Consistent 8-10 hours of sleep a day. Diet is relatively dialed in, essentially Vertical Diet with a bit of cheating for surplus. Weight on scale is steadily increasing, currently 203~ lbs.
Feeling slight fatigue throughout the day even with the amount of sleep I’m getting.
Took a week and a half-ish deload due to travel before starting this cycle. Came back and first bench day, I hit an all-time PR of 200x12. Felt great. The next week, I hit 210x9, and it did not feel good. This week, I hit 220x5 and it felt absolutely awful. I hit that number probably 6 months ago. Similar regression, though not as drastic, on my overhead press day. However, I am seeing great gains on my back and legs. This makes me think that I am programming my push days poorly, as I do not work my legs or back very hard at all on push days and I’m seeing results. Whereas I feel weaker and fatigued on my push days.
My 1 rep maxes:
Bench press 260
Overhead press 165
Squat 345
Deadlift 455
Only going to detail This is my programming:
Day 1
Bench 5/3/1
BBB dips 5x10 (these sets feel intense. I never fail 10 reps but the last few reps of the later sets definitely are a grind. I’m being told by a friend that these should feel easier?)
Chin ups 3x8~
Tricep extensions 5x10 (pushing to failure on later sets)
Ab work
Squat 5/3/1
BBB squat 5x10
Seated row 3x8
Lateral raises 2x25
Leg curls or light RDL
Rest
OHP 5/3/1
BBB dips 5x10 (same as bench day)
Chin ups 3x8~
Tricep extensions 5x10 (same as bench day)
Ab work
Deadlift 5/3/1
BBB row 5x10 (not pushing these particularly hard)
Lateral raises 2x25
Lat pulldown, alternating grip 3x8-12 (again, not pushing these crazy hard)
Leg curls or light RDL
Again, only regressing on my push days drastically. My legs and back are progressing great.
Not Jim but…
What are your TMs?
Sorry, just edited the main post to include my maxes.
Thanks.
So im clear, are they 1RMs or the Training Maxes you use to calculate your cycle from?
Bit of of context.
JW says that most people use a 80 to 90% TM, that is, 85% of your 1RM is your training max you use to calculate the cycle weights.
220/260=0.8461…
So if they are your true 1RMs, then your TM should be 220-235 ish. Making your working weights lighter.
Being able to do 5 reps with your TM is about right.
Start light, progress slowly.
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Ah. Those are my 1 rep maxes. So it looks like for sure for my push days, my TMs are too high. Should I leave the volume alone then and only adjust that or is it still too much? This fast of decline of strength is really confusing and demotivating for me.
My guess is keep the volume, drop the TM a bit.
I have always got stronger off doing more pressing volume with a lighter TM - it builds muscle!
Also, traditionally BBB is run with the same movement or a close variant (e.g. SSB squats, close grip bench, etc.), and dips would be an accessory. Not telling you to switch it up totally, but would an option if you’re going to switch TMs anyway.
Check out the layout of this one for a guide: Boring But Big: Beefcake Training
You’ll see the total volume is at least as high as yours, or higher.
you’d be hard pressed to beat running 6 weeks of that exactly as written, then 6 weeks of “Building the Monolith” Building the Monolith - 5/3/1 for Size
If you don’t have it, bookmark it for a Christmas/Birthday present gift to get someone to buy you a hard copy of 531 Forever. If you can convince them to buy you the package with the 531 and edition and 531 forever, even better. All these issues are covered in detail, but it takes about 3 reads for it to start to sink it.
Also, keep up your conditioning, even if it is walking/bike/easy stuff. It makes the volume easier.
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Okay. Going to lower my TMs and also lower the intensity of the BBB sets as per the recommendation of my friend. Hopefully a week off + that and I’ll start seeing some push progress again.
Thank you.
More of the same so far. Weight on scale has gone up. Good sleep. Definitely getting enough protein, probably 150g~ or more a day.
BBB is 40-50% of main lift of the day. Chins and dips are only accessories, 25-50 reps a day.
Day 1 of week 2, 3+ week. Hit 200 for 9 on bench. Which is a weight I hit 12 reps of only a month ago, and a rep count I hit with 210 only a few weeks ago.
Going to ride out the rest of this cycle, not changing a thing. But definitely demotivated, I probably won’t run BBB again. Really not sure what is going wrong as my strength is stagnating and even dropping on most things while my weight is going up.
You’re doing the “hard” PR or “+” sets for your main work. And the “hard” 5 x 10 for your supplemental work.
I believe Wendler advises using the “easier” 5’s Progression for the main work when you’re doing the “harder” supplemental stuff.
If you go hard on one aspect of the program (supplemental) you’re supposed to ease up on something else (main work) so you don’t get run down and tired out.
Ah… I guess I must’ve misread that in 5/3/1 Forever. You really think the issue is still recovery? I want to at least finish out this cycle the way that I’m doing it, I think. Should I relax on the AMRAP sets?
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Well, yeah. I think the problem is that you’re not fully recovering between workouts.
Like your upper body days are so hard you’re not returning to full strength in time for the next workout.
The other explanation is that you’ve found a training style that makes you weaker the longer you do it.
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When I did the BBB Challenge, which you can find on this site, he prescribes minimum reps on your top set. 5’s week, do 5 reps, 3’s week, do 3 and so on. Should leave you nice and fresh for your BBB work, which is the most important part of this program. It’s driven by the volume from the supplemental work, not the intensity of the main work. That’s reserved for your Anchor. BBB is a leader Template. If that doesn’t make sense, check out the section on Leaders and Anchors again in “5/3/1 Forever”.
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