[quote]dianab wrote:
But really, I work with a lot of gay guys, some are flaming so much it hurts my eyes, but this is the extent of unmanliness I see.
[/quote]
There was a study done awhile back on rates of ‘domestic violence’ and found that male homosexual domestic violence occurred at higher rates than for women in heterosexual relationships and much higher than men in hetero relationships. Something to the effect of 30% (male homo), 20% (hetero women), and <10% (hetero men)
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
I think the phenomenon is more socio-economic than anything and you are getting bigger and bigger women in the lower social classes (whether it is in the ghettos or trailer parks) and this size probably makes them feel more empowered. Combine that with the stunted emotional growth from a lack of positive adult role models and they act like little children when they get frustrated or angry rather than dealing with these feelings as a responsible adult. What do little kids do when they get mad? They pull hair, kick, spit and hit each other.
DB[/quote]
I don’t know that it is socio-economic so much as the role modeling and learning. My sis and niece both have been pretty squarely planted in middle class. They did learn from early on though to hit out of anger.
I think that the rise in violence from women could have a lot to do with being raised in a single parent household, mainly by the mother, who has to serve all roles in the house- Bread winner, disciplinarian, care taker, etc. Men do not have the corner on bad coping skills, and women can pass their lack on to the next generation just as well as men have.
Combine that with a lack of masculine role modeling in the house, and you have some boys demonstrating classically feminine to androgynous characteristics and some girls displaying some classically male/androgynous characteristics.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Unconstrained by societal rules, we are all violent and we are more alike than different.
And there are ‘pussies’ everywhere.[/quote]
I agree with men and women being pussies.
But I think this is new behavior.
Do you not think this is new behavior?
Do you think women have always slapped and punched men like this and just that maybe now it is more talked about?
It seems to be new to me.
[/quote]
I punched my dad in the nose when I was 16 
so not new to me. He hit me first though. Did I think I was going to get away with anything? Hell no.
Behavior constraints on women have loosened. This is part of it. I don’t see it as a big problem, personally. I hit back. Just like my brother does. As such, if I throw a punch I will get one back.[/quote]
I am sorry you were in an abusive home.
I don’t find myself in situations where I have to resort to violence.
I was attacked once, but that wasn’t anything to do on my part.
[/quote]
It’s alright. I appreciate that I learned to throw a punch 
It’s a good skill to have!
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Okay, I am not even sure if this is thread worthy but I was hijacking the hitting women thread.
It has been mentioned that some women today seem to be okay with hitting men. They will shove, slap, punch and even spit on men and either think the guy won’t and shouldn’t do anything, or they think they can go toe-to-toe with a man.
I don’t agree with any of that.
What I am asking is what is the cause of this violent behavior from some women? I don’t know if it is the media, I wonder if it is that some men seem less manly. Is the combination of this less than manly male and the media causing women to take advantage and become aggressive and violent, or is it that the women are frustrated and are pushing these men to step up and be men?
I do not mean to equate violence with manliness. I love a strong man but I would not put up with a man who hit me.
Men are frustrated and women are frustrated as things seem so unclear in regards to behavior.
I hear the message from some men that they feel as if women are taking advantage of the “do not hit women” and then going to the legal system to punish men.
I also know of women who encounter men who treat them badly and abuse them and then will also use the legal system and the social system to get back. Many of these men are great at emotional and mental abuse.
So what is the cause and is there a way to change what is happening?
[/quote]
It is called deterioration of gender roles.
Breakdown of the family. If a young male does not have a good strong male rolemodel to look up to? you tell me.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
I have never seen this type of behavior from women (punching guys etc). Not in clubs, anywhere.
it’s wrong to hit anyone, unless you have to defend yourself from harm. (I think that was the point of the other thread, regardless of the attackers gender).
I’m not seeing that men are big pussies either. I mean some are and some aren’t, but I’m not seeing an epidemic or anything.[/quote]
You should take a trip to New York haha[/quote]
I live about an hour away LOL.
But really, I work with a lot of gay guys, some are flaming so much it hurts my eyes, but this is the extent of unmanliness I see.
There are some douchebags in my gym but they are all like 15, the rest of the guys there look pretty masculine to me.
I just don’t see it, maybe this is more prevalent in the states?[/quote]
Maybe you should talk to some of your fellow T-vixens in the Toronto area. They have complained about the lack of manly men in their areas in the past.
I don’t think it’s just in the U.S. as I work with a lot of Europeans and many of the younger men are pretty feminine too.
DB[/quote]
I live in Montreal, and although we have our share of metrosexuals, they all seem to be hanging with pretty hot chicks. So to each their own I guess. Toronto seems to be about the same, if not a bit more neurotic and stressed out ( :
I will admit that there is a lack of nice looking guy butts in this city though.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Unconstrained by societal rules, we are all violent and we are more alike than different.
And there are ‘pussies’ everywhere.[/quote]
I have to disagree with you there. A agree that we are all violent in nature to a certain extent, but I think it is because of societal rules that men are becoming wimpier than usual. Same reason why kids are disrespectful to their parents without consequence, divorce rates are rising, etc.
Everyone’s afraid of what “society” will offer them. If you spank your kid in public, all the sheep look at you like you’re a monster and some will report you to CPS.
If you defend your woman in public, instead of being a good guy, you’re now an “Alpha Male Lunatic” along with being called a nutjob, crazy. Because being non-confrontational is what’s best riiight? Wrong.[/quote]
Please quantify ‘wimpier’ with real data.
[/quote]
Would if i could, but i don’t think I’ve ever even seen let alone heard a survey or study about the subject at hand. I do, however, think that it is right in front of us in everyday life here in America.[/quote]
SO you think you see it… see what exactly? A vague description of a highly subjective quality of masculinity in and around some people more and more today as opposed and non quantifiable subjective and also vague description of masculinity as it was in the past (where you didn’t exist to witness first hand and can only observe through mass media…)
It feels like…you’re basing a lot of your opinions on your feelings…maybe you’re right ;)[/quote]
There a couple of non direct ways to quantitate this,
we could look at the rise of obesity,
we could use chronological surveys of aggression in adolescent males
we could look at the trend of positions of power held by males with time
I believe each of these areas would support the idea of the demasculinization of our society.
but you could not set up a balanced experiment around this idea.
Define abusive…what’s considered abuse now was considered discipline in past generations. It may not have been PC, but it sure seems to have been more effective than today’s standards. I don’t condone abuse, but aggression is a part of human nature. Sheltering from or lack of exposure to aggression simply breeds people with a limited skill set when it comes dealing with aggressive acts. On the other hand, some people only know how to respond with aggression. Luckily these are extremes.
I’d say that there are no “real people” left. Maybe its just me but I value "freaks"to me, that says you trul dont give a fuck…not much else states “alpha” than that.
I always say though, dominance can and should come from both genders…its a personality type, not biological.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
and also a lot of single moms. We have a big problem with dead beat dads and men with tons of “baby mamas”. No good male role models for the younger children.
[/quote]
This would be a great topic for another time.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59963,00.html
Violence against anyone is unnecessary if you have intelligence.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I’d say that there are no “real people” left. Maybe its just me but I value "freaks"to me, that says you trul dont give a fuck…not much else states “alpha” than that.[/quote]
Exactly.
If you really want to be a non-conformist, you have to look like us, think like us, and listen to the same music we do.
[quote]JackDanials wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
and also a lot of single moms. We have a big problem with dead beat dads and men with tons of “baby mamas”. No good male role models for the younger children.
[/quote]
This would be a great topic for another time.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59963,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadbeat_parent[/quote]
absolutely, but I don’t think anyone was saying it is only men.
My friend was working in the Child Enforcement division of the DA’s office here in San Diego and had to recuse herself because a person we both know, with 6 kids took off with some guy she met on the internet and she wasn’t paying anything.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Violence against anyone is unnecessary if you have intelligence.[/quote]
Agreed.
Yo Momma, why do you think there is so much more random violence with women these days? It is good to read that a lot of these posters aren’t seeing it happen in their lives, I don’t see it in mine. But we keep getting these threads pop up about “Should you hit a woman” and all these male posters with these situations where crazed women attack them.
Are the young women today more violent? If they are, why?
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Violence against anyone is unnecessary if you have intelligence.[/quote]
Agreed.
Yo Momma, why do you think there is so much more random violence with women these days? It is good to read that a lot of these posters aren’t seeing it happen in their lives, I don’t see it in mine. But we keep getting these threads pop up about “Should you hit a woman” and all these male posters with these situations where crazed women attack them.
Are the young women today more violent? If they are, why?
[/quote]
I think many of my generation, especially amongst females, has a bad case of what I like to call the-world-is-my-living-room-itis. This is, as the name suggests, where they treat the entire world as though it’s the same consequence-free environment as their living room. This manifests itself in many ways, it’s the kids who don’t bath, the girls who wear their PJ’s to their college class.
This also, I think, impacts the way they deal with other people, like 99% of their interactions don’t matter, and that they might as well be interacting with characters on their x box.
I think the overarching mechanism is a consequence-free environment for too long in their formative years… and even where the environment wasn’t consequence free (like in the case of kids who are violent because they were abused), the relationship between actions and consequences is blurry… and sort of “play by their own rules” (as dysfunctional families tend to be isolated, and isolate their children).
I would also say, that there is an aspect of overt sexuality in the kind of female on male violence we’re talking about in this thread. Most men who get hit, get hit by women they’ve been intimate with. Even the exceptions, like the girl and the navy guy in Hawaii, strike me as having sexual overtones. Maybe that’s because I think we all know that interaction wouldn’t have gone down that way between either two men or two women.
Edit: this was not the most articulate post. I apologize.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
Testosterone Replacement Therapy.
Seriously though, it seems that as america gets more and more comfortable with the good or easy life(work eat sleep), men are losing their natural agressiveness WHICH IS A GOOD THING
[/quote]
You do think it is a good thing?
I kinda like aggressive, dominant men. I also think they built this country.
I don’t want a mean guy though.
But is this the reason women are more violent now? Men are not filling that role of strong protectors?
[/quote]
Women want a man that is not safe, but is good. A Emperor, not a tyrant. A seducer, an authority, and a sincere man.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Unconstrained by societal rules, we are all violent and we are more alike than different.
And there are ‘pussies’ everywhere.[/quote]
I have to disagree with you there. A agree that we are all violent in nature to a certain extent, but I think it is because of societal rules that men are becoming wimpier than usual. Same reason why kids are disrespectful to their parents without consequence, divorce rates are rising, etc.
Everyone’s afraid of what “society” will offer them. If you spank your kid in public, all the sheep look at you like you’re a monster and some will report you to CPS.
If you defend your woman in public, instead of being a good guy, you’re now an “Alpha Male Lunatic” along with being called a nutjob, crazy. Because being non-confrontational is what’s best riiight? Wrong.[/quote]
It shocks me at how many kids will call CPS on their parents when they want to get back at them. Some children today are so savvy about the system. How does this happen?
[/quote]
Not beating the children enough. Twenty-three minutes before CPS gets there, make good use of it. Your kids are going to be taken away anyway.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
But really, I work with a lot of gay guys, some are flaming so much it hurts my eyes, but this is the extent of unmanliness I see.
[/quote]
There was a study done awhile back on rates of ‘domestic violence’ and found that male homosexual domestic violence occurred at higher rates than for women in heterosexual relationships and much higher than men in hetero relationships. Something to the effect of 30% (male homo), 20% (hetero women), and <10% (hetero men)[/quote]
I’m not surprised - how many times have you gotten into an agrument with your girl and just wish you could fight it out? I also bet more fights occur between 2 brothers than a brother and a sister for similar reasons.
This probably doesn’t have anything to do with the thread, it just made me think of my sister and I. Her and my brother are twins, but they don’t look or act anything alike. It’s really strange, but my sister and I look a lot like each other but we are almost polar opposites of each other. People mistake us for twins all the time.
Anyway, she is very aggressive, competitive and had been the more dominant person in all her relationships. All of her past boyfriends would whine to me about how mean she is to them and shit. I watched her hit her boyfriends, call them faggots, bitches, pussies, etc… even make one of them cry. And GOD help you if you piss her off. I honestly don’t know why anyone would put up with it. These are guys I wouldn’t classify as “pussies” either, a few of them were in prison. She’s even been in bar fights with drunk veteranos. She’s scary to be around sometimes. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid her wrath over the years, she’s just never raised up on me like that.
With me, I tend to be more passive in relationships. Not very assertive, and this has led to women walking all over me. I avoid confrontations and needless competition. I am very slow to anger. I’ve never been in a real fight. I know that makes me a huge pussy/faggot/ghey/bitch in the eyes of everyone here, but I certainly don’t think I am.
We are just so different, but a lot alike.
Anyway, I think there’s a lot more to it than that, perhaps it’s also genetic and shit. I dont’ know. This thread just reminded me of that.
My sister and my brother would get in fist fights ALL the time growing up, but I can count on my hand the number of fights I’ve gotten in with my brother. They even fought AT school in front of everyone, just punching each other in the face. My brother and I have only been in a couple fights, and they weren’t even that serious. I’ve never fought with my sister. I threw a spatula at her once though.
Maybe it’s all how you were raised, just looking back on everything now we seemed like such an unusual family anyway.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I’d say that there are no “real people” left. Maybe its just me but I value "freaks"to me, that says you trul dont give a fuck…not much else states “alpha” than that.[/quote]
Exactly.
If you really want to be a non-conformist, you have to look like us, think like us, and listen to the same music we do.[/quote]
That’s not what I meant. lol
I mean most things that have come about that benefit humanity come from rogues.
you’re adorable.