Psychopathic Features and Fighters

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 12:05pm

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

You dont have to be a shrink to see that there is something wrong with this individual compared to normal person.

1.Juvenal deliquency=stealing,streetfighting
2.convicted of rape
3.innate high levels of aggressivenes
4.chaotic lifestyle (another psychopathic trait)
5.self-centeredness/narcisistic traits
…

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 12:09pm

[quote]lucidfuel wrote:
I hate posts like these, im sorry.

This is why when i walk into the office after heavy sparring or rolling, i need to tell everybody i got bruises from snow boarding!!!

This creates a ridiculous stereotype for people who train and fight. Personally, i do know guys who are a young age who were in trouble. I know i was, but we fight and we grew up. Martial arts isnt about being people up. Listen to Tyson’s lecture on TUF to GSP’s team.

For every chris lebon, bj penn, diaz and kimbo slice you name who are mma fighters with wrap sheets, ill name two fighters who are great people and are NOTHING like those things on your list.

Guys who are top of their sports who never got in trouble and nothing like those descriptions?

GSP
Fedor
Anderson Silva
Shogun
Frankie edgar
Fitch
Kos
Swick
Rich Franklin

…and theres a shit load more.

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

So in a nutshell… what Devildog_ jim said![/quote]

I am not saying these champions are psychopaths.What I am saying is that their personality may contain low empathy,recklessness,high sensation seeking,high pain tolerance,fondness of chaos & living on the edge,…and other traits that dominate in psychopathic personality.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 12:11pm

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
Psychopathic features

-aggressive narcissism
-egocentricity,selfishness
-manipulativeness,cunning
-pathological lying
-calloussnes,lack of empathy
-irresponsibility
-lack of remorse/guilt
-superficial charm,glib
-grandiose sese of self worth
-need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
-poor behavioural control
-impulsiveness
-early behavioural problems
-many short-term relationships
-criminal versatility
-juvenal deliquency
-promiscous sexual behaviour
-parasitic lifestyle

[/quote]

All trolling aside, if these are legitimate attributes then I’m scoring a 10.0 on the psychopath scale.[/quote]

This is not psychopathy checklist.
Check out the Hare s Psychopathy Check List-Revised.Its a standard psychiatric tool.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 12:15pm

[quote]hansneggs wrote:
I reckon their personality is the result of the sport. Similarly to bodybuilding so much dedication is put in around the clock and eventually it becomes a part of you. environment influences behavior greatly.[/quote]

Bullshit! Wanderlei Silva,Rampage jackson,Bj Penn,…this people climbed to the top because of their innate personality traits.

Average Joe doesnt have balls to step into the cage.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 12:19pm

[quote]lucidfuel wrote:

… uh… how about you actually join a club and train. After you meet a couple world champions, actually meet their kids, families, girl friends and parents, think about it and then actually make an opinion.

[/quote]

Somehow I doubt that knowledge on the quite complex subject of psychopathy and being aquintance of a few world champions realized in you.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:02pm

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Most top tier fighter’s possess a psychopathic desire to be the best. Just like any good athlete.[/quote]

My post is about fighters in general.

MMA,boxers,Muay Thai,Judokas,streetfighters,bare knuckle fighters,…

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:04pm

[quote]SuperAlienFreak wrote:
Do you think retarded OPs like this possess a heavy dose of brain damage?[/quote]

Your online name & style of posting say it all.

devildog_jim · October 20, 2010, 1:04pm

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

You dont have to be a shrink to see that there is something wrong with this individual compared to normal person.

1.Juvenal deliquency=stealing,streetfighting
2.convicted of rape
3.innate high levels of aggressivenes
4.chaotic lifestyle (another psychopathic trait)
5.self-centeredness/narcisistic traits
…
[/quote]

But you DO need to sit down and actually talk with people to figure out if any of the traits you perceive are real, and also not the result of substance abuse.

Streetfighting, aggression, chaotic lifestyle, and self-centeredness are traits present in roughly 65% of the Marines and (leaving out the street fights) 80% of the successful business people I know. These observable traits do not, in and of themselves, lead to anything remotely approaching a clinical diagnosis of psychopathy.

I’m going to go out on a limb, and say you’ve never spoken to the people you’re diagnosing, let alone conducted the requisite clinical interviews required to determine their actual mindset and personality traits. You’re just making a pseudo-psychiatric diagnosis of all members of a profession, based on what you see on TUF and pre-fight commercials. When you start mistaking marketing for reality, maybe YOU are the one who needs to visit a shrink.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:06pm

[quote]rundymc wrote:
Nope. Most MMA fighters I know of are pretty mild-mannered. When you reach the top of the sport after some adversity, you quickly shed any tough-guy syndrome you may have. Tyson was the same, watch his last documentary. He would fear his opponent throughout his training camp and dug up confidence from himself as the fight approached.[/quote]

I am talking about fighters in general,not about well-paid athletes who keep oportunistic media profile.

Beatnik · October 20, 2010, 1:19pm

What a break through, mma as a definitive tool for diagnosing psychopaths! “You like ufc? check, have you like… lied to people? check… ok clearly you’ve got a anti-social disorder!” Next up, organic chemistry for diagnosing aspergers…

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:20pm

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

You dont have to be a shrink to see that there is something wrong with this individual compared to normal person.

1.Juvenal deliquency=stealing,streetfighting
2.convicted of rape
3.innate high levels of aggressivenes
4.chaotic lifestyle (another psychopathic trait)
5.self-centeredness/narcisistic traits
…
[/quote]

But you DO need to sit down and actually talk with people to figure out if any of the traits you perceive are real, and also not the result of substance abuse.

Streetfighting, aggression, chaotic lifestyle, and self-centeredness are traits present in roughly 65% of the Marines and (leaving out the street fights) 80% of the successful business people I know. These observable traits do not, in and of themselves, lead to anything remotely approaching a clinical diagnosis of psychopathy.

I’m going to go out on a limb, and say you’ve never spoken to the people you’re diagnosing, let alone conducted the requisite clinical interviews required to determine their actual mindset and personality traits. You’re just making a pseudo-psychiatric diagnosis of all members of a profession, based on what you see on TUF and pre-fight commercials. When you start mistaking marketing for reality, maybe YOU are the one who needs to visit a shrink.[/quote]

Man,relax! This is just a thread and I dont claim anything.
I am curious and thats why I want to know that others observe & think.This forum seems like a right place to ask.
of all people I know well,grew up with,trained sports,met only minority are those who can & will fight.Those are the one I call fighters.
They all share some characteristic & habits that are also characteristic of psychopathic individuals.
For example,they are more reckless than normal people=reckless speeding,abuse of drugs &alcohol,they are narcistic,like to be centar of attention,are impulsive,aggressive,manipulative,etc.
Thats my personal observation.I am not a shrink.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:24pm

[quote]Beatnik wrote:
What a break through, mma as a definitive tool for diagnosing psychopaths! “You like ufc? check, have you like… lied to people? check… ok clearly you’ve got a anti-social disorder!” Next up, organic chemistry for diagnosing aspergers…[/quote]

I am not claiming MMA fighters are psychopaths.

The question is = Do personality differences between normal men and fighters (streetfightrs,combat athletes) can something to do with levels of psychopathy disorder withing each individual?

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:28pm

Look at the clip about OJ Simpson

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 1:43pm

Lenny McLean,the hardest man in Britain

cycobushmaster · October 20, 2010, 1:49pm

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

You dont have to be a shrink to see that there is something wrong with this individual compared to normal person.

1.Juvenal deliquency=stealing,streetfighting
2.convicted of rape
3.innate high levels of aggressivenes
4.chaotic lifestyle (another psychopathic trait)
5.self-centeredness/narcisistic traits
…
[/quote]

But you DO need to sit down and actually talk with people to figure out if any of the traits you perceive are real, and also not the result of substance abuse.

Streetfighting, aggression, chaotic lifestyle, and self-centeredness are traits present in roughly 65% of the Marines and (leaving out the street fights) 80% of the successful business people I know. These observable traits do not, in and of themselves, lead to anything remotely approaching a clinical diagnosis of psychopathy.

I’m going to go out on a limb, and say you’ve never spoken to the people you’re diagnosing, let alone conducted the requisite clinical interviews required to determine their actual mindset and personality traits. You’re just making a pseudo-psychiatric diagnosis of all members of a profession, based on what you see on TUF and pre-fight commercials. When you start mistaking marketing for reality, maybe YOU are the one who needs to visit a shrink.[/quote]

i was just gonna mention how most soldiers/Marines are very similar to fighters…

anyway, most champions of any sport have those traits, as well as those that excell in many other arenas, such as business, acting, etc…

jj_dude · October 20, 2010, 2:35pm

[quote]grayman19 wrote:
JJ, did you just threadjack a dude to pimp out your own thread? What a dick move

I think this is a load of bollocks. The worst trait most top fighters possess is the obsession with being the best, and out training everyone else. Sort of like what most people on this site possess; the desire to be the biggest, strongest, and fastest guy with the biggest testicles in the room. Whats wrong with that?[/quote]

Now here I was just giving in to my psychotic/narcissistic tendencies. It’s all about me thread, you got that? :o)

Actually the clip I pointed too was extremely relevant. Did you watch it? An attempted hijacking/extortion went supremely bad and in the end, the hijacker tried to claim temporary insanity. Pretty much everything he did was a calculated move but his defense catered to the popular idea that if you are violent it is because of some mental condition – much what the OP bought into. Note that the courts flatly rejected that and sent him to prison for the rest of his life. And what of the three defenders? They became fighters if unwitting and inefficient ones. Where do they fit in the OPs taxonomy? If I jump you to rob and you beat the crap out of me defending yourself, are you exhibiting any of the traits that the OP gave?

What’s going on is that sports likes to take some of the tactics of being tough and play up to them. Dominance gestures are a very important part of any real life exchange because they allow everyone to sort themselves out without a fight – yup, strutting your stuff and showing whose dick is bigger is aimed at preventing fights, not starting them usually. This gets played up a lot in sports. Misinterpreting that with some therapized spin is really annoying.

– jj

devildog_jim · October 20, 2010, 2:51pm

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I’m glad you’re Tyson’s shrink, and have had extensive clinical sessions with him to determine his real state of mind instead of what may be either the effects of drugs, a stage persona, or inaccurate media hype.
[/quote]

You dont have to be a shrink to see that there is something wrong with this individual compared to normal person.

1.Juvenal deliquency=stealing,streetfighting
2.convicted of rape
3.innate high levels of aggressivenes
4.chaotic lifestyle (another psychopathic trait)
5.self-centeredness/narcisistic traits
…
[/quote]

But you DO need to sit down and actually talk with people to figure out if any of the traits you perceive are real, and also not the result of substance abuse.

Streetfighting, aggression, chaotic lifestyle, and self-centeredness are traits present in roughly 65% of the Marines and (leaving out the street fights) 80% of the successful business people I know. These observable traits do not, in and of themselves, lead to anything remotely approaching a clinical diagnosis of psychopathy.

I’m going to go out on a limb, and say you’ve never spoken to the people you’re diagnosing, let alone conducted the requisite clinical interviews required to determine their actual mindset and personality traits. You’re just making a pseudo-psychiatric diagnosis of all members of a profession, based on what you see on TUF and pre-fight commercials. When you start mistaking marketing for reality, maybe YOU are the one who needs to visit a shrink.[/quote]

Man,relax! This is just a thread and I dont claim anything.
I am curious and thats why I want to know that others observe & think.This forum seems like a right place to ask.
of all people I know well,grew up with,trained sports,met only minority are those who can & will fight.Those are the one I call fighters.
They all share some characteristic & habits that are also characteristic of psychopathic individuals.
For example,they are more reckless than normal people=reckless speeding,abuse of drugs &alcohol,they are narcistic,like to be centar of attention,are impulsive,aggressive,manipulative,etc.
Thats my personal observation.I am not a shrink. [/quote]

Well, you’re getting a huge dose of what some actual fighters think right now. We all think your basic premise is bullshit.

First, your assertion that fighters “speed, abuse drugs and alcohol, are narcissistic, like to be the center of attention, are aggressive, impulsive, and manipulative” is way off base. So even your basic premise that even a large minority of fighters posses these traits is false.

Second, you fail to differentiate between traits you believe that you have observed, and the actual clinical level of the trait as measured by someone who has taken the time to examine a fighter. How do you know if BJ Penn is a narcissist? From his pre-fight commercial? The man gets paid based on how many tickets he sells, what do you think his commercial is going to say? “I’m just going to go out there, fight hard, and do the best I can?” How about “there’s a lot of good fighters in this league, and any one of them could win on a good day if I’m not careful?” No, he’s going to say “I’m going to dominate him and send him back to the hole he crawled out of. He’ll regret the day he fought me for the rest of his life.” He’s going to say that because people like you will buy the tickets, whether or not he thinks that.

Third, finally, and most damning, you presume that the presence of some indicators of mental illness are indicators of the illness itself. That’s like saying someone who flinches away from a black widow spider is arachnopohbic, it completely ignores some of the required elements that separate normal personality traits from illness (in this case, that the fear be unreasonable).

Seriously, buy a clue.

Sveti_Ante · October 20, 2010, 2:51pm

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote: