So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off… how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI’s / PCT methods do you use?
[quote]CxTucker wrote:
So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off… how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI’s / PCT methods do you use?[/quote]
I’d be interested to hear this as well. The idea of coming off after ten months on is a little scary
[quote]CxTucker wrote:
So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off… how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI’s / PCT methods do you use?[/quote]
My time off is always planned around the competition season. There’s no precise moment between the off season and competition season, the drugs and diet are gradually changed over several weeks to be geared towards competition prep. The competition season ends as soon as I’m finished with my show and at this time I slowly taper everything down( @ this time I’m only on short esters, obviously)
After tapering down I will do 1 of 2 things: (keeping in mind my cycles are relatively aggressive)
- HCG 3000-5000iu every 3-5 days (for 10-12 shots)
Clomid 50mg (2x/day) 2-4 weeks
50mg everyday for 2-4 weeks
Nolvadex 20mg/day
IV Detox @ Naturopath
Natural Test Booster (Biotest AlphaMale is a good choice) - Stay on a low dose of Test (250-500mg/week)
HCG (250-500iu every 3rd day)
IV Detox
I stay on GH year round because it helps with recovery, keeps bodyfat low, maintains size and gives me an overall feeling of well being. In my off times I will lower the dose.
Usually the first couple months are easy, there is no drop (very minimal) in strength or size. By the last month I start to feel a drop in energy, strength, mood and so on but by this time I’m almost ready to go back on so it’s manageable.
During my off time I incorporate a lot of recovery exercises and treatments such as massage, physio, hydrotherapy, sauna, short swims, yoga(once and a while). At the end of this time my blood tests always come back in range.
*My body reacts and recovers well from aas use, but this isn’t the case for others so it might not work for everyone… Very individual!
How far out of range would you let things get while on a significamt blast, such as bp, cholesterol, liver values, hematocrit, until you called it quits, and what if any otc supplements do you take to help control these? Hawthorr berry, fish oil, milk thistle, coq10? Etc.
You continue to mention GH although no one specifically asked about it.
I believe its prohibitive cost is what separates the pros from the joes; I believe the cheapest I ever saw it was around 235USD for 100iu, something that would last a mere days at the doses I read about.
How many IU do you use during prep and off season and what do you think would be the minimum amount to see favorable bodybuilding effects?
I have read that the “hollywood” dose as I call it that is good for things like skin, eyes, etc that many actors go for is like 2-3 iu a day, would this have a noticeable effect on body composition as well?
Also have you noticed any of the typical side effects of hgh use, such as enlarged extremeties?
PS: Any thoughts on IGF-1? I hear about it but never specifically read up on it.
I’ve got a question: Why should anyone believe that you’ve competed in the Olympia?
I asked this and about 3 other questions like this ^^^^ and the mods deleted it.
For real reed? Seems like this is just amod account trying to push their products on the dark side users now, but I could be wrong
I asked the same thing and the mods have contacted me, assuring he is who he says he is.
It’s been an interesting thread so far so I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt
lol. I didn’t even see the push for Biotest products until I went back through. Come on now.
I’m going to assume you are on a steroid forum because you want to learn, how about we stop playing “guess who?” And leave time for people who have real life concerns and want my advice. I didn’t say you had to participate.
Pushing Biotest products? Did I miss something? I was asked what I use, and besides the steroids I would think nutrition and supplement advice to correlate would be beneficial. And we are on T-Nation, unless I’m mistaken?
You don’t have to guess or believe I am who I say I am… But last time I checked everyone is taking random advice on here which could be coming from a 12 year old girl for all they know. How about we just keep this thread for people who want to learn… Don’t think everything is a conspiracy! Hell, I just got here yesterday!!
I am not calling you a liar or saying you are who you are but, you do have to realize that you could be a 12 year old girl and we would know no better hence why we are cautious. How ever your advice has been sound and about what I would expect. Very interesting especially on the GH I don’t know how any one could handle 30iu of it lol I was using 3iu monday-friday and my hands were already hurting from that dose but, just to bite and throw it out there… I know your a BBing competitor which I have little interest in but, what would you recommend to the strength athletes out here who don’t care as much about a single digit body fat but wanna just push stupid weights.
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
What is your cycle history? how lean you are right now? Yes therre is a lot of logic in what your coach gave you but it’s really depends on your cycle history in order to know if this will work for you or not.[/quote]
First Cycle.
[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
How far out of range would you let things get while on a significamt blast, such as bp, cholesterol, liver values, hematocrit, until you called it quits, and what if any otc supplements do you take to help control these? Hawthorr berry, fish oil, milk thistle, coq10? Etc.[/quote]
I have a doctor who monitors my numbers regularly. Liver could be up to about three times the normal value, people I know have been up to 4 times the normal value without serious issues. Blood pressure and cholesterol are always in range no matter what (probably because my diet is always perfect and I always do light cardio and I’m very diligent with my supplementation) people don’t give supplementation enough credit, because if you are doing it right then it can combat a lot of the side effects of juice.
What I use is:
Coq10 90mg 3x/day
Vitamin c 3000-5000 mg/ day
Liver support (milk thistle, caper bush, chicory,black nightshade + more)
Kidney support (didymocarpus, winter begonia, prickly chaff flower, Indian madder)
Flameout (dha 2200mg, EPA 880mg + cla)
MAG-10 I have no anecdotal evidence to prove this, but I feel like helps my immune system as I’ve seen big improvement in myself and my clients (2 servings 2x/day)
Superfood and multi minerals in place of multivitamins (helps me control cramping, I’m prone to it especially when I use insulin.
I use 5HTP regularly, keeps me in a good mood so I don’t drive my girl crazy! (Especially on tren)
(And no I’m not pushing Biotest products just simply telling you what I use, there’s a reason why I’m on T-Nation and not another site… I use a mix of supplements that I choose are quality because there’s a lot of shit out there and I’ve tried it all… Trust me)
What do you think of ‘Palumboism’ and how do you try to avoid it with all of the drugs that you take?
Also, is Marc Lobliner correct in his assertion that most top-level IFBB competitors don’t take nearly as much as people think they do?
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
You continue to mention GH although no one specifically asked about it.
I believe its prohibitive cost is what separates the pros from the joes; I believe the cheapest I ever saw it was around 235USD for 100iu, something that would last a mere days at the doses I read about.
How many IU do you use during prep and off season and what do you think would be the minimum amount to see favorable bodybuilding effects?
I have read that the “hollywood” dose as I call it that is good for things like skin, eyes, etc that many actors go for is like 2-3 iu a day, would this have a noticeable effect on body composition as well?
Also have you noticed any of the typical side effects of hgh use, such as enlarged extremeties?
PS: Any thoughts on IGF-1? I hear about it but never specifically read up on it.
[/quote]
I keep mentioning GH because of it’s positive effects, like I mentioned before it helps enhance recovery, repair nagging injuries, maintaining size during diet, promoting growth in off season(6-8iu minimum)
You’re a little off base with the statement about GH separating the pros from the joes… A few things to remember is that all of the top level pros are doing everything perfect with regards to drugs, supplementation, training and diet. This is where the dosages of GH will make the difference to a certain point before you take genetics and other factors into consideration… Gym rats and others who use GH thinking it’s going to give them miracles because they are missing parts of the foundation. Even the most serious gym rat usually has a regular job, slips up on random days and just simply doesn’t live the lifestyle 24/7. So it’s very hard to make a comparison. When everything is measured and planned out for the specific goal it makes a huge difference.
Also, keep in mind there is so much bunk out there, you could waste your money and take 30iu/day only to find out that it’s fake… A lot of people take it and never see the real benefit that GH would give you and then disregard it as a supplement.
If you are getting GH for $235 for 100iu then I can assure you that it’s not real… There is no way that you can be 100% sure unless a pharmacist hands it to you or you have a lab handy to do some testing.
As for how much I use… Off season- anywhere between 6-12 (depending on budget) any less than that will help with bodyfat but not so much with muscle growth. Competition prep- I stay around 8iu, and if I cut the calories I might bump it up to about 12-16iu.
If you only want to use it for health benefits and fat loss then 2-4 ius will work great for you.
As for extremities, my feet have grown in the last 2 years and I’m in my 30’s so it’s not puberty, lol. Also, my facial features are more prominent… I think it does something for sure. I am only using a moderate dose so I could only imagine what happens to the guys who are taking over 20iu.
I am very ambivalent about the IGF and other peptides because I have tried it numerous times from underground peptide sites and seen very little if any improvements. The science is definitely there but you’d have to get your hands on the right stuff. The pharmaceutical price for real IGF is almost double the price if not more than real GH. The word in the bbing community is that BiG Ramy got so big so fast because he has unlimited access to IGF in his home country. Since the science is backing the benefits of the IGF-1 I do believe there is some truth in it… It’s just a question of getting good product, same goes for HGH.
[quote]DoctorJekyll wrote:
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
What is your cycle history? how lean you are right now? Yes therre is a lot of logic in what your coach gave you but it’s really depends on your cycle history in order to know if this will work for you or not.[/quote]
First Cycle.[/quote]
If that’s the case, go with the lowest dosages possible…you will see great gains.
I would do tren-a, mast-p and test-p at 300mg a week (200 might be a bit on the low side). I would change the compounds over a longer period of time and start at lower dosages.
Only when you stop gaining (get opinions from others) then it’s time to start uping the dosage very slowly. Your coach seems like he knows his shit if this is what he gave you, so listen to him. The longer you can keep the dosages low and keep improving you will be saving weapons for later because you have no where to go but up.
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
If you are getting GH for $235 for 100iu then I can assure you that it’s not real…
[/quote]
Really? That’s strange, considering that’s around the price for blue tops and guys are showing elevated IGF-1 levels. Maybe under dosed, but not real? lol ok.
[quote]MalignantTyrant wrote:
What do you think of ‘Palumboism’ and how do you try to avoid it with all of the drugs that you take?
Also, is Marc Lobliner correct in his assertion that most top-level IFBB competitors don’t take nearly as much as people think they do? [/quote]
I think slowly increasing the dosages can prevent you from having these sides and taking time off each year. I think some of the pros who have these characteristics aren’t training hard enough to take advantage of the drugs they’re taking. I believe there’s a direct connection between how hard you train and how your body utilizes the drugs. I don’t have any evidence to support this but I’m just telling you what I see… I also see that as the guys age and start to rely more on drugs they will take on this look.
I believe genetic freaks can get away with a lot less, others need more to keep up. The numbers boston Lloyd talks about are ridiculous, I think this kid is one of the worst things that happened to this industry… This is also one of the reasons I started posting here. There’s no one I know that takes these kind of numbers, the most I’ve heard is 3-4g/week of injectables and the lowest being 1.5-2.5g/week (of all injectables) NOT 12g a week.
One of the reasons Dave looks like this could be due to the fact that he’s a huge advocate of synthol use… Most of the guys who are touching this crap look like creatures (ex.dave palumbo, rich piana)
[quote]Reed wrote:
I am not calling you a liar or saying you are who you are but, you do have to realize that you could be a 12 year old girl and we would know no better hence why we are cautious. How ever your advice has been sound and about what I would expect. Very interesting especially on the GH I don’t know how any one could handle 30iu of it lol I was using 3iu monday-friday and my hands were already hurting from that dose but, just to bite and throw it out there… I know your a BBing competitor which I have little interest in but, what would you recommend to the strength athletes out here who don’t care as much about a single digit body fat but wanna just push stupid weights. [/quote]
30iu is just a matter of building it up slowly, I would highly doubt that there’s many guys who actually reach these numbers, 12-18iu’s is more likely.
For strength athletes, I would recommend:
Orals: tren,cheque drops(mibolerone),halo,dbol, Anadrol
If you need to stay at a certain weight (for your sport) and don’t want any water retention and want to increase strength then choose from the tren, mibolerone or halo (mibolerone is very potent so only use for 2 weeks at a time) (tren and halo can be used up to 6 weeks)
With the dbol and Anadrol keep in mind you will gain water and weight, so if you are trying to make a weight class these will be problematic but they will help with strength gains. I’m not a huge fan of Anadrol because it’s a huge stress on the liver and if I’m going to stress my liver if rather choose halo.
Dosages are depending on you as a specific athlete.(experience, mental state,liver health, history with drugs, tolerance)
Injectables: tren, test, deca (mostly for joint lubrication rather than strength)
I would also use GH 4-6iu to help with recovery. If you aren’t interested in gaining new muscle and that’s not your goal then there’s no point in using more.
Another good idea for strength is to inject test suspension before a workout, it will give you a good push.