[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Hey P, good luck on your comp man. Let us know how you do! Safe drive and Godspeed. [/quote]
Thanks man, much appreciated. I’ll be sure to post video when I get it.
[quote]AbsuM- wrote:
t3hpwnisher whats your take on 5 set 5 rep routines? are you a fan? whats your favorite set rep range for building sheer strength and some size along the way[/quote]
I actually posted my thoughts on rep ranges in this topic
But to recap it
"Honestly, I feel the notion of rep ranges has been a far greater detriment to training than benefit. Many seem to ignore that the intent of providing a rep range/effect explanation was more to explain about the impact of time under tension, which is really an entirely different animal for most.
3 reps is supposed to be in the power range of training. Well lets say I do 3 fast reps with 60% 1rm? Then yeah, I’m developing power. What about 90% of 1rm? Now it’s strength. What about if I did 10 sets of 3 with 75% and 1 minute of rests between sets? Now I’m developing hypertrophy. What about a weight circuit, where I do 3 reps of dips, 3 reps of chins, and 3 reps of kettlebell swings for 15 minutes? Now it’s endurance/conditioning.
Lets go back to that 3 reps with 90% set. Say I’m doing squats. On one set, I lockout each rep at the top and pause for a second before starting the next rep. On the second set, I don’t lockout at the top and immediately begin the next rep before coming completely to the top of the last one. Did both sets accomplish the same degree of strength/size development? They were both 90% of 1rm for 3 reps.
There are far more variables at play than rep range, and honestly, I think moving away from thinking in “rep ranges” and more in terms of how everything builds to the overall goal is a boon. I go by feel for the most part these days, and measure success as my outcome."
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
There are far more variables at play than rep range, and honestly, I think moving away from thinking in “rep ranges” and more in terms of how everything builds to the overall goal is a boon. I go by feel for the most part these days, and measure success as my outcome."[/quote]
By feel, do you mean you just do as much rep as you feel like for a given set?
Or do you know have an idea of how many reps you can do with that weight, and don’t mind if you do +/-1 to 2 reps, and just continue going on from there?
t3hpwnisher whats your take on 5 set 5 rep routines? are you a fan? whats your favorite set rep range for building sheer strength and some size along the way
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
There are far more variables at play than rep range, and honestly, I think moving away from thinking in “rep ranges” and more in terms of how everything builds to the overall goal is a boon. I go by feel for the most part these days, and measure success as my outcome."[/quote]
By feel, do you mean you just do as much rep as you feel like for a given set?
Or do you know have an idea of how many reps you can do with that weight, and don’t mind if you do +/-1 to 2 reps, and just continue going on from there?[/quote]
Honestly, I feel like time is a far more valuable concern than rep number. Like, I’ll hit a set of chins for my lats, and before my first rest pause I’ll do 80 “reps”, but if I were to post the video on youtube, you would have villagers storming my garage with pitchforks and torches because I’m not coming anywhere NEAR full ROM. I might be moving 3-4" total, but in doing so, for those “reps”, my lats are getting an insane pump and I’m not wasting any energy on my arms.
From the other perspective, if I were to instead do 20 perfect form dead hang chin-ups, the rep range and form may be more acceptable, but it didn’t accomplish the goal I had set out to accomplish.
Going in a different direction with my heavy work, all I care about is getting a good strain in for as long as I can manage. It’s similar to what westside talks about with ME lifts, where I’m not really getting stronger, just learning how to strain under heavy loads. It can vary anywhere from 2-12 reps, with form deviation as needed, but as long as my body remains tight the whole time I’m happy. Blowing out blood vessels in my back and chest is a bonus.
When it comes to most assistance work, I’ll stick with 10s on compound lifts for the sake of convention and 12-30 on isolation work, but for squat variations I’ll also hit 20-30 reps at the end of the day or do something like a 20+20 superset with front squats/back squats. In those cases, it’s again not the number that matters, but the fact that I am either getting a pump to my muscles or training myself to endure more misery.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]kgildner wrote:
Great idea for a thread! I’ve always wanted to pick your about your programming for the deadlift. I know you’ve use a graduated ROM training method with your conventional-style pulls, but how does your loading and volume/intensity look?
Gonna grab my popcorn and wait for some great insight from this thread.[/quote]
I don’t use percentages or anything to determine loading. I generally start a cycle weight a weight I can hit for 12 reps in a single set of 7 high mat pulls (7 pavers per side). I train the mat pull each week, using 1 less paver each time, until I am pulling off the floor (I skip the “1 mat high” week and go straight from 2 mats to the floor, just because 1 mat high seems a little too close to floor height, and my goal here is to spend as little time pulling from the floor as I can). Usually, on this very first cycle, I can manage to get all 12 rep off the floor with maybe 1 rest pause necessary.
I increase the weight 15lbs and restart the cycle at 7 mats high again. Generally, I will be able to pull 12 reps from 7 high again, but may lose 1-2 reps when I get to the floor. I keep adding weight each time the cycle repeats, and use rest pausing more frequently (these days, I will rest twice in a set).
Once I have increased the weight to the point that I can only pull 2 reps off the floor in the initial set before needing to rest pause, I cut about 10% off from how much I was lifting for that set, and start the whole process over again. By that point, the 90% of my working weight is light enough that I can get at least 12 reps on a 7 high mat pull without resting.
This makes sense to me as I write it, but I understand it can be confusing from the outside perspective. Let me know if there is anything I can clarify.[/quote]
Great posts so far. Thanks for your contributions, T3hPwnisher. Also, your blog is great.
Do you ever find that certain heights are harder than others? It seems logical that the more mats you have, the shorter the ROM, and the easier the pull should be, but that isn’t always the case (at least in my experience). For example, I tried rack pulls for the first time the other day and pulling from right at the knee was awful, but an inch above that spot was a joke. I wonder if this ever presents itself in your ROM progression, especially with deadlift. If so, how do you overcome this? Do you avoid awkward heights or just continue with the progression and see a fairly linear response (i.e. 7 mats = 12 reps, 6 m = 12 r, 5 m = 11 r, etc. compared to 7 m = 12, 6 m = 10 r, 5 m = 12 r, etc.)?
I was thinking that maybe your ROM progression overcomes the fact that certain positions are harder than others (after plenty of cycles with such a progression), and simply makes each position stronger by itself and for the full ROM lift.
Thanks for your time. Good luck Saturday.
This is all golden, thank you so much for answering all of the questions. Good luck with your strongman competition this weekend, I am in the tail end of a prep for the Arnold. Would like to leave a question/thought as well…
-Do you believe that performing your deadlifts in a touch and go fashion in the higher rep range really helped build up your back strength and musculature (specifically the low back) and helped you maintain a neutral spine during your very heavy pulls?
I tend to round with weights over 90% and it is just frustrating when I have training partners who can pull their max or even fail an attempt and not have any rounding at all. The reason I am asking is because I have dealt with low back injuries in the past and it was due to excessive rounding, but this is something that I have minimized over the past 2 years to a point where I am comfortable with although I still feel like there is room for improvement.
I think that the TUT for your deadlifts touch and go style and for higher reps has helped build up this musculature with heavy weight rather than spending time doing something like reverse hypers which seems to be the go to around here for people that have low back strength issues and is something that I have had zero success with. I know everything is individual and I may end up finding something that works for me that is not the normal answer but I just would like to hear your thoughts on this even though you may not entirely agree with me.
Thanks again.
I would like to hear P talk about:
What were some of the more difficult hurdles or milestones in your training history, and what did you have to shift in your training or mind to overcome them?
Awesome, so far. I’ve always done a similar ROM style training with my squat, I have several boxes made up from 2 inches above parelle, to 2 inches below paelle, so I’ll break new ground with the high box, and over the coarse of several weeks work my way down to the low box, then a week to hit that weight on free squats. Now I came to this way of training because knee replacement, and free squats ruin my knee, but I’ve found shorter ROM squats ( high box squats ) really knee friendly.
I was just woundering if you came to this style of training, because you were working around an injury, or at the very least do you find this kind of training joint friendly. I’m tempted to try this style of training for some other lifts, knowing what I know about box squats, and thinking this could be a good way to save my shoulder’s and lower back. Thanks
What is your bench press and overhead training like? What else do you do for your chest/shoulders/triceps?
Not to answer for pwnisher, but his full workout program is listed at Mythical strength about two pages back. It shows how he sets up a cycle, and what asistance exercises he cycles trough, stes, and reps, and shit like that. Hopefully he’ll get more detailed here, but you can have a look at that csulli, in the mean time 
Later
It’s Dec 8, 2013, if your trying to find it, I just went there, and it’s pretty detailed program.
[quote]baugust wrote:
Great posts so far. Thanks for your contributions, T3hPwnisher. Also, your blog is great.
Do you ever find that certain heights are harder than others? It seems logical that the more mats you have, the shorter the ROM, and the easier the pull should be, but that isn’t always the case (at least in my experience). For example, I tried rack pulls for the first time the other day and pulling from right at the knee was awful, but an inch above that spot was a joke. I wonder if this ever presents itself in your ROM progression, especially with deadlift. If so, how do you overcome this? Do you avoid awkward heights or just continue with the progression and see a fairly linear response (i.e. 7 mats = 12 reps, 6 m = 12 r, 5 m = 11 r, etc. compared to 7 m = 12, 6 m = 10 r, 5 m = 12 r, etc.)?
I was thinking that maybe your ROM progression overcomes the fact that certain positions are harder than others (after plenty of cycles with such a progression), and simply makes each position stronger by itself and for the full ROM lift.
Thanks for your time. Good luck Saturday.[/quote]
It is rare that I am able to do a ROM progression cycle where I don’t lose reps as I progress. Usually, only the very first cycle manages that, whereas on future cycles I lose reps as I go. On my most recent cycle, I started off with 14 reps from the 7 mat height and ended up with 7 reps off the floor.
In terms of difficult spots in the program, the 4 mat height is my bane. I imagine the reason for this is two-fold, the first being that this puts the bar right in between my shin, and is an awkward height for me to set-up for a great pull from while at the same time being too high for me to rely on momentum to bast through any rough spots. The second reason I imagine this is my tough spot is because it’s the height I pull on for my 4th week in the cycle, and I am most likely burnt out and in need of a deload. For some cycles, I’ll treat the fourth week like a small deload and use no rest pausing, only getting a handful of reps and then manage to knock out way more for the remaining few weeks. On other cycles, I actually am strong enough to still hit my previous week’s numbers on the 4th week. It all depends.
For your rack pull experience in general, you have to keep in mind that the rack pull kind of sucks for this. With a mat or block pull, the plates are still the point of contact, such that, when you grab the bar and start the pull, the bar flexes upward. With a rack pull, the bar is the point of contact, so you get zero flex when you start the pull. Additionally, when the bar makes contact with the pins, it can be pretty jarring due to the metal on metal nature of the impact compared to plates hitting blocks or mats. Some folks actually find rack pulls more difficult than deadlifts because of these factors.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
For your rack pull experience in general, you have to keep in mind that the rack pull kind of sucks for this. With a mat or block pull, the plates are still the point of contact, such that, when you grab the bar and start the pull, the bar flexes upward. With a rack pull, the bar is the point of contact, so you get zero flex when you start the pull. Additionally, when the bar makes contact with the pins, it can be pretty jarring due to the metal on metal nature of the impact compared to plates hitting blocks or mats. Some folks actually find rack pulls more difficult than deadlifts because of these factors.
[/quote]
Nice, I was wondering your thoughts on rack pulls. You are a very observant lifter and a straightforward/concise writer so it is always good to have your insight. Kick ass on Saturday!
[quote]GetLethal wrote:
This is all golden, thank you so much for answering all of the questions. Good luck with your strongman competition this weekend, I am in the tail end of a prep for the Arnold. Would like to leave a question/thought as well…
-Do you believe that performing your deadlifts in a touch and go fashion in the higher rep range really helped build up your back strength and musculature (specifically the low back) and helped you maintain a neutral spine during your very heavy pulls?
I tend to round with weights over 90% and it is just frustrating when I have training partners who can pull their max or even fail an attempt and not have any rounding at all. The reason I am asking is because I have dealt with low back injuries in the past and it was due to excessive rounding, but this is something that I have minimized over the past 2 years to a point where I am comfortable with although I still feel like there is room for improvement.
I think that the TUT for your deadlifts touch and go style and for higher reps has helped build up this musculature with heavy weight rather than spending time doing something like reverse hypers which seems to be the go to around here for people that have low back strength issues and is something that I have had zero success with. I know everything is individual and I may end up finding something that works for me that is not the normal answer but I just would like to hear your thoughts on this even though you may not entirely agree with me.
Thanks again.[/quote]
I think touch and go deads were vital to allowing me to overcome a lower back injury for much of the reasons you listed here. Being able to maintain tension through out the entire lift was much better on my back compared to having to constantly load and unload my back with deadstop lifts. I feel like touch and go deads were more related to building up the muscles in my upper back rather than lower back though, mainly because I tend to use very little lower back when I pull. I demonstrated my technique in this video
but to summarize, when I pull, it’s pretty much an exercise in getting my core as tight as possible and then hip hinging for everything I am worth. It’s like performing an incredibly heavy kettlebell swing, and as a result, my lower back was at most just doing some stabilizing work while my hips really took on the load.
Now that I have been using a reverse hyper, my deadlifting technique is starting to change, and I’m actually using my lower back a lot more in the lift. It’s not a bad thing, as I’m still getting stronger, but I think it pointed out to me just how much I was saving my lower back with this technique and not necessarily making it stronger.
All that being said, I still owe a lot to touch and go deadlifts, and don’t think I will ever go back to dead stop pulls because of all the positives you and I have already mentioned. Even if it’s not building up the lower back directly, it is giving you all the tools you need to pull heavy.
As a slightly related aside, for another great deadlift builder that is low back friendly, look into safety squat bar squats. I went 3 years without deadlifting due to my lower back injury, but used the SSB the entire time, and when I came back to deadlifts, I hadn’t lost a pound off my previous best PR. It’s one of the most awesome tools/movements in training.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]GetLethal wrote:
This is all golden, thank you so much for answering all of the questions. Good luck with your strongman competition this weekend, I am in the tail end of a prep for the Arnold. Would like to leave a question/thought as well…
-Do you believe that performing your deadlifts in a touch and go fashion in the higher rep range really helped build up your back strength and musculature (specifically the low back) and helped you maintain a neutral spine during your very heavy pulls?
I tend to round with weights over 90% and it is just frustrating when I have training partners who can pull their max or even fail an attempt and not have any rounding at all. The reason I am asking is because I have dealt with low back injuries in the past and it was due to excessive rounding, but this is something that I have minimized over the past 2 years to a point where I am comfortable with although I still feel like there is room for improvement.
I think that the TUT for your deadlifts touch and go style and for higher reps has helped build up this musculature with heavy weight rather than spending time doing something like reverse hypers which seems to be the go to around here for people that have low back strength issues and is something that I have had zero success with. I know everything is individual and I may end up finding something that works for me that is not the normal answer but I just would like to hear your thoughts on this even though you may not entirely agree with me.
Thanks again.[/quote]
I think touch and go deads were vital to allowing me to overcome a lower back injury for much of the reasons you listed here. Being able to maintain tension through out the entire lift was much better on my back compared to having to constantly load and unload my back with deadstop lifts. I feel like touch and go deads were more related to building up the muscles in my upper back rather than lower back though, mainly because I tend to use very little lower back when I pull. I demonstrated my technique in this video
but to summarize, when I pull, it’s pretty much an exercise in getting my core as tight as possible and then hip hinging for everything I am worth. It’s like performing an incredibly heavy kettlebell swing, and as a result, my lower back was at most just doing some stabilizing work while my hips really took on the load.
Now that I have been using a reverse hyper, my deadlifting technique is starting to change, and I’m actually using my lower back a lot more in the lift. It’s not a bad thing, as I’m still getting stronger, but I think it pointed out to me just how much I was saving my lower back with this technique and not necessarily making it stronger.
All that being said, I still owe a lot to touch and go deadlifts, and don’t think I will ever go back to dead stop pulls because of all the positives you and I have already mentioned. Even if it’s not building up the lower back directly, it is giving you all the tools you need to pull heavy.
As a slightly related aside, for another great deadlift builder that is low back friendly, look into safety squat bar squats. I went 3 years without deadlifting due to my lower back injury, but used the SSB the entire time, and when I came back to deadlifts, I hadn’t lost a pound off my previous best PR. It’s one of the most awesome tools/movements in training.
[/quote]
Thank you so much for the in depth answer/thought. I have recently started to do paused squats with the safety bar after having seen people claim of its benefits and carry over to their pull. I plan on implementing a lot of this great advice in the near future.
[quote]AbsuM- wrote:
t3hpwnisher whats your take on 5 set 5 rep routines? are you a fan? whats your favorite set rep range for building sheer strength and some size along the way[/quote]
But, why male models?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
As a slightly related aside, for another great deadlift builder that is low back friendly, look into safety squat bar squats. I went 3 years without deadlifting due to my lower back injury, but used the SSB the entire time, and when I came back to deadlifts, I hadn’t lost a pound off my previous best PR. It’s one of the most awesome tools/movements in training.
[/quote]
Agreed; hands down the best purchase I’ve made after my power rack and initial bar with weights.
what is your take on the best way to cut for an overweight person. fast or slow?
what is your take on the best way to cut for an overweight person. fast or slow?
This is a workout schedual for Pwnisher. I stole this from his blog, hope he dosen’t mind, but it might help clear some stuff up, and also bring questions regarding his workout. There’s also more write up to go with this, regarding asistabce work and conditioning, but I could only bring so much here. If you want more you should be reading his blog. ‘‘Mythical strength’’ I’ve done my best to condense this, but better to read in full
Pwniher’s words, from here down ;
The training is divided into 4 different days: overhead press, squat, bench and deadlift (look familiar)? As a powerlifter primarily with some dabbling in strongman, I have found these 4 lifts to be very beneficial in reaching my goals, and focusing on improving them to be key to making progress. If one?s goals were a little more nebulous, I imagine you could use different movements than these, as long as they could follow ROM progression in their implementation.
Training follows 8 week waves. You will train heavy for 7 weeks and then deload on the 8th week before starting the cycle over.
Each training day starts with the primary lift of the day. At the start of the cycle, you will have the lift at a height such that it is 7 points higher than the bottom of the movement.
EXAMPLE: If you were using rubber patio pavers to elevate your deadlift, then at the start of the cycle you will have 6 patio pavers under the plates. On week 2, you will have 5, week 3 will have 4, week 4 will have 3, week 5 will have 2, week 6 will have 1, week 7 will have 0 (deadlift from the floor), and then at week 8 you will deload by only training the assistance work before starting the whole thing over. Ensure that you keep the weight on the bar the same each week.
(Note: When it comes to ROM progressing the other lifts, the most effective strategy I have found is suspending chains from the support beams of a power rack and then counting the amount of chain links I need to create the loop of chain needed to hold the bar at certain heights. It?s as easy as moving 7 links up the chain at the start of the cycle and moving down to the bottom range of the movement. For overhead pressing, I have to sit on a bench, but if you have a high power rack, you could most likely still do it standing.)
PRESS DAY
-(Chain Suspended) Strict Press
1xAs Many As Possible
-Bench press variation
5x10
-Curl variation
5x10
-Lateral/Rear delt work
3x15-20
Pull up variation performed in between each set. Consider setting a rep goal for the day and meeting it in the workout.
SQUAT DAY
-(Chain Suspended) Squat
1xAMAP
-Hamstring/lower back work
3-4x8-12
-Ab work
3-4x8-12
-Squat variation
3x10
1x20
I like to do a few sets of glute ham raises in between my warm-up sets for squats, but otherwise you can throw in some more hamstring/lower back work as needed.
BENCH DAY
-(Chain Suspended) Bench
1xAMAP
-Overhead press variation
5x10
-Band pushdowns
100 reps
There are a few options with back work on this day. You want to have some sort of row variation here. You can either train it 5 sets of 10 like the overhead press, or train it in between sets of other work like the pull up variations. Still keep the pull ups in here as well, and consider some band pull aparts too. You can?t go too wrong with volume.
DEADLIFT DAY
-Mat pull/deadlift (depending on time in cycle)
1xAMAP
-Hamstring/lower back work
3-4x8-12
-Ab work
3-4x8-12
-Row variation
1x30-50 reps (Kroc Row style)
-Squat variation
3x10
1x20
Just like squats, I like to get in a few sets of GHRs on this day as well for extra volume.