According to wiki: Prolactin is upregulated by estrogen. Thats about the only link between the two I could find. The tren prolactin link remains unknown.
[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
judgeroybean wrote:
I’ve got some studying to do on this one!!
IF someone can figure out the connection between progesterone and prolactin, I would certainly feel much better.
x2…
also, maybe I’m retared and we already figured this out, but how does prolactin cause gyno? If one of the links has said how please just point me to it 
lol
Gerdy[/quote]
Here’s my theory:
Excess estrogen contributes to the onset of gyno. Excess prolactin can cause the male boobs to lactate - lactation/prolactin. Lower the estrogen, and you control the prolactin related gyno.
But in the midst of this is some interaction between prolactin and progesterone. And that is where I get lost.
DG: I think the link I gave you discusses it.
It appears through all the info given in this thread that the control of estrogen helps a great deal on combating prolactin induced gyno. This all makes good sense to myself and I too am puzzled at this point to how progesterone and prolactin are related and interact.
But to confuse myself even further are the stories of individuals getting gyno while not on any form of aromatizing steroid. Example an andarol or tren only cycles. I have seen at least the anadrol one first hand in a friend of mine. Does this mean that at least in the anadrol case the gyno comes from a pathway other than progesterone/prolactin interacting with estrogen? Perhaps there is just enough natural estrogen in the system for some type of interaction to occur in highly sensitive individuals?
[quote]2thepain wrote:
It appears through all the info given in this thread that the control of estrogen helps a great deal on combating prolactin induced gyno. This all makes good sense to myself and I too am puzzled at this point to how progesterone and prolactin are related and interact.
But to confuse myself even further are the stories of individuals getting gyno while not on any form of aromatizing steroid. Example an andarol or tren only cycles. I have seen at least the anadrol one first hand in a friend of mine. Does this mean that at least in the anadrol case the gyno comes from a pathway other than progesterone/prolactin interacting with estrogen? Perhaps there is just enough natural estrogen in the system for some type of interaction to occur in highly sensitive individuals?[/quote]
I think this can all be related back to ProfX’s post in the T-Cell about gyno.
I have no proof whatsoever to back this up, other than the anecdotal comments of hundreds upon hundreds of steroid users over the last several years, but I think being genetically predisposed to gyno is much more a factor than what steroids you take.
How many people have posted in this very forum that they never took AI’s and never had a problem with a cycle - even at higher (750mg+/week) doses?
How many people have posted saying they got gyno from low doses, or even non-aromatizing compounds?
I’d rather be safe than sorry for sure, but to me it looks like God has a bigger play in getting gyno than steroids.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
2thepain wrote:
It appears through all the info given in this thread that the control of estrogen helps a great deal on combating prolactin induced gyno. This all makes good sense to myself and I too am puzzled at this point to how progesterone and prolactin are related and interact.
But to confuse myself even further are the stories of individuals getting gyno while not on any form of aromatizing steroid. Example an andarol or tren only cycles. I have seen at least the anadrol one first hand in a friend of mine. Does this mean that at least in the anadrol case the gyno comes from a pathway other than progesterone/prolactin interacting with estrogen? Perhaps there is just enough natural estrogen in the system for some type of interaction to occur in highly sensitive individuals?
I think this can all be related back to ProfX’s post in the T-Cell about gyno.
I have no proof whatsoever to back this up, other than the anecdotal comments of hundreds upon hundreds of steroid users over the last several years, but I think being genetically predisposed to gyno is much more a factor than what steroids you take.
How many people have posted in this very forum that they never took AI’s and never had a problem with a cycle - even at higher (750mg+/week) doses?
How many people have posted saying they got gyno from low doses, or even non-aromatizing compounds?
I’d rather be safe than sorry for sure, but to me it looks like God has a bigger play in getting gyno than steroids.
[/quote]
This appears to be very true from my experiences and interactions as well. All the times when we say everybody is different but plan for the worst, we mean it.
A quick question that kinda pertains to the above topics.
I just read in two seperate articles that said low dose T-3 (25mcg) can be used to lower prolactin levels during a cycle including Nor-19s. Actually both mentioned tren as the drug being used and they were both cutting cycles.
The only problem was that there was no study or link mentioned to back it up.
Has anyone heard of using T-3 for prolactin? If so could you offer up a link or something.
If true it would appear to be a good fit for a cutting cycle, however I’m unsure of what the long term use of T-3 even at low doses would do to your thyroid levels
I googled “prolactin production” to see where prolactin is manufactured (anterior pituitary).
But in doing so, found this link which just adds to my desire to figure out the relationship between prolactin and progesterone.
I googled “prolactin progesterone interaction” and found this. Maybe AS, or someone who understands this shit can interpret for me.
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I googled “prolactin progesterone interaction” and found this. Maybe AS, or someone who understands this shit can interpret for me.
http://www.biolreprod.org/cgi/content/abstract/5/3/262
If I read it right, all it seemed to say was that exo LH (as in HCG for our practical purposes) sometimes reduced proL and proG to a degree, dependant on the time between administration.[/quote]
Thanks. Why does there seem to be some sort of relationship between prolactin, and progesterone? This article isn’t the first time I’ve seen the two connected, but I can’t seem to find anything that states the relationship between the two.
I need to learn how to use google better. This shit is making me even more confused than I was a couple of days ago.
I found this on a thread from a different board. It sounds rather simple, maybe a little too simple. But have a read tell me if you think this guy has a clue.
"Most of you do not understand the action of prolactin in the body and its relationship to progesterone (a hormone that stimulates prolactin release). Anadrol, DECA, FINA, and Tren cause elevated prolactin levels.
None of these drugs aromatize or affect estrogen levels. They do stimulate progesterone release. Increased progesterone will cause an increase of prolactin. Increased estrogen levels can also stimulate increased prolactin levels. Prolactin stimulates the glandular tissue in the male breast. This is what causes the lactation and other gyno-like symptoms.
When a user uses Testsoterone and an anti-e, he keeps his estrogen levels in check, and suffers no estrogenic or prolactin sides. When a user uses DECA, FINA, TREN or Anadrol, he may increase his prolactin levels.
Bromo was a first-generation drug of choice for lowering prolactin levels with BB’ers. The problem with Bromo is proper dosing and the nasty side effects. Then along came Dostinex. It was easier to dose and it had no sides.
Both of these drugs directly inhibit prolactin. Stanozolol or Winstrol also inhibits prolactin, but it does it differently. Winstrol blocks progesterone receptors. By doing so, it inhibits prolactin. While Dostinex is the safest way to control Prolactin, it is the most expensive.
My next choice would be to use low-dose Winstrol (50mg, Mon, Wed, Fri) with my DECA, FINA/Tren, or Anadrol. You know the problems with Winstrol, but if the cycle is eight weeks or less, you will be OK.
Also, I have found that if one keeps his weekly DECA dosing below 400mg weekly that Proalctin doesn’t seem to be a problem. The important thing is to keep prolactin and estrogen under control during one’s cycles."
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I need to learn how to use google better. This shit is making me even more confused than I was a couple of days ago. [/quote]
lol sorry for bringing up the post. jk
I know that what it has shown me is that we do not know everything about steroids and the body’s response to them.
I think we know a great deal, but we essentially conduct a science experiment everytime somebody uses any form of steroids, etc. (Alt. 10iu of GH story)
This just shows me that there is a lot more research to be done, not just research in the act of looking something up, but somewhere in a lab, trying different things to see what the deal is. lol
To add another theory I’d say the bulk of the side effects come from the body trying to bring itself back to homeostasis??? I mean the endocrine system is definitely tricky and all or most hormones play off of each other in terms of action and secretion, etc.
I thank everybody for contributing to the thread. I’m still confused as hell like RJ said lol, but I have a better understanding than before I started the thread.
DG
I’m amazed at the bulk of information but I must admit its quite overwhelming. My take home message so far is: One must control estrogen while on a cycle. Awesome post you guys.
A few points;
- Higher progesterone/progestins increase prolactin.
- Higher estradiol will mildy increase prolactin as well.
- Both prolactin and estradiol may cause gyno.
- Progesterone/Progestins do not directly cause gyno.
- Progesterone decreases the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
- DHT and it’s analogs(Winstrol) act as mild prolactin antagonists.
- Gyno may result from high prolactin and low estradiol and vice versa. Gyno is not totally dependent on just estradiol.
- When combined estradiol and prolactin are synergistic in causing gyno.
- GH increases IGF-1 production which may increase mammary development.
- Some people are more susceptable to differant causes of gyno. Therefore, Cabergoline and/or Arimidex/Aromasin/Letrozole may be needed when using a combination of progestins(Nandrolone, Trenbolone, and Anadrol) and aromaziting steroids(testosterone, and Dianabol).
Edited
Winstrol 50mgs mon-wed-fri???
Would 25mgs 7 days a week hold a more stable blood level there for controling the sides more so than the 50???
Seeing that the winny is such a short acting anabolic???