I never see women hitting men. It just doesn’t come up in my circles. I’d definitely think it was bad behavior.
(Unless you guys mean a playful punch in the arm when a guy says something silly, because I do that, and I would hope most guys are thick-skinned enough not to consider that “abuse.”)
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Okay, I am not even sure if this is thread worthy but I was hijacking the hitting women thread.
It has been mentioned that some women today seem to be okay with hitting men. They will shove, slap, punch and even spit on men and either think the guy won’t and shouldn’t do anything, or they think they can go toe-to-toe with a man.
I don’t agree with any of that.
What I am asking is what is the cause of this violent behavior from some women? I don’t know if it is the media, I wonder if it is that some men seem less manly. Is the combination of this less than manly male and the media causing women to take advantage and become aggressive and violent, or is it that the women are frustrated and are pushing these men to step up and be men?
I do not mean to equate violence with manliness. I love a strong man but I would not put up with a man who hit me.
Men are frustrated and women are frustrated as things seem so unclear in regards to behavior.
I hear the message from some men that they feel as if women are taking advantage of the “do not hit women” and then going to the legal system to punish men.
I also know of women who encounter men who treat them badly and abuse them and then will also use the legal system and the social system to get back. Many of these men are great at emotional and mental abuse.
So what is the cause and is there a way to change what is happening?
[/quote]
October Girl… I will give a brief explanation why:
The reason for this pussification of men and violent women is the natural result of a society, an education system, and Civil/Criminal Laws that tell men to RESTRAIN and PLACATE women. In exchange society, the education system, and Civil/Criminal Laws tell men that they will be rewarded with “pussy and a the love of a woman”.
Now… let me break this process down for ya:
What is happening in the US society in an increase in “entitlement attitude” among women, and an increase in men putting up with disrespect because they were told that women will sleep with ‘nice men’.
This kinda shit starts in school and the home.
-Boys are told to become docile, they are also told that fighting makes matters worst, and that they should treat all women like little princess. For following this behavior boys are given applause and acknowledgment. Those boys who break this pattern, those who get into fights, tease girls, and won’t sit still (unless shown strong authority) are reprimanded. These bad-boys spend their breaks in detention and parents are called in to hear the teacher/adviser dictate all of the boy’s misconducts. (insert accusations of bullying)
-Once puberty hits, dealing with women is added a sexual layer. At this point School, TV, Movies, Magazines, Mothers, etc tell the boys that to get a girlfriend he must be NICE to the girl. He must put up with all her little quirks, even if she is disrespectful.
-Girls are told that they are BETTER than boys. Through middle school and high school girl are taught that women have historically been politically repressed (like the black slaves), and that now the world is living a new age of women emancipation. They are taught that family traditions are a product of men keeping women down. But the worst traditions of all are the ancient and Oriental male hierarchical-families. Boys are also told this.
-In addition girls are given preferential treatment when it comes to disputes among girls and boys. If any boy tries to check (verbally or physically) a disrespecting girl, he is in way worst trouble than if he checked another boy.
-In addition TV, Movies, Books, Magazines, Mothers and Daddies, etc tell women that when it comes to dealing with men they should assert themselves constantly. And they should expect men to placate them.
The result towards the end of H.S and College is that men are CONSTANTLY putting up with disrespect from women. Women, for their part keep pushing, and many end up with a sense of entitlement and an attitude.
NEVERTHELESS… you cannot change human nature.
-These entitled girls fall the hard for the ass-hole guy who treats them like nothing.
-These docile boys become extremely frustrated in their inability to get girlfriends when they are doing all the “right” things.
Now, add another two layers:
(1)Laws and courts favor women. The assumption is that man is stronger and the aggressor, while a woman is peaceful and honest. Thus a woman’s word weighs more than a man’s in court. And the repercussions for a man being involved in physical or verbal altercation with a woman are worst than if the altercation were between him and another men.
-This causes men to further RESTRAIN themselves and put up with disrespect. Women respond by pushing it some more.
(2)Don’t get me stared with divorce courts, alimony and the child support system.
-This shit causes married men to cut their balls in the relationship. Other men avoid marriage with an American womnan like a plague.
Now… a question:
WHY do women keep pushing it??? Logically it does NOT follow that if a man restrains and is nice to a woman this woman will disrespect him. So why is it happening???
Its human feminine nature:
Women push men because that is what their nature tells them to do. How else is a woman supposed to differentiate between a pussy and a men of strong character? The natures logic is “If I, his wife-to-be who wields not power over him, can walk all over him, there is no telling what others will do to him”
So the more men keep on self-restraining, the more women keep on pushing. And that also is why ass-holes get pussy so easily. Women are desperate to find a man who won’t kiss their ass.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
…
(Unless you guys mean a playful punch in the arm when a guy says something silly, because I do that, and I would hope most guys are thick-skinned enough not to consider that “abuse.”)[/quote]
No that is considered a good thing. It means I did something right and some sexual/tease tension is happening as a result.
Regardless of your sex, if you are interacting with someone bigger/stronger/faster than you, male or female, there is a line that you just don’t cross.
Most males seem to understand this. Most women over 30 seem to understand this.
Physical violence in all it’s forms, including self defense is wrong, but unfortunately in limited applications, it is a necessary wrong. And no, a playful punch to the arm doesn’t constitute violence.
[quote]Neospartan wrote:
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
…
(Unless you guys mean a playful punch in the arm when a guy says something silly, because I do that, and I would hope most guys are thick-skinned enough not to consider that “abuse.”)[/quote]
No that is considered a good thing. It means I did something right and some sexual/tease tension is happening as a result.[/quote]
Congratulations, creepiest comment award. Like the psychologists that tries to impress people by dissecting social situations as they are going on as he and those that he is trying to impress are involved in the situation. Nothing cooler dude.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Okay, I am not even sure if this is thread worthy but I was hijacking the hitting women thread.
It has been mentioned that some women today seem to be okay with hitting men. They will shove, slap, punch and even spit on men and either think the guy won’t and shouldn’t do anything, or they think they can go toe-to-toe with a man.
I don’t agree with any of that.
What I am asking is what is the cause of this violent behavior from some women? I don’t know if it is the media, I wonder if it is that some men seem less manly. Is the combination of this less than manly male and the media causing women to take advantage and become aggressive and violent, or is it that the women are frustrated and are pushing these men to step up and be men?
I do not mean to equate violence with manliness. I love a strong man but I would not put up with a man who hit me.
Men are frustrated and women are frustrated as things seem so unclear in regards to behavior.
I hear the message from some men that they feel as if women are taking advantage of the “do not hit women” and then going to the legal system to punish men.
I also know of women who encounter men who treat them badly and abuse them and then will also use the legal system and the social system to get back. Many of these men are great at emotional and mental abuse.
So what is the cause and is there a way to change what is happening?
[/quote]
To me it has to do with a change in gender roles for lack of a better way of saying it. There is very little ladylike and gentlemanly behavior anymore. When we got rid of the treat a lady this way, a lady acts this way we had two different sets of jackasss increase in numbers.
Let’s look at cursing. If a woman is cursing like a sailor why should a man worry about cursing in front of a lady? What was once trashy behavior for men is now okay for both sexes. Not necessarily in my book, but it seems on the rise.
Go to a bar. 26 years ago when I turned 21 I saw more dumb , drunk young men compared to drunk young women. I saw a stat in Redbook recently how binge drinking increased from app 19% in women and 50 % in men in app 1985 to 50+ % in women to the same level in men in the mid 2000s. My number are ballpark I know, but it was app. that level.
So why men being drunk aholes has stayed the same, women have increased about 250% in the drunk ahole category. when you factor in that gals can’t hold their booze as well do to body size and physiology along with the you can’t tell me what to do attitude, I’m not surprised I’ve seen an increase in gals hitting guys.
Removing these “rules” didn’t liberate people it just made it okay for a gal to be an ahole too. Not really in my book, but in my experience very few chose the high road with freedom. Most people of both sexes chose the easy, lazy way out.
I’m not sure why people think a breakdown of traditional gender roles means a breakdown of the “family.” That’s bull.
If anything, it just means that the framework that was in place and accepted - that men do X and not Y and women do A but not B - got trashed. The framework people grew up with, that their parents functioned in, is no longer a constant in our lives and we are operating in an interim framework, where establishing “rules” for the new framework is like the Wild West, no formal law, just remnants of romanticized elements of the past framework - chivalry, maternal and paternal qualities ingrained in memory and constantly manipulated to the gain of each gender.
And the change in female behavior is partly due to their sexual liberation: they know they can leverage their sexuality to get what they want, to win favor with third parties in an argument with the opposite sex, and that, no matter how shitty they act, there’ll always be some desperate guy wanting to get in their pants, hence no devaluation of their sexuality as a result of poor behavior (which is what SHOULD happen, in my opinion).
Sexual liberation + men valuing women beyond their sexuality (i.e. taking into account their history of behavior, of dating partners) = a big reason why we see more unladylike behavior these days.
I was raised in a traditional culture. There is the domain of the man and the domain of the woman.
At the very least, the man should be CAPABLE of providing (financially). And if the woman can provide, too, then all the better for the family unit. But if the man is providing and the woman is staying home, then for God’s sake keep a tidy, respectable household.
My friend’s dad remarried and he brings home the money while his new wife sits at home on Facebook. She doesn’t clean and doesn’t know how to cook. If he doesn’t bring a pizza home or something after he gets off work, his wife might actually starve to death. That’s sad.
Likewise, if the woman is providing, the man should be taking care of something else - the kids, the house, or at least trying to gain some education/skill set so he can provide soon, definitely in case of the woman suffering illness or getting pregnant.
Personally I think it has to do with most kids nowadays being without a dad. When I was a kid, I was scared to death of my dad. Not that he did anything to make me fear him, but I just knew that he was the alpha. He was in charge, and he made the rules. I hear shit that kids say to their parents, and I can’t believe it, simply because I know my dad would have knocked my head off if I had ever even dared to say something like that to him.
When you have somebody who is a strong, manly, leader in your life, it teaches you respect. When you learn TO respect, you learn what deserves respect, and you also learn to recognize disrespect. I’ve never had a problem with disrespectful women, but if I did, I can tell you, I wouldn’t stand for it. You gotta nip that shit in the bud.
If a woman, or a lesser man, says something seriously disrespectful, you must act immediately, to put him or her in his place, and let him/her know that you won’t stand for such foolery. If you don’t act, post haste, they will think they got away with something, and they will forever see that as a victory. Putting them 1 notch above you, at least in their minds.
As complex as human society is, it really boils down to something as simple as a pack of wolves. You are either the boss, a strong alpha that everyone respects, and nobody fucks with, or if you show the slightest sign of weakness, you’ll end up as an omega who spends his whole life cowering, and being walked all over.
Simple answer, society is breeding a lot of this. And it has very little to do with being raised in a single-parent home, or being without a male role-model. The onus doesn’t fall to “lower-class” people either. I had to laugh at some of this stuff. Just take a look at the newspaper, the television, the movies, the books, the music… The entire gender-equality thing has come a very long way.
It was only a matter of time before you begin to hear about more and more violence being used by women. It’s only a pity that the justice system is mostly blind to all of this. So that lil cushion right there provides these violent types an ace up the sleeve.
As for the apparent pussification of man, there have always been pussies, there will always be pussies. It is what it is. But you do have men that are hamstrung because of their situation. Both personal and societal. If any assistance is required from the woman in a relationship, unfortunately, society preaches that the man is weak, and the woman is alpha.
Some woman are level-headed enough to happily assist the man, while others abuse the situation. Same for domestic incidents. With the justice system still dawdling somewhere in the 20th century, most men have no chance of coming out on top. Men know this. Women know this. I don’t think I need to go much further than that.
The kids today tend to be pieces of shit largely due to society and our good ol’ justice system yet again. Discipline your kid, you go to jail and the kid goes into foster care. Even in the military this happens! I had to raise hell when my office was trying to pursue courts-martial charges against a mother who disciplined a bad-behind boy.
He knew the system and told his teacher, and it snow-balled from there. Fuck that shit. That’s why we have so many issues with kids today. Parents can’t even discipline their own kids. Add to that, the prevalence of video games, the internet, cell phones, all this sedentary entertainment, and you have a recipe for further disaster.
To take this on a personal level, I was brought up in a single parent home, my mother, with my older brother. He was my role model until I was 8. His lessons were steeped in abuse. He went away when I was ten. My mother seemed to have gone with him. I had no real male role models. Most of what I have learned in regards to treatment of PEOPLE and how to be strong, I learned from either watching other family interactions, or thru the media. Some stuff I kept, some I trashed.
I grew up in Brooklyn, NY. My neighborhood wasn’t a bad one. My mother had a well paying job that put us in the middle-class range. While I have my share of mental/emotional issues, I do know what it means to be a man. My best friend grew up in MUCH better environment than I did, is married with kids. He used to be someone I looked up to and respected. Had his way with the ladies, and had his pick. His wife runs the household.
While I would still bend over backwards for him, I know he wouldn’t do the same, as his wife would have much to say about it. So, I avoid them like the plague. He made a conscious choice to turn in his Man-Card. I will not. /rant.
.
Firstly, let me say that i actually DO respect everyone’s opinion…With that caveat in place, I am going to have to disagree with those of you who say that “Violence is never correct” if you “have intelligence” or “even for self defense”…to me, in the world I work/live in this is about as legit as Justin Beber’s talent.
Next time a terrorist, Hitler, the Unibomber or Ted Bundy is about to end innocent lives, i will be sure to try to talk them down with long words rather than use my big dumb fists to neutralize the threat.
Violent people are real and are searching for people with the above mindset. You guys are the victims…They just better hope that big, strong, “un-intelligent” guys like me are there to stop them before you REALLY decimate them with your devastating insults and cutting witty banter…
Other than that, this has been a very interesting conversation…
Please carry on…i just couldn’t stand by and watch “The people who guard you while you sleep” take these little jabs without addressing it.
[quote]Alpha wrote:
Firstly, let me say that i actually DO respect everyone’s opinion…With that caveat in place, I am going to have to disagree with those of you who say that “Violence is never correct” if you “have intelligence” or “even for self defense”…to me, in the world I work/live in this is about as legit as Justin Beber’s talent.
Next time a terrorist, Hitler, the Unibomber or Ted Bundy is about to end innocent lives, i will be sure to try to talk them down with long words rather than use my big dumb fists to neutralize the threat.
Violent people are real and are searching for people with the above mindset. You guys are the victims…They just better hope that big, strong, “un-intelligent” guys like me are there to stop them before you REALLY decimate them with your devastating insults and cutting witty banter…
Other than that, this has been a very interesting conversation…
Please carry on…i just couldn’t stand by and watch “The people who guard you while you sleep” take these little jabs without addressing it. [/quote]
Allow me to applaud.
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Some woman are level-headed enough to happily assist the man, while others abuse the situation. Same for domestic incidents. With the justice system still dawdling somewhere in the 20th century, most men have no chance of coming out on top. Men know this. Women know this. I don’t think I need to go much further than that. [/quote]
But you have women who deny that this is the case. Look at the huge debate we had about men protecting themselves in marriage with a prenupt. For some reason, we even have men who try to defend this bullshit as if getting a prenupt somehow means you don’t love her enough.
Society has made men retarded and told them they get ass, 2.5 kids, the dream job and the house for it.
[quote]Alpha wrote:
Firstly, let me say that i actually DO respect everyone’s opinion…With that caveat in place, I am going to have to disagree with those of you who say that “Violence is never correct” if you “have intelligence” or “even for self defense”…to me, in the world I work/live in this is about as legit as Justin Beber’s talent.
Next time a terrorist, Hitler, the Unibomber or Ted Bundy is about to end innocent lives, i will be sure to try to talk them down with long words rather than use my big dumb fists to neutralize the threat.
Violent people are real and are searching for people with the above mindset. You guys are the victims…They just better hope that big, strong, “un-intelligent” guys like me are there to stop them before you REALLY decimate them with your devastating insults and cutting witty banter…
Other than that, this has been a very interesting conversation…
Please carry on…i just couldn’t stand by and watch “The people who guard you while you sleep” take these little jabs without addressing it. [/quote]
X2 haha. I couldn’t agree more.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Violence against anyone is unnecessary if you have intelligence.[/quote]
Agreed.
Yo Momma, why do you think there is so much more random violence with women these days? It is good to read that a lot of these posters aren’t seeing it happen in their lives, I don’t see it in mine. But we keep getting these threads pop up about “Should you hit a woman” and all these male posters with these situations where crazed women attack them.
Are the young women today more violent? If they are, why?
[/quote]
Because the world has slowly become an angry place to live in.
Didnt the bible say somthing about “The meek shale inherit the earth”. And Alpha you always have intelligent responses bravo big guy you make us muscle heads proud.
just my two cents…I think the lack of any positive male or female role model, plus add a generation of family breakdown and parental laziness, then you have men and women who act out inappropriately…
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
There is a big difference between aggressiveness and just being a douche bag. I think it’s the reason women are more violent now. It’s their natural reaction to men with no nuts, so to speak. What kind of woman wants a guy who is just like “yes dear ok dear bend me over and spank me dear”? I make a conscious decision to be a manly man man.[/quote]
I kinda think it is that way too.
I do think the media does portray it as okay to push men around and that men are stupid, and also that a lot of men seem to be all emo these days.
I love a strong protective man.[/quote]
Everyone gets info from the media, and popular media, sucks. Look at how men are portrayed on television shows, and in commercials, infomercials and what have you. Usually they look like bumbling fools. If I was a chick and my husband was like that character off of King of Queens, I would knock him the fuck out.