Profiling

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:<<< Correlation is all that is required for what Trib said, not causation.[/quote] The very next sentence he failed to quote was the following: [quote] “I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way.” [/quote] Real poor Doc. Ya jist gotta knock this off already. It’s crap. You’re whole worldview and mind set is beneath your obvious powers. STOP living in servile bondage to being defined by the melanin in your skin. It’s … well… racist.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:<<< How bigoted and haughty of a doctor to assume poor people are automatically criminal.[/quote] Of course they are. ALL poor people are black and they ALL are that way BECAUSE white people did it and make it their life’s mission to see to it that as few black folks as possible live above squalid poverty. A few escapees like Professor X give them nightmares, but their success rate is quite impressive. Furthermore they’ll pass up one thousand white criminals to arrest one black one just so we can have these perverse statistics.

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The report I saw indicated that in NYC there were a little over 26,000 stop and frisk encounters, that resulted in a little over 2,000 arrests, that resulted in just under 1,500 convictions (most of which were for minor drug possession)over a one year period. That doesn’t sound like making the world a safer place to me.

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[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<2. If profiling through statistical analysis is correct, your church should be on every watch list ever created, and several that should be.[/quote] No, my church shouldn’t be. Individuals in it should be though and decry the fact that its’ the case. Honestly I haven’t read this while thread so I don’t know what specifics came up here. I apologize, but it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way.
[/quote]

Your church embodies every marker of statistical analysis necessary to warrant a heavy police presence, and according to your own stats has a very high number of convicted criminals. In fact, it sounds like it is off the charts in some regards.

Therefore, If we are looking at the past to predict the future- Your church ABSOLUTELY should be looked at very closely.

Remember though, I am against statistical analysis to predict behavior. YOU are the one who is for it.

(and sorry in advance if my quote tabs are botched.)

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[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus says:<<<[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<2. If profiling through statistical analysis is correct, your church should be on every watch list ever created, and several that should be.[/quote] No, my church shouldn’t be. Individuals in it should be though and decry the fact that its’ the case. Honestly I haven’t read this while thread so I don’t know what specifics came up here. I apologize, but it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way.
[/quote]

Your church embodies every marker of statistical analysis necessary to warrant a heavy police presence, and according to your own stats has a very high number of convicted criminals. In fact, it sounds like it is off the charts in some regards.

Therefore, If we are looking at the past to predict the future- Your church ABSOLUTELY should be looked at very closely.

Remember though, I am against statistical analysis to predict behavior. YOU are the one who is for it.

(and sorry in advance if my quote tabs are botched.)
[/quote] My white founding pastor has been on the radio for 50 years. He was out with bullets flying and buildings burning down in the middle of the 68 race riots, a white man telling black men about Jesus. EVERYBODY in Detroit, just about, knows Pastor Bogle. My black present senior pastor who was hand picked by pastor Bogle to succeed him, is regularly involved with local government and large urban projects to the poor.

Our church has a spotless city wide reputation for being home to scores of ex junkies, hookers, gangsters and general thugs. The police WATCH us alright. For protection. We wave when they drive by. They know who we are. The benefits of living upright and godly before the world.

I fixed your tags.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus says:<<<[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<2. If profiling through statistical analysis is correct, your church should be on every watch list ever created, and several that should be.[/quote] No, my church shouldn’t be. Individuals in it should be though and decry the fact that its’ the case. Honestly I haven’t read this while thread so I don’t know what specifics came up here. I apologize, but it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way.
[/quote]

Your church embodies every marker of statistical analysis necessary to warrant a heavy police presence, and according to your own stats has a very high number of convicted criminals. In fact, it sounds like it is off the charts in some regards.

Therefore, If we are looking at the past to predict the future- Your church ABSOLUTELY should be looked at very closely.

Remember though, I am against statistical analysis to predict behavior. YOU are the one who is for it.

(and sorry in advance if my quote tabs are botched.)
[/quote] My white founding pastor has been on the radio for 50 years. He was out with bullets flying and buildings burning down in the middle of the 68 race riots, a white man telling black men about Jesus. EVERYBODY in Detroit, just about, knows Pastor Bogle. My black present senior pastor who was hand picked by pastor Bogle to succeed him, is regularly involved with local government and large urban projects to the poor. Our church has a spotless city wide reputation for being home to scores of ex junkies, hookers, gangsters and general thugs. The police WATCH us alright. For protection. We wave when they drive by. They know who we are. The benefits of living upright and godly before the world.

I fixed your tags.
[/quote]
Thanks for that.

Like I said before, That is great work that your church is doing, BUT statistics don’t know that.

See how they fail?

According to recidivism stats, your Sunday mass (or any other for that matter) should involve several knife fights, maybe a couple of shootings and a hand full of overdoses.

But they don’t.

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1st John 3:1-10 (ESV)

[quote]1-See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2-Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3-And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4-Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5-You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6-No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7-Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8-Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9-No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10-By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.[/quote]
They don’t because the above is the case. Where the above is NOT the case, statistical profiling makes all the sense in the world. Those who are unfairly stung by it won’t like it. Nor should they. However the fault lies with the perps who create the stats. Not the officials quite sensibly following them.

And Doc. Don’t be runnin off now. Despite your best efforts, I’m still yer buddy ya know.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

1st John 3:1-10 (ESV)

[quote]1-See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2-Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3-And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4-Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5-You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6-No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7-Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8-Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9-No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10-By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.[/quote]
They don’t because the above is the case. Where the above is NOT the case, statistical profiling makes all the sense in the world. Those who are unfairly stung by it won’t like it. Nor should they. However the fault lies with the perps who create the stats. Not the officials quite sensibly following them.

And Doc. Don’t be runnin off now. Despite your best efforts, I’m still yer buddy ya know.
[/quote]

I don’t run.

What you just wrote implies that you think “belief” equals “less crime”.

I know many felons who pray daily.

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Also, one could easily make the argument that:

Does NOT always apply directly to all of “man’s laws”…but GOD’S laws. It doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible that “Thou shalt not smoketh the plant of the Mary Jane”.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will.
[/quote]

Uh, yeah…bullshit.

My skin color does not determine criminal intent. Socio-economic factors do.

What you wrote is just…well…a racist statement.[/quote]

Correlation is all that is required for what Trib said, not causation.

And no, Socioeconomic factors don’t determine criminal intent. Not to mention race is a “socio” facotr.

How bigoted and haughty of a doctor to assume poor people are automatically criminal.[/quote]

He said ethnicity tells you probably of criminal intent. That is a racist statement. My skin color or race does NOT tell you whether I am more likely to commit a crime.

Also, saying race is a “socio” factor is a little off. Society changes. Your race does not. Skin color does not define characteristics. Culture does.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:And Doc. Don’t be runnin off now. Despite your best efforts, I’m still yer buddy ya know.
[/quote]I don’t run.
What you just wrote implies that you think “belief” equals “less crime”.
I know many felons who pray daily.[/quote] LOOK AT THIS FOLKS!! aside from his penetrating social commentary, Professor X is a bible scholar now too!!! That passage isn’t about mere “belief” Doc. About whatever one fancies divine. It’s about being “born of God” and having His “seed” live in him. That word “seed” in the Greek it was written in is “sperma”. Guess what that is. Yes, literally born of God in His risen Christ. General belief and prayer means nothing whatsoever. And don’t try n steer me off into the weed, I mean weeds. That has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. The bottom line is the black saints in my church in whom dwells the seed of God are potential victims of black people in whom does NOT dwell the seed of God.

Then what about white people in whom does not dwell the seed of God? I’m betting there’s a larger per capita % of them than there are blacks in whom does not dwell the seed of God. Why are their crime rates not as high? Great question and one I’ve answered a dozen times over the last several years. There is also the much larger theological issue of “common grace” which obtains to varying sovereign degrees among the unsaved who more or less utilize God’s principles. It won’t save them, but it does still testify to his truth. In other words, biblical family principles tend to directly correlate with sound society. Most especially IN nations who have claimed the name of the Lord as their own as this one did at her founding. That also explains why we are not and will not get away with what other nations get away with morally. we ARE under judgement. Big topics and though it has nothing to do with intelligence, you’re plenty lost already.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:He said ethnicity tells you probably of criminal intent. That is a racist statement. My skin color or race does NOT tell you whether I am more likely to commit a crime. [/quote][quote]Tiribulus said on this very page above at exactly 1 pm today:<<< I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that [criminality] is NOT a function of African heritage in any way. [/quote] Can you guys believe this? That is the very next sentence after the one he keeps erroneously quoting.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Do you really expect anything less from PX? PX can be cool if you are on his side of the argument, but be an extreme a@@ if you are not. Sometimes he argues just to argue. I would let it go.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LOOK AT THIS FOLKS!! aside from his penetrating social commentary, Professor X is a bible scholar now too!!! [/quote]

Cute. My dad was a preacher. I am no “bible scholar” but I certainly am not new to what is written inside.

[quote]
That passage isn’t about mere “belief” Doc. About whatever one fancies divine. It’s about being “born of God” and having His “seed” live in him. That word “seed” in the Greek it was written in is “sperma”. Guess what that is. Yes, literally born of God in His risen Christ. General belief and prayer means nothing whatsoever. And don’t try n steer me off into the weed, I mean weeds. That has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. The bottom line is the black saints in my church in whom dwells the seed of God are potential victims of black people in whom does NOT dwell the seed of God. [/quote]

I am not degrading what you choose to believe or how you choose to believe it. I am simply saying that one can be “born in God” and have his “seed” live in him…and NOT agree with all of man’s laws.

If I remember correctly, many Christians died in the past for holding fast to what they believed when it did NOT fall in line with “man’s laws”.

[quote]

Then what about white people in whom does not dwell the seed of God? I’m betting there’s a larger per capita % of them than there are blacks in whom does not dwell the seed of God.[/quote]

I am not even sure how to respond to this.

[quote]
Why are their crime rates not as high?[/quote]

You lost me at knowing everyone in which “God’s seed dwells”. Thou shalt not judge comes to mind.

I’m sorry, but you are not one to judge how “lost” I am.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

You wrote this:

I am sorry, but what does this mean if not that ethnicity tells probability of criminal intent?

You wrote that.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
You wrote this:

I a sorry, but what does this mean if not that ethnicity tells probability of criminal intent?

You wrote that.[/quote]
Hers’ the whole statement [quote]it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way. [/quote]
Sorry D, I hadta try one more time.

I DO NOT know your father Doc, but with all due respect one of two things is unavoidably clear. Either he knew the word and did not teach you much (which would be disobedience) OR he taught you alright, but taught you wrong. OR, actually a 3rd possibility is that he taught you Right and you’re in rebellion. One thing is certain. You do NOT know what is in that bible. Here. http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/judge.html This is what the bible actually says about judging to those who study it properly. That’s my own piece so please don’t break it.

As for the rest maybe later. I think I did misunderstand you on one thing, but I’m on my way out the door.

And D, I like ol Doc. He’s one my oldest friends here. First guy I ever got in an argument with waaaay back in the summer of 06. About whether comparable gains could be made in a home gym compared to a commercial one. LOL! He probably doesn’t even remember that now. BTW Doc, just one more thing (strong words from Columbo). I understand now why Rainjack used to tease you like he did even though at the time I was pounding him in PM’s about it.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Hers’ the whole statement
it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way. [/quote]

Once again, this means the same as “ethnicity tells probability of criminal intent”.
You are arguing semantics?

[quote]

I DO NOT know your father Doc, but with all due respect one of two things is unavoidably clear. Either he knew the word and did not teach you much (which would be disobedience) OR he taught you alright, but taught you wrong. OR, actually a 3rd possibility is that he taught you Right and you’re in rebellion. One thing is certain. You do NOT know what is in that bible. Here. http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/judge.html This is what the bible actually says about judging to those who study it properly. That’s my own piece so please don’t break it.[/quote]

Quite a lot of hubris from you and self righteousness considering what you are claiming to be.

I am still not sure what it is you are disagreeing with. You claim the people in your church do not match statistical data…as if your church/belief is the sole reason why…and not that maybe those stats are a little misrepresented also.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You wrote this:

I a sorry, but what does this mean if not that ethnicity tells probability of criminal intent?

You wrote that.[/quote]
Hers’ the whole statement [quote]it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way. [/quote]
Sorry D, I hadta try one more time.

I DO NOT know your father Doc, but with all due respect one of two things is unavoidably clear. Either he knew the word and did not teach you much (which would be disobedience) OR he taught you alright, but taught you wrong. OR, actually a 3rd possibility is that he taught you Right and you’re in rebellion. One thing is certain. You do NOT know what is in that bible. Here. http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/judge.html This is what the bible actually says about judging to those who study it properly. That’s my own piece so please don’t break it.

As for the rest maybe later. I think I did misunderstand you on one thing, but I’m on my way out the door.

And D, I like ol Doc. He’s one my oldest friends here. First guy I ever got in an argument with waaaay back in the summer of 06. About whether comparable gains could be made in a home gym compared to a commercial one. LOL! He probably doesn’t even remember that now. BTW Doc, just one more thing (strong words from Columbo). I understand now why Rainjack used to tease you like he did even though at the time I was pounding him in PM’s about it.[/quote]

He doesn’t appear to understand the difference between statistical correlation for the purpose of probability and causation. He is arguing that math is wrong.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

He doesn’t appear to understand the difference between statistical correlation for the purpose of probability and causation. He is arguing that math is wrong.[/quote]

I am actually arguing that the stats are wrong if you are using them to show “crime that is actually committed”. That is NOT what they show. They only show who was caught and prosecuted.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

He doesn’t appear to understand the difference between statistical correlation for the purpose of probability and causation. He is arguing that math is wrong.[/quote]

I am actually arguing that the stats are wrong if you are using them to shown “crime that is actually committed”. That is NOT what they show. They only show who was caught and prosecuted.

[/quote]

By legal definition (because legality is the definition of criminality), in this country dark skin is strongly correlated to higher criminal activity. It’s a statistical fact.

If you disagree with the the legal system determining the legality (criminality) of people, you aren’t talking about criminality. You might me something more along moral lines, but criminality is the subject of discussion.

And if that is what is in contention, your repeated pulling of the race card is BS. Since what is being argued is the definition of criminality and its’ quantification, not personal racial bias.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
in this country dark skin is strongly correlated to higher criminal activity. It’s a statistical fact.
[/quote]

Statistical fact that a “correlation” exists? A “correlation” alone isn’t enough to grant a medical study yet you are using it to defend profiling?

You could make a “correlation” between crime and eating pancakes. What is your point?

[quote]

If you disagree with the the legal system determining the legality (criminality) of people, you aren’t talking about criminality. You might me something more along moral lines, but criminality is the subject of discussion.[/quote]

?? I said our own legal system is FAULTY and sends innocent people to jail. I then proved that with the dna testing.

[quote]
And if that is what is in contention, your repeated pulling of the race card is BS. Since what is being argued is the definition of criminality and its’ quantification, not personal racial bias.[/quote]

? You are saying RACE has a high correlation with crime…as if culture and economic factors are not the cause of crime but SKIN COLOR. No one is pulling a race card but you for saying that.