I was heartened to hear about people who have read Randy’s positive Ecdy posts, tried it and it helped them. As I said in an earlier post, it’s my way of getting back at an industry that has taken so much and delivered so little. I can appreciate the opinions of those that don’t believe Ecdy works, for whatever reason. To summarize, I don’t think much of 20hydroxyecdysteroneeither. Though it is the darling of the industry now, I can’t honestly say it helped me. Would explain a lot of the negative comments I believe and in particular Syntrabol’s bad reputation. The commercially viable alternatives are of course the 6 and 7 keto analogs, of which there are only 1 or 2 right now. These are synthetics, NOT derived from Rhapontium or Cyanotis Vaga and are a whole different animal. Two very different compounds (20H and 6-keto ECD) that deliver opposite results. The news gets worse. The 6-keto product isn’t in production anymore. I only ask that someone with the time, expertise and of course the money look into it. It does not hold all of the answers but certainly can provide meaningful benefits to many athletes. Please remember that “Ecdysterones” encompass a wide range of compounds from worthless to IMO incredible. Just as you wouldn’t take the steroid prednisone over the steroid dianabol, one wouldn’t select 20HECD over a 6-keto ECD analogue. There is a difference here, and I believe it accounts for the extreme positives and negatives we’re seeing. I’ve never used the gas, but multiple fina users have reported this product useful in keeping the weight on when coming off. Not many supplements out there that generate that kind of feedback. Think about it…
Mixelflick, can you go in to more detail on the 6-keto version not being produced any more?
Mixelflick,
Check out the beyond-a-century website. They have a product that they call Anabolica, that the description says is a functional analog of ECD (6-keto) formula. Is this the good stuff?
The story Randy is this. Around 1995 ZOE Discoveries came out with a product called Hexandrolone (hex = 6). It blew away their Zebutol, which I didn’t think could be done. It was on the market for a year or 2 and then disappeared. Then Anabolica emerged in 1999/2000. When I opened that bottle, I knew it was the same stuff, just 1/2 the mg amount. Smelled the same, dissolved the same under the tongue and delivered the same incredible gains. I put a few phone calls in and found out that sure enough, the guy who made it was the same chemist who worked for ZOE and made Hex. Unfortunately, he got visited while on probation and they found some recreational stuff and he’s going away for awhile. At least that’s the story. Supposedly, he’s the only one who knows how to make the stuff and now it’s in short supply. They have the molecular formula. I know they can derive the starter material from specific naturally sources and then synthesize. How you get from point A to point B though is a mystery to me (and probably a lot of other people). Personally, I love Anabolica lot# 365. Check your bottle. Now, can you help me out finding a replacement that isn’t 20-HECD? I’d go back to Zeb but the colors/quality/active ingredients vary so much… Any other ecdy-related suggestions? I’ve seen where 6-keto has been directly compared in studies to something called Prime Plus and leveton. Help an Ecdy brother out man… any suggestions?
Mixelflick,
From the way you ended your previous post it doesn’t look like you read my post directly above yours. Please take a look and tell me what you think.
Why oh why do I always get the feeling that Mixelflick is (1) Derek Cornelius or, at the very least, (2) a Biotest competitor who plans on soon introducing a ecdysterone product? Mixelflick?
Mixelflick,my Anabolica is lot 365# and it has the smell too.I search the web 3 or 4 times a week for new or cheaper ecdy products and I’ve never come across any 6-keto versions,but I won’t give up. If I come across anything I will post you,I hope you will do the same.
Does anybody on this thread read the previous posts before responding?
Randy, as I already stated, check out the beyond-a-century website.
I have used ecy for some time now. It gave me best results when stacked with either 19 nor 17 diol or with 5 alphaandrostene 3-17 beta- diol or with 5 androstenetriol all from Kilo sports. I have used these products with ecy and alone. I get best results with stacking it.
Now my question is. This study, what type of control, Do we all eat the same food amounts of protein, carb and fat? Why? if i beef up my calorie intake without any suplement,my weight and amount of pounds I lift will increase. How will you create a control to do this study?
Peace. Mac
Without a doubt, Cornholio is the biggest
scum bag by a huge margin in the entire
industry. He is, in my opinion, the scum of
all scum. And my opinion regarding ecdysterone
is independent of Derek. Whether he pimps
and pushes it or not, it is still junk.
If it worked, don't you think I would be pressing Tim here to make a Biotest version?
Brock
I’ll agree, Brock has a bias with regards
to Cornholio, but that doesn’t mean that
the facts don’t also condemn that individual.
I’ve had little personal dealings with him
but what I’ve seen completely backs everything
up. I happened to be the guy at Biotest who
knew the Army Security Agency investigator
we used to find out who was impersonating
Brock on the Internet, “apologizing” and
“admitting” to Biotest products being fraudulent. Where were those posts coming
from? Syntrax. In some cases, within less
than a minute of a signed Cornholio e-mail
being sent from the same port. Slimeball!
Also, Cornholio has claimed that Biotest
stole the ether prohormone concept from him.
I personally know this to be an utter lie,
and know for a fact that he learned
of it from our (then) intended manufacturing
partner. Blatant lying.
Just because Brock is biased doesn’t mean
that Cornholio isn’t indeed slime.
Besides this I’ve been cc’ed various e-mails
where the guy was just plainly lying through
his teeth. I don’t think the excuse for him
that there are other people in the industry
that are also slime is a good excuse. Not
even if most of them were, and not even
if most of them were just as bad: still not
an excuse. But in fact I think that is painting
the industry with a much worse brush than is
fair. There are some people that have ethical
problems, but let’s not say everyone does, and let’s not use that as an excuse for anybody.
I’am sorry buster for not responding,I have been away all day.The Anabolica at (bac) is the quality stuff,It is from Maxwell Research. I ordered some extra last night,because from what mixelflick said about it might be hard to get in the future.Try it, it works, and it’s cheap compared to what it cost’s at other nutrition outlets.
Just a quick question…Are ketosteroids the same thing as ecdysterone?
Kelly… Don’t think so. Though ecdysteroids share a common steroid backbone, they possess other functional groups (i.e beta hydroxlys at carbons 2 & 3, a ketone in B ring etc.) I don’t think they’re the same as the 7/17 ketoroids occasionally mentioned. With ecdysteroids, the cholestane side chain and functional groups extending from it are altered. Amino discounters did this initially some years ago with Mesobolin and that got pulled real fast. A ketone in the B ring and a ketone at C-17 are part of the requirements for ecdysterones to “work”. This is partly why I believe 20-HECD doesn’t work as well. There needs to be some chemical manipulation (which I believe is why Anabolica has that “smell” to it Randy… Something like 7-keto DHEA acts as an analog of some ecdysteroids because they possess the necessary functional groups for “activity”. Good starter material for the 6-keto product is plant based, can be found in the Journal “Phytochemistry”, 1989, vol. 28, no. 9 pp. 2509-2511. Here you’ll find where laxogenin acetate occurs, the active ingredient (or damn close to it) in “anabolica”. I only wish I had the knowledge/resources to pursue it. Bill, don’t you think this deserves at least a look? I would imagine someone of your expertise and intelligence would enjoy the challenge…
Mixelflick, it very possibly is an interesting thing to look into. But whether an ecdysteroid has activity, measurable by assay, with insects may have nothing to do with whether it has anabolic activity in man (if any of them do.) In other words, an insect assay, or structure activity relationships determined from insect assays, couldn’t be expected to be a good predictor for man, since we don’t have the same receptors.
It could be interesting to determine whether these have useful ergogenic properties in man, and if so by what mechanism, and if so what the structure activity relationships are, but before wanting to do so, one would tend to want to have particular reason for thinking success is reasonably likely with this. It would consume a lot of resources (for an individual or small company) to study this seriously. Right now I’d rather just see what people seem to think they get out of it (which is not always so reliable, but on the other hand, there are people who you come to know as being accurate observers and their observations are worth listening to.)
As usual, Bill is dead on. Research consumes tons more resources than anyone not associated with academia or non-academic science can fathom. We are talking loads of time and money. And not only that, we are talking careers. What I mean to say is that a project, even a very minor one, can take 6 months - 1 year to finish. Bigger research questions take even longer. Scientists choose to study only the subjects that will produce fruitful lines of investigations for years to come rather than hit or miss projects. Things that could spin off of a single project into more detailed work. Ecdysterones simply dont have enough scientific validity right now to devote the kind of time and money to. Without a theoretical/ physiological/ biochemical/ pharmaceutical framework for even how to go about studying these things, how does one even design a project to see what they do? And if you do take a shot in the dark at what to measure and are wrong, then you’ve wasted lots of time and money on nothing at all. In the end you cant even say if they work or not. The non-researchers on this board have to realize that they dont see the full picture. Again, Im not saying Ecdysterone doesnt work. Im just saying that you wont see any research on this stuff for a long time (if ever). So that’s why I proposed a little informal survey here on the forum.
I’m also not clear on which particular ecdysteroids you guys believe work well, and which ones you believe do not.
Now, Mixelflick says specifically that “5 alpha hyroxy laxogenin acetate” is what he used when experiencing these excellent results. That name is not sufficient to be sure of the compound, unless he really means that there is a hydroxy in the 5 alpha position, rather than that it is a 5 alpha androstan and has a hydroxy somewhere unspecified. (Usually one would assume that such-and-such number alpha hydroxy would mean that the hydroxy was at that position, but 5alpha is a damned unusual position for a hydroxy, but 5alpha androstans are quite common.)
Mixelflick says that 20-hydroxyecdysterone did nothing for him.
Tim reports truly outstanding reports from “beta-ecdysterone.” What compound is this? The name seems quite vague. “Beta” can’t refer to a keto group, and Mixelflick says a 6 or 7 keto is necessary; it could only refer to
a hydroxyl, methyl or other such substituent; or be referring to a hydrogen within the steroid structure, but in any case the number would be required.
Are you guys in agreement that a currently
available product, Anabolica from BAC, is the
stuff that you believe works?
Bugs are a very popular dish in some other cultures, and I haven’t noticed any of them looking like Mr Olympia 
I ordered some of the Anabolica from Beyond a Century as well and will post my feedback in a few weeks.
All right you guys got me interested too. Next time I order from BAC I’ll get some Anabolica and give it a try. I’ll take it at 50mg/day, 25mg AM and 25mg PM, for 4 weeks and see what happens.