
[/quote]
To be fair, you started this S storm when the OP wrote this:
[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Ok. So I want to start pre-fatiguing my pecs on chest day.
Thanks![/quote]
And you responded with this:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would I want to “pre-fatigue” my chest on CHEST DAY???[/quote][/quote]
But…Matty wrote the same thing.
I am still asking because in terms of what I am writing, it would make the least sense if the goal is to teach the mind muscle connection.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:]
[quote]
… Yet the decreased amount of weight wouldn’t place MORE stress on your chest because in both scenarios your chest is working at max capacity.[/quote]
Uh, what? Your chest would have to now get stronger to compensate.
On what world do muscles not get stronger if you train them to be?
Who would get the most chest benefit OVER TIME?[/quote]
Your chest would have to get stronger either way though.
In order to jump up to a fresh 405x8 your chest would need to be stronger over time.
In order to jump up to a pre-fatigued 315x8 your chest would need to get stronger over time.[/quote]
Uh…but since the whole goal here is to focus on guys who claim their chest is NOT growing like it should from chest work, the guy who now feels his chest more because of increased MMC will see the most growth over time.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:]
So you say.
There is no evidence to prove this theory is correct.
There have been several examples laid out of extremely successful bodybuilders using/endorsing pre fatiguing with iso work before
Compounds but I have not seen one thing posted yet about all the top pro’s who pre fatigue their accessory muscles before benching.
[quote]gregron wrote:
So you say.
There is no evidence to prove this theory is correct.[/quote]
WTF???
Most of bodybuilding progressed without studies. You serious with this shit? Have you fucking tried it?
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:]
So you say.
There is no evidence to prove this theory is correct.
There have been several examples laid out of extremely successful bodybuilders using/endorsing pre fatiguing with iso work before
Compounds but I have not seen one thing posted yet about all the top pro’s who pre fatigue their accessory muscles before benching.[/quote]
I mean, isn’t that the whole premise behind a lot of Mountain Dog training style?
[quote]gregron wrote:
Compounds but I have not seen one thing posted yet about all the top pro’s who pre fatigue their accessory muscles before benching.[/quote]
Also, most pro bodybuilders would naturally have a stronger MMC. That is what helped them become PRO BODYBUILDERS.
Why wold they need to?
I only do this because of pain.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:]
So you say.
There is no evidence to prove this theory is correct.
There have been several examples laid out of extremely successful bodybuilders using/endorsing pre fatiguing with iso work before
Compounds but I have not seen one thing posted yet about all the top pro’s who pre fatigue their accessory muscles before benching.[/quote]
I mean, isn’t that the whole premise behind a lot of Mountain Dog training style?
[/quote]
Oh no…you mean some science backs this up??
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Compounds but I have not seen one thing posted yet about all the top pro’s who pre fatigue their accessory muscles before benching.[/quote]
Also, most pro bodybuilders would naturally have a stronger MMC. That is what helped them become PRO BODYBUILDERS.
Why wold they need to?
I only do this because of pain.[/quote]
You said that it would lead to greater muscle growth. If that was the case why wouldn’t everyone do it?
Yeah the top pro’s obviously know what they’re doing but according to your theory this would lead to even greater muscle growth.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I mean, isn’t that the whole premise behind a lot of Mountain Dog training style?
[/quote]
What is the premise behind MD Training? Pre fatiguing your shoulders and tris before benching?
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
is it wise to prefatigue my fingers before posting, or should I get drunk and stoned then post?
I want to make sure I’m using my brain before firing off 20 stupid posts[/quote]
[quote]gregron wrote:
You said that it would lead to greater muscle growth…[/quote]
Wait…are you saying a better MMC will NOT lead to greater muscle growth?
WTF?
Why would someone gifted in that area be worried with this?
You are making a very weak argument…and there are still too many here who do get it.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I mean, isn’t that the whole premise behind a lot of Mountain Dog training style?
[/quote]
What is the premise behind MD Training? Pre fatiguing your shoulders and tris before benching?[/quote]
? Who told anyone here to do this with more than one muscle group in a session? If your trs and shoulders are both taking over a bench press, check your damn form first.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I would think since you are pre-fatiguing your tri’s your chest is taking on more of the load, thus making it stronger as your tris are less involved[/quote]
If your chest and tri’s are dominant throughout bench that would mean on a max effort set that your chest shoulders and tri’s are already working at max capacity to get the weight up right? (hence, max effort set)
By pre fatiguing your shoulders and tri’s you would HAVE to bench less weight (obviously) and would be lowering the weight to a number that your chest could handle as the primary mover… Yet the decreased amount of weight wouldn’t place MORE stress on your chest because in both scenarios your chest is working at max capacity.
In scenario A. You’re fresh and benching 315x8 but when you pre fatigue your shoulders you’re only benching 245x6 (arbitrary numbers, I know) so what logic says that your chest is getting more stimulation from putting up 245x6 as the primary muscle vs 315x8 as a “secondary” muscle?
Don’t you think Matty?[/quote]
Excellent points Greg…and I will defer to you guys ultimately. However I still believe X and my approach deserve its merit, as since your tris and shoulders are weakened most of the stress will go onto your pecs. I can liken it to a Hammer Strength machine, I would think you are taking stabilizing muscles out of the picture to a degree so the chest gets better stimulation, in the same sense this is how I think of fatiguing your tris and shoulders so your chest gets the brunt of the action, as it really doesnt know how much weight its lifting.
Just more than one way to skin a cat.
I think we should grab a couple of guys from the beginners section and put them through a 12 week program employing the two different styles lol
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I mean, isn’t that the whole premise behind a lot of Mountain Dog training style?
[/quote]
What is the premise behind MD Training? Pre fatiguing your shoulders and tris before benching?[/quote]
No…he generally recommends putting the compound movement for any given bodypart at the end of the workout rather than leading off with it. AKA…1980’s volume training!