Again, no. More is NOT always better, and doing an additional 15 reps on a weight you just failed on doesn’t seem productive. And it won’t “guarantee” that you’ll get it next time. Why are you so attached to this rep?
What @Yogi1 and others are saying is INSTEAD of working at that SAME weight, you think back off the weight and focus on volume. So, not more sets of 5-6, more like back the weight off and go for sets of 12-15 or something.
because it’s fucking laughing in his face! He missed it and now he’s its bitch! He must punish his weakness with 15 MORE REPS
Chins and deadlifts do not have the same affect in your recovery imo though
With all due respect though,whenever I hear ‘‘punish,earn the right’’ ect I know something retarded is gonna follow.Honestly you cannot punish your body harder than it can punish you.If you’re constantly missing reps check your programming
That sounds like a modified extended set with longer rest periods. The point that everyone is making here is more is not always better. If you didn’t get that planned last rep or whatever, doing an additional amount of work won’t necessarily mean you’re getting better or stronger. I mean, if you’re gonna do 4 more sets of 3, why not 5 sets? Why not 6, or 10, or 32? Surely, 32 additional sets would be better than 4 right?
Also agree with @stronkfak that chins are different than a compound movement. I think your method would be far too taxing on the CNS.
I get what you’re going for but in my opinion this seems like a very stubborn way to go about things. There are plenty of other methods to increase strength.
I mean, THIS guy isn’t missing reps!
I guess what it all boils down to is what do you do when you fail to progress using a reverse linear periodization framework?
Reverse linear periodization is my favourite type because it’s so brutally simple: pick a weight and keep it the same for MONTHS. Get more and more reps with it each week. But what happens when you stop being able to get more reps - yet you still want to remain in that reverse linear periodization framework (so changing the weight is not an option)?
Do you decrease total sets and add more reps to the first couple of sets?
Do you increase total sets and reduce the reps in each of those sets?
Do you simply rest longer between sets?
And you have people calling conjugate complicated
You can only increase rest periods,total sets ect so much.There’ll come a point where you’ll just have to reset the weight or change the exercise
But seriously,give conjugate a though.It’s way simpler than that
IMO, missing ONE REP does not constitute as “failing.”
If you’re doing the same weight for MONTHS you’re not really forcing your body to adapt in any way, you’re certainly going to take a hell of a lot longer to get stronger than you would if you CHANGED something.
Again, there are MANY methods of getting stronger, and they’ll almost all work for at least a little while. Here’s an example of something I did recently, simple and effective. I wanted to increase weight in my seated DB shoulder presses, I was doing typically 55lbs dumbbells for sets of 10-12 reps. So, for about 8 weeks instead of starting with 4 sets of 10-12 reps, I did 5x5, starting with 60’s for the first two weeks. By week three I was feeling stronger, and on my 4th and 5th sets would increase weight to 65’s. Next time I would go to 65’s on the 2nd or 3rd set. So following that scheme over the course of 8 weeks I was able to press 70lb dumbbells for all 5x5, sometimes up to 75lb for the last couple sets. Then when I went back to sets of 10-12, now I can always do 60’s and usually 65’s for at least 2 out of 4 sets. I guarantee you if I just kept pressing the same 55lb dumbbells, I’d still be pressing 55lb dumbbells.
Why wouldn’t changing weight be an option? Again this just seems stubborn to me.
For me, linear periodization is too complicated.
I add weight, but I’m ALLOWED to drop reps as the weight increases. So how do I know how many reps I’m allowed to drop as the weight increases? How do I measure even how much weight to increase by week-to-week? How do I manage intensity of effort (the RPE scale) during the whole thing?
But bottomline is: how do I know if I’m actually getting stronger, or if I’m exactly the same strength but just able to handle the heavier weight because I’m lifting it fewer times?
Reverse linear is so brutally simple, because I either am able to lift weight x more times, therefore I’m stronger, or I’m NOT able to lift weight x more times, therefore I’m NOT stronger.
You ever consider 5/3/1? You use different weight yet it spells it all out for you.
Dude I get what you’re saying. Yes this is “simple” in nature but that doesn’t mean it’s the best approach.
I don’t know what to tell you then. You’re making it too complicated. It’s really not very complicated and doesn’t require a plan with fancy bells and whistles. Just use your head and think logically. Increase weight and lower reps for a while, then come back to what you were doing. Or, lower weight and increase reps for a while, then come back to what you were doing. That’s not very complicated.
If you’re not willing to do ANYTHING else other than what you want to do, why are you asking for advice or expecting different results? If you want to get stronger MORE than you want to stick to the one method you’re attached to, you’ll do the work and research necessary to get the results you want and change things up. I can guarantee you that anyone who has ever accomplished a serious goal, training related or not, didn’t do it with a mentality of, “I’ll stick to the simple stuff.”
Dude you are making this way too complicated, truly. These “How do I ‘x’” questions are what is holding you back. YOU decide these things. There’s no golden rule that if you increase weight by ;x; percentage you must then do ‘x’ amount of reps. And there are certainly, literally thousands of articles you could read on T-Nation clearly explaining various methods. Intensity of effort? Work out with intensity and give your best effort every time, problem solved.
Getting stronger takes TIME, you are absolutely way too attached to the weight in your hands. If I squat 275x10 for 3 sets yesterday, and next week I squat 275x10 for 2 sets, but miss “one rep” on the third set, am I “weaker?” Hell no I’m not weaker, I didn’t lose muscle mass or strength. For SOME reason, I didn’t get that rep, and it probably isn’t “strength” related. Maybe I didn’t sleep as well the previous night, maybe I should have warmed up more or waited another minute. Who gives a crap? It’s one rep. If I want to increase my squat for 10 reps though, I can tell you the LAST thing I’m gonna do is keep squatting 275x10 forever until the weight goes up.
So let’s say I squat 275x10 for 3 sets. Ok now I’ll do 315x5 for 4 sets. So does that mean I’m the same strength?! The weight went up, but reps went down, how do I know I’m stronger?! Who gives a damn?! I have to do something different! So I’ll do 4 sets of 5 for a month or so, and chances are over the course of the month I’ll be able to add a little weight to the bar. Eventually I’ll go back to 3 sets of 10, and chances are I’ll be able to do more than 275. NOW I know I’ve improved my strength.
You are overthinking this way too much and your training can be more auto-regulated and instinctual.
@robstein , thanks for the suggestions. Initially, I was willing to change up everything EXCEPT the weight for the lift - because I really like the simplicity of the reverse linear periodization model. If nothing else works, I am willing to change the weight (and thus the rep range), but I ideally want to find some suggestion that works for hitting more reps at the same weight.
@T3hPwnisher, yes I considered using 5/3/1 - but the only issue is that it’s such low reps. I could potentially use it for weighted chin ups, but for all my higher-rep stuff I am looking for a long-term progression model (including what to do if progress stagnates). In the 5/3/1 book, Wendler doesn’t actually offer a progression model for high rep stuff, he simply says “do it”. Am also not sure if it’s wise to go for 1RM on chin-ups, or if risk of injury is too great. Wendler doesn’t deem weighted chin-ups important enough an exercise to use 5/3/1 progression model on it.
Wait, you want a progression model for assistance work?
“Assistance work” is only really an applicable term if you’re a powerlifter (which I’m not). Weighted chin ups are one of my main upper body lifts.
I am a strongman and I use the term assistance work.
I think the main issue is that your training has no structure. You are trying to get stronger at every single movement you do, which is a surefire recipe to make zero progress. Some lifts get stronger, while some lifts get those lifts stronger. It all should work together.
If you pick 3-4 movements to focus on getting stronger, and then base the rest of your training around doing the things that make that lift stronger, I think the majority of your confusion will go away.
OK, well, weighted chin ups could be considered my main upper body pulling movement then. To assist it I do seated cable rows and rear delt rows (although I am actively trying to get stronger at seated cable rows too, but not as much of a priority as the weighted chins).
That’s exactly what I am talking about.
Sort out your goals first and then your training plan will follow. Trying to do it backwards will just lead to stagnation.
Um …you really dont seem to grasp 5/3/1 do you ?