Pussy-itis, Do You Have It?

Training Bodybuilding
241

Just to derail for a minute here.

I like threads that have discussion in them. Different viewpoints being talked about and shared. It is these type of threads that I feel are the most informative.

Now the flame war arguments fuck that all up and aren’t good for anything. Yes some people seemingly have chips on their shoulders. Why I’ve got no idea, but when threads devolve into something of that sort is when a thread should just be left to die.

/end derailment

The argument over the log book is moot really. We all know that different things work for different people in that regard. When I got a lot of shit going on in my life a log book helps. Most times it’s an after the fact thing, but that’s because my memory is mostly shit a lot of times (too much tuna fish lol)

For me and my point, like I said I don’t look at my PRs as “goals” I look at them as progression. That to me is key, if I’m moving forward then I’m working towards my end goal, and not getting mired down in the small stuff.

242

yeah 7" arms? were you measuring diameter? I haven’t run across a grown woman with 7" arms, even 100 lb ones.

243

[quote]Aggro wrote:
Just to derail for a minute here.

I like threads that have discussion in them. Different viewpoints being talked about and shared. It is these type of threads that I feel are the most informative.

Now the flame war arguments fuck that all up and aren’t good for anything. Yes some people seemingly have chips on their shoulders. Why I’ve got no idea, but when threads devolve into something of that sort is when a thread should just be left to die.

/end derailment

The argument over the log book is moot really. We all know that different things work for different people in that regard. When I got a lot of shit going on in my life a log book helps. Most times it’s an after the fact thing, but that’s because my memory is mostly shit a lot of times (too much tuna fish lol)

For me and my point, like I said I don’t look at my PRs as “goals” I look at them as progression. That to me is key, if I’m moving forward then I’m working towards my end goal, and not getting mired down in the small stuff.[/quote]

Just to clarify, I am not arguing that no one needs a log book…but I am arguing that the large numbers of people using them could be holding themselves back especially if they are the type like we see here often who get so caught up in tiny details that they lose sight of the larger picture and never make much overall progress even if the numbers are going up by grams.

244

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah 7" arms? were you measuring diameter? I haven’t run across a grown woman with 7" arms, even 100 lb ones.[/quote]

I thought most little boys had at least 10" arms. The humerus alone should measure more than 7" in a grown man.

245

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
Okay, I see. You are equating 15 inch arms with a non-training individual. I think your estimation is high, probably by several inches.

In my case, as I have stated elsewhere, I started with 7 inch arms after some early training (I got stronger, I do not know if any bigger). I did a plenty of manual labor growing up and I played sports that were leg, not arm dependent. Just a small kid from a family of small (short, small framed) people.

I started with wrists and elbows that hurt during arm exercises (for years, actually still hurt often enough) and added in nerve damage (neck/back) after lifting two years. Arms were not my strong point. Constant pain outside the gym is not a whole lot of motivation.

But now years later I do have 15+ inch arms. I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms. But while I understand the point you are trying to make, I have grown tired of this dismissive measurement (15") as if that could in no way represent achievement of any kind. I know my experience may be an exception (though not exceptional) I have to think there is a decent sized population here starting with much smaller arms than you assume.

Not sure what to suggest as an alternative, but since you have expressed concern for the newbies here–perhaps you can take this into consideration.

I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood in Houston, Tx. I doubt I have ever seen anyone over the age of 10 who had 7" arms unless they were anorexic.

I understand we all have different backgrounds, but hopefully you aren’t suggesting that 7" arms are normal for grown men who are just starting training. I would go as far as to say that is pretty abnormal for anyone who is active beforehand.

Yes, I do think most grown MEN should have arms somewhere close to at least 14" (maybe 12-13" if you avoided even playing basketball in the afternoons) before serious training unless they have extremely weak genetics and/or were extremely inactive most of their lives.

By active, I would guess I mean being involved in sports as a kid, made to carry out the trash, wash the car, mow the yard and various other activities that would at least have most guys looking like “men” even if they never lifted formally.

If that is a DRASTIC overestimation, then I can only imagine I grew up in a very strange community.[/quote]

I am not suggesting that normal men have 7" arms - hell, no. I have always been very self-conscious of my arms for the very reason that I knew that were very small.

I mowed the lawn, busted rocks/dug holes for trees/fences, etc. (grew up in at the edge of the Hill country) Again, played more leg sports (soccer, cycling, track) but shot hoops when I could. So, I guess call me weak genetics. No excuse.

I agree looking around most men have roughly 13-14" arms, but fleshy. Given the increase in sedentary lifestyles…

On a related note, I had a student suggest (on an exam) that metrosexuals were people with XXY genes–somewhere between men and women, a third sex if you will. So, maybe that will give some insight in the state of men’s arms.

246

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yes, I do think most grown MEN should have arms somewhere close to at least 14" (maybe 12-13" if you avoided even playing basketball in the afternoons) before serious training unless they have extremely weak genetics and/or were extremely inactive most of their lives.

[/quote]

It bothers me to see grown men come in and be unable to bench 95 pounds. Maybe I’m a wrong in thinking that a man should have a modicum of strength even if he doesn’t train so that it sets him apart from the women.

I also think that men should have worked at least 1 physically demanding job throughout their career. Digging ditches, working construction, mowing lawns, just something that again sets them apart from females.

247

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

But now years later I do have 15+ inch arms. I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms. But while I understand the point you are trying to make, I have grown tired of this dismissive measurement (15") as if that could in no way represent achievement of any kind. I know my experience may be an exception (though not exceptional) I have to think there is a decent sized population here starting with much smaller arms than you assume.
[/quote]

Congradulations on making progress.

however, this is T-Nation.com. look what it says right up top “the intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle”

if you don’t even look like you work out when you have a shirt on, how do you expect us to praise you?

248

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Aggro wrote:
I write my shit down after my workout, just more as something to look at before going into the next workout.

I’m not exactly sure why people need to be able to put little gold stars next to a workout. I’ve got end goals I’m trying to reach, I don’t need a pat on my back for a PR on a 5RM. Not faulting those that do, but I just think you need to worry less about the minutiae and simply lift heavy weights.

I’ll give you a little insight then. I keep a very detailed training log. I have rep PR’s and weight PR’s in pretty much everything. One of the most, if not the most effective tools, for progressing in the gym has been striving to set PR’s everytime I go into the gym. I change up everything every four weeks. There is no way that i could keep track of all this information without writing it down.

Simply lifting heavy weights works to a point but if you don’t keep track of what’s working and what isn’t, you will end up doing a lot of work for nothing. The body adapts to your training very quickly. I’m constantly taking notes about my form and where my sticking points are at a given time.

I see so many people in the gym just going through the motions. They go in and do their flat bench every week and wonder why they are still only benching 315lbs. What they don’t realize is if they were to just examine that bench press and determine where their weakpoints are, then they would really make some progress. For example, I see guys doing their full ROM bench press every week. They will pyramid that weight up and then they will eventually go to failure. The next week i will see them do the same damn thing. What they need to do is really take a look at that bench and determine why they are failing. Is their form crap? Are they going to failure too often? Has their body adapted to that same damn movment and is refusing to grow? Do they have a weak muscle group that isn’t getting overloaded?

I totally understand where you are coming from. I thought that way for wayyy too long. And that’s why all my lifts were mediocre at best. Once i started paying attention to the details and doing some research, my lifts went through the roof. To give you another example- I competed in bodybuilding for many years and I was pretty damn good at it. Although compared to my strength levels now, I was weak as piss. I really wish i had known then what i know now. I would have been twice as big. Up until I was 30 years old, I couldn’t bench more than 315. I couldn’t squat more than 405. In 4 years, my bench climbed into the low to mid 500’s, squat 700 and deadlift 700 all raw. And i owe it all to the day the light bulb went off in my head and i realized that lifting hard wasn’t nearly enough. You have to lift smart and pay attention to everything.

I’m off my soapbox now. I really wish i could get through to most of you that being your best means not dismissing anything. Soak it all in. Try it all. Also, don’t get wrapped up in what others are doing and how stupid they look or what the hell they wear. This past week we had the Hooter’s girls come into our gym for some promotion. I had NO IDEA that they were even there until one of my teammates told me. I don’t see people in the gym anymore. I only see what i’m doing. I don’t hear the music, I don’t see the douchebag curling the bumper plates in the squat rack.

[/quote]

thank you.
this thread started well, turned to utter shit somewhwere in the middle and was rescued by this post and the subsequent intelligent debate. lets stop the posturing and the posing along with the sweaty designer clothing arguments as to who is more hardcore, and listen to the big guys speak.

249

[quote]Aggro wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Yes, I do think most grown MEN should have arms somewhere close to at least 14" (maybe 12-13" if you avoided even playing basketball in the afternoons) before serious training unless they have extremely weak genetics and/or were extremely inactive most of their lives.

It bothers me to see grown men come in and be unable to bench 95 pounds. Maybe I’m a wrong in thinking that a man should have a modicum of strength even if he doesn’t train so that it sets him apart from the women.

I also think that men should have worked at least 1 physically demanding job throughout their career. Digging ditches, working construction, mowing lawns, just something that again sets them apart from females. [/quote]

Judging by the measurements on this board, I am assuming that does not take place much anymore.

I had 15" arms when I first set foot in a gym on a regular basis. That was strictly from being a guy and doing guy things. I had one dumbbell set I bought from Target that I think only went up to 30lbs so I had done some curls with that on a fairly regular basis in my room.

I had no clue that this made me some genetic freak.

My grandmother had me mowing lawns, cleaning gutters, picking up big tree branches and a ton of other shit that was considered “my responsibility” as a guy.

This must not happen anymore.

That biceps thread a while back was pretty disheartening.

250

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah 7" arms? were you measuring diameter? I haven’t run across a grown woman with 7" arms, even 100 lb ones.

I thought most little boys had at least 10" arms. The humerus alone should measure more than 7" in a grown man.[/quote]

I remember flexing for my dad and him being able to wrap his hand around my arm. I do not come from a family with large hands.

What can I say, I was pretty damn tiny. I always wore long sleeves year around in Texas.

251

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:

But now years later I do have 15+ inch arms. I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms. But while I understand the point you are trying to make, I have grown tired of this dismissive measurement (15") as if that could in no way represent achievement of any kind. I know my experience may be an exception (though not exceptional) I have to think there is a decent sized population here starting with much smaller arms than you assume.

Congradulations on making progress.

however, this is T-Nation.com. look what it says right up top “the intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle”

if you don’t even look like you work out when you have a shirt on, how do you expect us to praise you?[/quote]

where does this come from?

252

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah 7" arms? were you measuring diameter? I haven’t run across a grown woman with 7" arms, even 100 lb ones.

I thought most little boys had at least 10" arms. The humerus alone should measure more than 7" in a grown man.

I remember flexing for my dad and him being able to wrap his hand around my arm. I do not come from a family with large hands.

What can I say, I was pretty damn tiny. I always wore long sleeves year around in Texas.[/quote]

I’m not bashing you for being small. However, your previous post as if that was normal made it seem as if I came from the land of the giants and all of the “normal” people simply had no chance of ever casually having an arm over 14".

If I even see a grown man with arms much smaller than that I assume he is weak in character, mind and body. How could someone like that even defend the ones they love if they ever needed to? How could they defend themselves?

I always remembered most of the guys I grew up around at least doing push ups and sit ups on a regular basis. If you grow up in a rough neighborhood, being ridiculously weak looking is a great way to get set up.

253

MM,you move some sick numbers, thing is, I’ve never seen anyone move close to those weights keeping a log. I can see how that information over time can be valuable to a powerlifter.

My numbers are decent, not great…and between being away from it for 15 years and a blown out pec I’m not looking for any arguments. But the log books aren’t helpful if the effort isn’t there. And I haven’t seen anyone putting in hard work keeping a log.

254

[quote]Aggro wrote:
I write my shit down after my workout, just more as something to look at before going into the next workout.

I’m not exactly sure why people need to be able to put little gold stars next to a workout. I’ve got end goals I’m trying to reach, I don’t need a pat on my back for a PR on a 5RM. Not faulting those that do, but I just think you need to worry less about the minutiae and simply lift heavy weights. [/quote]

This is the log book thread now? :slight_smile:

I get your point, but the thing is I cannot for the life of me remember after the workout is over how many reps I got. I do a lot of rest-pause, and that makes it harder to remember exactly.

I don’t go into a set thinking: “ok, I got 10 reps last time, so if I get 11 now, I can just stop.” I try to crush those previous numbers every time.

I can see myself not needing to write it down immediately when I get a few more years of lifting experience, maybe.

Does this mean I have pussy-itis now? Quick, what’s the cure? :slight_smile:

255

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:

But now years later I do have 15+ inch arms. I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms. But while I understand the point you are trying to make, I have grown tired of this dismissive measurement (15") as if that could in no way represent achievement of any kind. I know my experience may be an exception (though not exceptional) I have to think there is a decent sized population here starting with much smaller arms than you assume.

Congradulations on making progress.

however, this is T-Nation.com. look what it says right up top “the intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle”

if you don’t even look like you work out when you have a shirt on, how do you expect us to praise you?

where does this come from?[/quote]

TexAg, seriously man, we’re not here to praise you. It might be cool and all that you’re sporting 15’ guns but I mean cmon man, enough is enough, please quit all the bragging. lol

256

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Aggro wrote:
I write my shit down after my workout, just more as something to look at before going into the next workout.

I’m not exactly sure why people need to be able to put little gold stars next to a workout. I’ve got end goals I’m trying to reach, I don’t need a pat on my back for a PR on a 5RM. Not faulting those that do, but I just think you need to worry less about the minutiae and simply lift heavy weights.

This is the log book thread now? :slight_smile:

I get your point, but the thing is I cannot for the life of me remember after the workout is over how many reps I got. I do a lot of rest-pause, and that makes it harder to remember exactly.

I don’t go into a set thinking: “ok, I got 10 reps last time, so if I get 11 now, I can just stop.” I try to crush those previous numbers every time.

I can see myself not needing to write it down immediately when I get a few more years of lifting experience, maybe.

Does this mean I have pussy-itis now? Quick, what’s the cure? :)[/quote]

The cure is asking yourself on a regular basis if you are being a pussy.

If you are about to quit because that 8th rep is burning but you might…just MIGHT…be able to get one last rep, “are you a pussy?” “Has pussy-itis overtaken my soul?” “Have I contributed to the inflammation in the number of pussies across the globe?”

The real pussies are the ones who don’t ask that question.

257

[quote]GDI Inc wrote:
MM,you move some sick numbers, thing is, I’ve never seen anyone move close to those weights keeping a log. I can see how that information over time can be valuable to a powerlifter.

My numbers are decent, not great…and between being away from it for 15 years and a blown out pec I’m not looking for any arguments. But the log books aren’t helpful if the effort isn’t there. And I haven’t seen anyone putting in hard work keeping a log. [/quote]

I’m definitely not here to argue. there’s no point in it. It’s a waste of time. But so many people revel in it.

Pretty much all the elite level lifters that I know keep detailed logs.

258

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
yeah 7" arms? were you measuring diameter? I haven’t run across a grown woman with 7" arms, even 100 lb ones.

I thought most little boys had at least 10" arms. The humerus alone should measure more than 7" in a grown man.

I remember flexing for my dad and him being able to wrap his hand around my arm. I do not come from a family with large hands.

What can I say, I was pretty damn tiny. I always wore long sleeves year around in Texas.

I’m not bashing you for being small. However, your previous post as if that was normal made it seem as if I came from the land of the giants and all of the “normal” people simply had no chance of ever casually having an arm over 14".

If I even see a grown man with arms much smaller than that I assume he is weak in character, mind and body. How could someone like that even defend the ones they love if they ever needed to? How could they defend themselves?

I always remembered most of the guys I grew up around at least doing push ups and sit ups on a regular basis. If you grow up in a rough neighborhood, being ridiculously weak looking is a great way to get set up.[/quote]

I am sorry if it was not as clear as I hoped, all I was suggesting is that many start with sub-15" arms. I believe I said I was an exception.

I do not disagree (though perhaps not fully agree) with your assessment of men with small arms, for we did not grow up that far apart–considering an overarching Texas culture. I have always been concerned with my ability to defend myself and others and was a strong motivation to starting to work out in college. I would not describe my neighborhood as rough, but I had my share of fights. Once I moved, gangs were common and run-ins not infrequent. I do not believe I was viewed as a threat and used my wits - an associations - to keep me out of the worst of it.

But keep in mind that different geographies create different body norms. What was normal in your neighborhood may not be elsewhere.

Hell, I am an academic now and stand out in that environment with these small arms. Sad but true. But the whole mind/body dichotomy is for another thread.

259

[quote]markdp wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:

But now years later I do have 15+ inch arms. I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms. But while I understand the point you are trying to make, I have grown tired of this dismissive measurement (15") as if that could in no way represent achievement of any kind. I know my experience may be an exception (though not exceptional) I have to think there is a decent sized population here starting with much smaller arms than you assume.

Congradulations on making progress.

however, this is T-Nation.com. look what it says right up top “the intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle”

if you don’t even look like you work out when you have a shirt on, how do you expect us to praise you?

where does this come from?

TexAg, seriously man, we’re not here to praise you. It might be cool and all that you’re sporting 15’ guns but I mean cmon man, enough is enough, please quit all the bragging. lol[/quote]

I am assuming this is a joke.

If not, what part of “I do not think they are big and I do not give advice on how to get bigger arms” is going misunderstood.

At what point is praise asked for?

260

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Aggro wrote:
I write my shit down after my workout, just more as something to look at before going into the next workout.

I’m not exactly sure why people need to be able to put little gold stars next to a workout. I’ve got end goals I’m trying to reach, I don’t need a pat on my back for a PR on a 5RM. Not faulting those that do, but I just think you need to worry less about the minutiae and simply lift heavy weights.

This is the log book thread now? :slight_smile:

I get your point, but the thing is I cannot for the life of me remember after the workout is over how many reps I got. I do a lot of rest-pause, and that makes it harder to remember exactly.

I don’t go into a set thinking: “ok, I got 10 reps last time, so if I get 11 now, I can just stop.” I try to crush those previous numbers every time.

I can see myself not needing to write it down immediately when I get a few more years of lifting experience, maybe.

Does this mean I have pussy-itis now? Quick, what’s the cure? :slight_smile:

The cure is asking yourself on a regular basis if you are being a pussy.

If you are about to quit because that 8th rep is burning but you might…just MIGHT…be able to get one last rep, “are you a pussy?” “Has pussy-itis overtaken my soul?” “Have I contributed to the inflammation in the number of pussies across the globe?”

The real pussies are the ones who don’t ask that question.

[/quote]

This is why I have a problem with all these programs which really hammer in that you shouldn’t train to failure. Hopefully the more experienced guys can back me up, but I can honestly say that until I stopped trying to avoid failure, I had no idea what failure even was. I think it takes a whole lot of repeated balls-to-the-wall effort to develop the focus required to even comprehend this level of intensity.