[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< one day you’ll see that the Catholic Church is the one, holy, apostolic, and catholic Church. You’ll repent and believe. [/quote]I disagree.
[/quote]
Of course, all heretics do. Well, that’s until they repent and believe.
Um…you two going to turn this thread into another one of your bitch sessions?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Um…you two going to turn this thread into another one of your bitch sessions?
[/quote]
Going to? Looks like they already did.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What I believe, even in the details, was the prevailing view of this nation at her founding. [/quote]
My views were the prevailing view of Church when jesus founded the Church, and except for a few exceptions always has been the prevailing views of the Church that was founded by Jesus.
.[/quote]
I think there is a picture of that somewhere.
Anyhow, as far as we can tell Jesus despised Jewish organized religion and ran into them head first on a number of occasions.
I find it very hard to believe that he would have felt anything different for the Catholic Church. [/quote]
The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.
This church is easily the most contemptible church on earth. I am SO GLAD I renounced being a catholic.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organized religion as separating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth. >>>[/quote]You really don’t know a thing about Christianity dude. [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< This church is easily the most contemptible church on earth. I am SO GLAD I renounced being a catholic.[/quote]There are plenty of contemptible churches, plenty of flaming heretical abominoids claiming Christ with no church AND contemptible hypocrites even in good churches. There is also such a thing as true believers in the Catholic church. The gospel of grace is wondrous indeed. Packaging doesn’t always tell the tale. (But many times it does too).
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.
[/quote]
Documentation, please?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Headhunter wrote:The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.[/quote]Documentation, please?[/quote]Why Chris? WHY?!?!?!?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.
[/quote]
Documentation, please?[/quote]
Lives of the Popes by McBrien
"Lives of the Popes is the most thorough, vivid, and fascinating history of the papacy available. Renowned Catholic commentator Richard McBrien offers a fresh, intelligent look at each of the 262 popes, including:
– The Apostle Peter, the first pope, in his singular role as Vicar of Christ
– Formosus, the pope whose corpse was exhumed, dressed in full vestments, and subjected to a mock trial for papal misdeeds
– Boniface, elected pope after having been defrocked twice for immorality.
Order your copy today!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.
[/quote]
Documentation, please?[/quote]
Lives of the Popes by McBrien
"Lives of the Popes is the most thorough, vivid, and fascinating history of the papacy available. Renowned Catholic commentator Richard McBrien offers a fresh, intelligent look at each of the 262 popes, including:
– The Apostle Peter, the first pope, in his singular role as Vicar of Christ
– Formosus, the pope whose corpse was exhumed, dressed in full vestments, and subjected to a mock trial for papal misdeeds
– Boniface, elected pope after having been defrocked twice for immorality.
Order your copy today!
[/quote]
So, you’re not going to provide documentation to your statement, “The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.”
Because, I’m not sure how this book is documentation of your assertion?
P.S. I’m sure everyone could guess why you choose a book by a priest who evidently doesn’t like being a priest, Catholic, or orthodoxy. Or, obviously listening to his bosses. As he hasn’t put out a piece of work that critics haven’t found to be misinforming about the Catholic faith or Catholic history in general.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.
[/quote]
Documentation, please?[/quote]
Lives of the Popes by McBrien
"Lives of the Popes is the most thorough, vivid, and fascinating history of the papacy available. Renowned Catholic commentator Richard McBrien offers a fresh, intelligent look at each of the 262 popes, including:
– The Apostle Peter, the first pope, in his singular role as Vicar of Christ
– Formosus, the pope whose corpse was exhumed, dressed in full vestments, and subjected to a mock trial for papal misdeeds
– Boniface, elected pope after having been defrocked twice for immorality.
Order your copy today!
[/quote]
So, you’re not going to provide documentation to your statement, “The Catholic Church took a preacher’s words, a preacher who denounced organised religion as seperating Man from God, and used a false storyline about said preacher, to gain power and wealth.”
Because, I’m not sure how this book is documentation of your assertion?
P.S. I’m sure everyone could guess why you choose a book by a priest who evidently doesn’t like being a priest, Catholic, or orthodoxy. Or, obviously listening to his bosses. As he hasn’t put out a piece of work that critics haven’t found to be misinforming about the Catholic faith or Catholic history in general.[/quote]
The history of your church is replete with con artists, Vatican banker scams, using whore houses to support medieval dioceses, selling dispensations, on and on.
Any large powerful organisation draws criminals and con artists to it; it draws people who love exerting power over others.
Do you think Jesus was looking to exert power over others?
And so the church becomes not what Jesus wanted but the complete opposite of his teachings.
When priests get out of their new cars and stop taking skiing vacations in Colorado and THEN become humble and poor preachers of Jesus’ true teachings, then they are truly men of god.
(Sidenote: except for one true man of god, every priest I ever met asked me for money. Every one. My wife and I are quite well-off and these ‘vow-of-poverty’ men would be constantly barraging me with ‘requests’. You’d donate and then someone drives up in their new Impala. Fuck them.)
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The history of your church is replete with con artists, Vatican banker scams, using whore houses to support medieval dioceses, selling dispensations, on and on.
Any large powerful organisation draws criminals and con artists to it; it draws people who love exerting power over others.
Do you think Jesus was looking to exert power over others?
And so the church becomes not what Jesus wanted but the complete opposite of his teachings.
When priests get out of their new cars and stop taking skiing vacations in Colorado and THEN become humble and poor preachers of Jesus’ true teachings, then they are truly men of god.[/quote]
I’m not sure how this is the claims above show the following claim below to be true.
If you could please explain how your former claims are proven by your latter claims that would be appreciated.
Most priests don’t have a vow-of-poverty, so I’m not sure why you’d be upset that they would ask you to donate or the fact that you’d be upset about them driving an Impala (it’s not really that expensive, it could have been given to them by a car dealer after all).
Anyway, as you admit you are well off, therefore you have more of a responsibility to support the Church in her needs.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The history of your church is replete with con artists, Vatican banker scams, using whore houses to support medieval dioceses, selling dispensations, on and on.
Any large powerful organisation draws criminals and con artists to it; it draws people who love exerting power over others.
Do you think Jesus was looking to exert power over others?
And so the church becomes not what Jesus wanted but the complete opposite of his teachings.
When priests get out of their new cars and stop taking skiing vacations in Colorado and THEN become humble and poor preachers of Jesus’ true teachings, then they are truly men of god.[/quote]
I’m not sure how this is the claims above show the following claim below to be true.
If you could please explain how your former claims are proven by your latter claims that would be appreciated.
Most priests don’t have a vow-of-poverty, so I’m not sure why you’d be upset that they would ask you to donate or the fact that you’d be upset about them driving an Impala (it’s not really that expensive, it could have been given to them by a car dealer after all).
Anyway, as you admit you are well off, therefore you have more of a responsibility to support the Church in her needs.[/quote]
You want to believe in God? Fine. So why do you believe in men (the catholic church)?
Why let them come between you and God?
Do you think God needs THEM to speak to you? To love you? No, God doesn’t need them nor should you.
You are putting a corrupt and power-mad institution between you and God, by your own choice. Will God condemn you for that? “Chris, you chose to put a barrier between yourself and Me. Why, Chris, why?”
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
You want to believe in God? Fine. So why do you believe in men (the catholic church)?
Why let them come between you and God?
Do you think God needs THEM to speak to you? To love you? No, God doesn’t need them nor should you.
You are putting a corrupt and power-mad institution between you and God, by your own choice. Will God condemn you for that? “Chris, you chose to put a barrier between yourself and Me. Why, Chris, why?”
[/quote]
All the above is a non-sequitor and does not provide documentation or proof of the following claim:
So, do you refuse to provide documentation and proof of your above claim?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
You want to believe in God? Fine. So why do you believe in men (the catholic church)?
Why let them come between you and God?
Do you think God needs THEM to speak to you? To love you? No, God doesn’t need them nor should you.
You are putting a corrupt and power-mad institution between you and God, by your own choice. Will God condemn you for that? “Chris, you chose to put a barrier between yourself and Me. Why, Chris, why?”
[/quote]
All the above is a non-sequitor and does not provide documentation or proof of the following claim:
So, do you refuse to provide documentation and proof of your above claim?[/quote]
You are catholic, no? Are you unfamiliar with history of your church?
Deny these…“The Catholic church wielded political power in Europe for centuries, preaching antisemitism, oppressing knowledge and free thought, oppressing women and waging war. The Church condemned the first printing press, burned at the stake the first man to translate the Bible into English, condemned the smallpox vaccine as a violation of God’s will and opposed anesthesia during child labor because women were to experience pain for Eve’s sin.”
Condell concludes that the Catholic Church had much to do with the holocaust and ensuing Middle East problems and to this day, has not excommunicated its Nazi members, including Adolf Hitler."
http://www.goddiscussion.com/22453/condell-the-evils-of-the-catholic-church/
The church forbade anesthesia during surgery also…man was put here to endure screaming pain while being cut open, finally allowing it in 1957…1957…
“The acceptance of physical pain is only one expression, among many others, of what constitutes the essential: the desire to love God and to serve him in all things. All the quality of the Christian life and its heroism consists above all in the perfection of this voluntary disposition.” Pope Pius XII
Why do you still put such beings between you and the Master? are you afraid of the Master???
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deny these…[/quote]
I do, because as the beautiful Hitchens says, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” This is the case here, you have yet to provide one ounce of evidence, fact, or documentation to your outlandish claim against the Church. Not only are these claims again…non-sequitor’s…BUT, do not prove the following:
They do not follow! Non Sequitor!
You provide no documentation to prove your other claims. So, yes. I do ‘deny’ these. However, the following…
[quote]“The Catholic church wielded political power in Europe for centuries, preaching antisemitism, oppressing knowledge and free thought, oppressing women and waging war. The Church condemned the first printing press, burned at the stake the first man to translate the Bible into English, condemned the smallpox vaccine as a violation of God’s will and opposed anesthesia during child labor because women were to experience pain for Eve’s sin.”
Condell concludes that the Catholic Church had much to do with the holocaust and ensuing Middle East problems and to this day, has not excommunicated its Nazi members, including Adolf Hitler."
http://www.goddiscussion.com/22453/condell-the-evils-of-the-catholic-church/
The church forbade anesthesia during surgery also…man was put here to endure screaming pain while being cut open, finally allowing it in 1957…1957…
“The acceptance of physical pain is only one expression, among many others, of what constitutes the essential: the desire to love God and to serve him in all things. All the quality of the Christian life and its heroism consists above all in the perfection of this voluntary disposition.” Pope Pius XII
Why do you still put such beings between you and the Master? are you afraid of the Master???[/quote]
…are not even backed up by creditable documented sources. The first link is to a comedian…the second is to a speech by Pope Pius XII and shows no evidence for the other half of your claims. So, now you’ve filled up five posts with claims and no documentation to back up five sets of claims…thought you were supposed to be a professor. You’d fail an English 101 course in high school. But, I digress.
How does any of your claims have to do with proving this statement:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Deny these…[/quote]
I do, because as the beautiful Hitchens says, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” This is the case here, you have yet to provide one ounce of evidence, fact, or documentation to your outlandish claim against the Church. Not only are these claims again…non-sequitor’s…BUT, do not prove the following:
They do not follow! Non Sequitor!
You provide no documentation to prove your other claims. So, yes. I do ‘deny’ these. However, the following…
[quote]“The Catholic church wielded political power in Europe for centuries, preaching antisemitism, oppressing knowledge and free thought, oppressing women and waging war. The Church condemned the first printing press, burned at the stake the first man to translate the Bible into English, condemned the smallpox vaccine as a violation of God’s will and opposed anesthesia during child labor because women were to experience pain for Eve’s sin.”
Condell concludes that the Catholic Church had much to do with the holocaust and ensuing Middle East problems and to this day, has not excommunicated its Nazi members, including Adolf Hitler."
http://www.goddiscussion.com/22453/condell-the-evils-of-the-catholic-church/
The church forbade anesthesia during surgery also…man was put here to endure screaming pain while being cut open, finally allowing it in 1957…1957…
“The acceptance of physical pain is only one expression, among many others, of what constitutes the essential: the desire to love God and to serve him in all things. All the quality of the Christian life and its heroism consists above all in the perfection of this voluntary disposition.” Pope Pius XII
Why do you still put such beings between you and the Master? are you afraid of the Master???[/quote]
…are not even backed up by creditable documented sources. The first link is to a comedian…the second is to a speech by Pope Pius XII and shows no evidence for the other half of your claims. So, now you’ve filled up five posts with claims and no documentation to back up five sets of claims…thought you were supposed to be a professor. You’d fail an English 101 course in high school. But, I digress.
How does any of your claims have to do with proving this statement:
[/quote]
What would you accept as a credible source for historical facts? And then, there are those history books.
But it is just as I thought – you want to worship an organisation created by MEN and not worship God. You bow to Rome but not to God himself.
At the end times, the Master will return and you will have to explain yourself before him. Since you chose to worship a manmade and corrupt money loving den of iniquity, my guess is that you will NOT be forgiven.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
What would you accept as a credible source for historical facts? And then, there are those history books.[/quote]
Yes, you might want to start with an academic history journal or book, something real academics submit articles and chapters to in order to further the area of study they work in and that is edited and reviewed by known authorities in that area. As one of academia I’m sure you know this and have submitted articles to further your area of study.
[quote]But it is just as I thought – you want to worship an organisation created by MEN and not worship God. You bow to Rome but not to God himself.
At the end times, the Master will return and you will have to explain yourself before him. Since you chose to worship a manmade and corrupt money loving den of iniquity, my guess is that you will NOT be forgiven.
[/quote]
Ah, yes…trolldom. Must be fun living there with Ayn Rand. Actually Ayn Rand would probably provide documentation to prove her point even if she came up with a completely useless philosophy.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
What would you accept as a credible source for historical facts? And then, there are those history books.[/quote]
Yes, you might want to start with an academic history journal or book, something real academics submit articles and chapters to in order to further the area of study they work in and that is edited and reviewed by known authorities in that area. As one of academia I’m sure you know this and have submitted articles to further your area of study.
[quote]But it is just as I thought – you want to worship an organisation created by MEN and not worship God. You bow to Rome but not to God himself.
At the end times, the Master will return and you will have to explain yourself before him. Since you chose to worship a manmade and corrupt money loving den of iniquity, my guess is that you will NOT be forgiven.
[/quote]
Ah, yes…trolldom. Must be fun living there with Ayn Rand. Actually Ayn Rand would probably provide documentation to prove her point even if she came up with a completely useless philosophy. [/quote]
Worship Rome…or worship God…your choice.
Choose wisely, Grasshopper. The fate of your immortal soul is at stake.
The beginning of all wisdom is fear of the Lord.
All ye who worship false and manmade organisations (idols) shall have to answer to the Master.
Beware the day…ye have been warned…his judgment cometh and that right soon…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< my guess is that you will NOT be forgiven. >>>[/quote]Your guess is just as useless as every other loud mouth pagan who knows nothing about Christianity. You may be well off. You may be “charitable”. You may be man of letters and a classroom teacher, but you are also a coward. You will not debate a now unemployed practically homeless 10th grade dropout on the subject of the foundation of human thought, knowledge and logic because you know that said 10th grade dropout, who is also an ultra fundamentalist, young earth, bible believing Jesus freak will beat you like a dog from one end of this website to the other. Not because he’s a thousand times more brilliant than you are. But because your life is a lie. Don’t embarrass yourself with one more keystroke giggling about what you think you know about the gospel until you’re ready to talk about HOW you think you know anything at all.