PWO on a Cut... Confused

Nutrition
1

Hey all…

6’2"
32 yrs old
204
came down from 248 about 3 years ago…and recently got more serious the last 1.5 years
less than 10% BF

So here’s my question:

I’m trying to get ripped up for the summer (and don’t intend to lose it once I get it…for the next several years) but am having trouble losing these last few. It seems that I read one thing here and another article there and they all seem to go against one another.

My buddy sits at 6’0" at 178 and 4%BF and is shredded (he’s been at it for 15 years) but lives on hot pockets and miller lites…so his advice is garbage for me…

I have been on a regulated…whole food diet consisting of:
3 meals (each of which have a lean protein and long chain carb except for dinner which is carb free)
2 snacks (1 portion of almonds and a low carb whey isolate shake)
PreWO is a serving of prunes/ banana/ and 30 grams whey
PWO is a 500 calorie meal with lean meat and a quicker carb like potato

I’ve followed this pretty regularly for the last 1.5 years…my only downfall is big beers (200 calorie IPA’s) on the weekend in excess.

I’ve dropped the beers entirely and have added interval training (pwo)along with empty stomach swimming (twice a week in the morning)…

As far as calories…I’m between 2600-3300 depending on the workout…so I haven’t dropped of the cals much but instead have created the deficit with extra work…

I hope I’ve given enough info…

So on a cut…do I hit a PWO that spikes insulin like when I do my bulk or do I eo i stay sway from that…should my breakfast have a spike (clean food only) during the cut…or should I keep insulin release low all day?

The fruits of my labor are showing through…but despite 4 weeks on this “nojoke” cut…I still have that extra fat on the waist.

training is as follows:
M-chest/bi 45 minutes supersetted (pwo CARDIO 20 MINUTES IN THR ZONE)
T-legs/tri 60 minutes supersetted (pwo swimming 20 minutes in THR zone)
W-am run 20 minutes
R-Back 45 minutes
F-full body
S-am cardio
Su-HIIT 20 minutes (12 mph for 45 and 45 second walk)

Exercises revolve around:
Squat
Deads
Chins
Dips
Flat Bench
Bent Rows

secondaries are:
incline DB
skull crushers
hammer dbs
leg press
leg extension
seated row

I work for 25 total reps/ exercise.

week one is geared towards max weight for 2 sets of 12
week two is geared towards max weight for 3 sets of 8
week three is geared towards max weight for 4 sets of 6
Week four is a strategic decondition
then circuit starts over with increase loads for each week

I know this is a ton…let me know if you can help at all. Thanks

2

Heres the thing. If you truely are less than 10% BF, then you are ripped (if you have some muscle), and probably wouldnt have a “last few extra pounds” to be losing. If you are less 10% and still have a few lbs to lose, than why do you need advice (if you get sub 10%, you know what you are doing). If you are 10% and not ripped, then you need some muscle (i.e., you have none!).

I highly doubt your buddy has been sitting at 4% for 15 years. Let me rephrase that, that is just straight bullshit.

You will not get any help until you realize that your BF% estimation is most likely way off and people that can help are reading this thinking you are just guy who has no idea what he is talking about.

You could always post a pic if you are actually < 10%. I cant give diet advice, I am not that low yet.

3

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Well…I came here for advice. I don’t claim to know everything that’s why I am asking. I am less than 10% (I don’t make numbers up)…I do know what I am doing (to a point) but I’m stuck and looking for help here because I can’t get past 9-10%. Since the pic I have gained 16lbs of lean mass and maintained the bf%. When I get a way to post new pics I will gladly post the newest ones here (205-208) at 9-10% BF here (the pic you see is 187lbs roughly).

As for my buddy…yes he is 4%…yes he has been there for 15 years…although I’m glad that you know that isn’t true without knowing him or his habits.(how you could make a blanket statement like that dumbfounds me).

I don’t wanna sound like a dick…but you’re telling me that everything in my post is bullshit. The pics are there to show you (him and me)…if I knew what to do to get past where I’m at…I wouldn’t be here…

Anyone have advice to give?

Thanks

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The other post is my buddy at 4% and this is me at 187 and 9-10%.

5

Im not attacking you. I am telling you that everyone else would think you are full of shit unless you posted pics, and they would not be willing to help you.

BTW - you dont look sub 10%, at all.

BTW - your buddy isnt 4% in that pic.

Some advice - if you look similar now to what you do in the 187 lb pic, then you need to add some serious muscle, should be doing the exact opposite of cutting.

6

I don’t know dude…we got tested by a trainer at our gym (7 or 8 ) site caliper or something like that. These are the numbers we were told…my most recent was 10% at 204.

I’m not here to argue #'s. I’m curious what works pwo for people who have cut to 6 pack percentages.

I don’t take any supps besides the whey…heard a lot of bad things about them…anybody have insight into that too?

7

Yeah, although some of what smithers said is true, it was said way to harshly and that is just not cool man.

Your buddy although not 4%, is def. ripped and looks around 8%ish, but yah. Your posing could use some work, and you look lean, but maybe not quite 10% yet. Try not to post anymore pics with your fingers all over your waist like that again… just doesn’t look right.

But anyways, you want to spike insulin peri and/or post workout, on a cut, probably just peri-workout (Chad Waterbury and CT have mentioned that peri-workout carbs are generally the last to go when dieting and even right before shows may still not get left out).

That lean meat and potato should probably be substituted with some Surge Recovery or other carb/protein shake during your workout, and your next meal after your workout doesn’t need to be that large then.

As far as your calories go, some people don’t count em, some do, I am glad your counting them, and if you really want to lose a little more weight, then try a “high day, low day” approach where you have 3/4 low days followed by a high day, most people do this with carb cycling, but you would basically try and eat 2000-2500 for 3 days, then have a 3000-3500 calorie day, and if fat loss needs to happen quicker space out that high day a little more.

8

You should not be cutting. Right now it looks like you have very little mass, if any. Muscle burns calories, so you should start packing it on.

If anything, it sounds like you are under eating, and your body is probably compensating by storing fat to make up for it. Also, your diet has very little fat. Fat is one of the best tools for fat loss, substituting it in and taking out carbs.

In short I’d say you need to start lifting, seriously. Putting on muscle will help you achieve your desired physique, and will also help you with your goals. I know you wrote down your lifts, but looking solely at your picture, it doesn’t look like you’ve even been to the gym, and I am not saying that to be rude.

If I were you, I would read as many of the articles as possible, find the workout plan that suits you, dive head first into it, and then start eating like a man.

9

[quote]skohcl wrote:
Yeah, although some of what smithers said is true, it was said way to harshly and that is just not cool man.

[/quote]

Holy Fuck. Amazing.

This site is called “Testosterone Muscle; The Intelligent and Relentless Pursuit of Muscle”, and people are so sensitive.

If he was “Intelligently and Relentlessly” pursuing muscle, he would have used the fucking search button, this has been covered a million times.

And BTW, I was being helpful, even though it was “too harsh” and “not cool”. Fuck that. I just reviewed my post, and nothing harsh at all, other than calling bullshit at someone sitting at 4% for 15 years, so boo hoo.

Back on topic:

OP, you wanna be ripped? Put on some muscle. I think you are the rare case of people who cant see their abs because they are underdeveloped. Most cant see their abs due to fat, but in your pic, you just need some muscle. Start eating more (keep it healthy) and squatting, deadlifting, benching, dips, rows, pull ups, shoulder press and you will see the change you want. You are at the BF to see abs, you just havent developed them enough.

If most people like you would follow the basic lifts above, lift frequently, and eat enough, they would grow. Unfortunately, most people are so caught up in the details they completely overlook the basics.

10

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
OP, you wanna be ripped? Put on some muscle. I think you are the rare case of people who cant see their abs because they are underdeveloped. Most cant see their abs due to fat, but in your pic, you just need some muscle. Start eating more (keep it healthy) and squatting, deadlifting, benching, dips, rows, pull ups, shoulder press and you will see the change you want. You are at the BF to see abs, you just havent developed them enough.

If most people like you would follow the basic lifts above, lift frequently, and eat enough, they would grow. Unfortunately, most people are so caught up in the details they completely overlook the basics.[/quote]

This. Your abs look underdeveloped, and I think is why, even near, or sub 10% you are not going to be happy with your physique.

11

It looks more like your buddy is around 10%. That being said, you’re clearly lean and the lighting in your picture is quite bad, whereas your friend used better lighting and is tan as hell. I have to agree with westcoast here. Getting much leaner than you are right now is going to be a serious struggle because you’re just not carrying enough muscle.

Great job on the progress to date, but honestly I think you should focus on the other direction right now. Put on some size and then think about coming back down again. It will be much easier if you’re carrying more muscle and if you were to be “shredded” right now, I suspect you wouldn’t look like you imagine. If you put on just 10 pounds of muscle carrying as much fat as you are in the above pic, you would probably look much better.

I also realize that this probably isn’t what you expected or wanted to hear but this is my opinion. Sorry.

12

If your buddy is indeed 178 lbs at 6’ tall, I think he’s just one of those naturally lean people, especially judging by his veins. I know my veins didn’t start bulging all over until I had added a pretty sizable amount of muscle (and your buddy doesn’t really seem to be sporting much in that dept). With that out of the way… -lol Don’t compare yourself to other people, it never really does much in the way of solving problems. Instead, let’s look at what you can do, or are doing correctly.

-Weight training - obviously adding muscle will raise your BMR, and your goal should be to TRY to add muscle with your training.

-Cardio - Shouldn’t be used as the primary method to create a cal deficit in my opinion. I always will favor dietary manip before adding in extra sessions that will cause your body to take it’s resources away from building/maintaining muscle (your primary goal).

-Nurtition- Peri/Post workout nutrition is vital to maintaining muscle. Even as my current prep comes towards the end, I STILL have my carbs right before training. It is the LAST place you want to take from, because it has such a profound effect on your weight sessions (which will prevent your body from burning through your muscle!).

-Supplementation - I’m a big believer in BCAA’s (or Casein Hydrolysate) as means of ‘muscle insurance’, even on low cal/carb days.

S

13

[quote]JDurkin wrote:
Since the pic I have gained 16lbs of lean mass and maintained the bf%. When I get a way to post new pics I will gladly post the newest ones here (205-208) at 9-10% BF here (the pic you see is 187lbs roughly).[/quote]

If this is the case, then you should be looking pretty good by now. Posting a new pic will probably help others give advice.

This wasnt a blanket statement. Most people will never achieve 4% BF, and those that do, do not stay there long due to extreme discomfort, and not to mention the serious health risks. Staying at 4% for 15 years would be straight hell, for anyone.

Now, maybe after reading everyones posts, you see why I said what I said in my first post. Maybe it wasnt so dickish, huh? You posted pics, realized you were headed in the completely wrong direction, and now have some solid advice you can implement and you will be on your way to the physique you want.

14

Another thing to consider is your buddy is going to look better because he never had to “come down from 248” so his skin probably had to stretch OUT from new mass gains rather than yours which will be more elastic and stretched.

I suffer from the same problem. I cut down to ~10% last year and could barely see abs and had (for the first time in my life) a “skinny-fat” realization moment. I spent the last 7 months of '09 adding mass, which was frightening as hell as a former fatty, and I’ve cut down to roughly the same as last year but look MUCH better and my muscle bellies are MUCH fuller.

I agree with the other posters here, you’re pretty damn lean now and the best way to “get ripped” would be to add some mass. You can do it smartly and not put on a shit load of fat with a modest deficit. Even if it’s simply eating excess calories on your lifting days.

Your guido buddy also uses a damn tanning bed which makes anyone look leaner

15

I’ll chime in with the others, you seem pretty lean in the pic, some more ab work might help.

You’re doing basically the right thing regarding workout nutrition. I mean, you can look at an uber-detailed regime like the Anaconda protocol or CT’s stuff in his forum, but you’re you’ve got nutrition coming in pre and post, and that’s the biggest part.

No true day off in your schedule at all?