Profiling

[DBCooper]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Am I decrying the profiling of white serial killers? No.[/quote]

No…but you are also NOT tasking all white people to police those white serial killers as if it is their responsibility.[/quote]

No, only the whites who complain about the profiling of white men.[/quote]

LOL!

Yes, because that happens so much it has become a social issue?

Are you serious with this reply?

If you have a problem with so many minorities being profiled, fine. If you think that the problem of profiling is ANYWHERE close to being comparable to the problem of 1 out of 8 black men being a convicted felon, then there’s no point in arguing with you.[/quote]

What does this even mean?

This doesn’t mean that there aren’t just as many white men who do the same crimes.

You are simply pointing out who got caught.

Bottom line, you tasked BLACK PEOPLE with policing all other BLACK PEOPLE.

That makes no logical sense and you do not hold white people to the same standards…because they don’t have to???

I task blacks who think that the statistics indicating that they are more likely to commit a crime are the result of profiling first and foremost to look at themselves or their culture or each other before blaming this on someone else.

While I certainly would admit that there are more blacks arrested for crimes they did not commit than whites, on a per capita basis, it is beyond ignorant to say that these statistics are the result of blacks being targeted more than whites. Take a look at “black” culture as opposed to “white” culture and you tell me which one is more likely to condone, minimize, rationalize or justify criminal behavior.

Ever seen MTV Cribs? Watch every single episode and keep track of all the Scarface and Michael Corleone posters you see. I guarantee you that about 99% of those posters are found in the homes of minorities. Why is a poster of a fictional criminal who murdered his way to wealth on the wall if not as some form of acceptance of that form of criminality. Throw some hip-hop on the stereo. A HUGE majority of it discusses criminality in one form or another, and mostly to either justify it, describe it in graphic, glorifying terms or both. I don’t hear any “white” music overwhelmingly talk about physically assaulting women the way it is in hip-hop. I don’t hear “white” music overwhelmingly glorify criminal lifestyles or being a hustler. And I certainly don’t see “white” pop culture glorifying the actions of criminals like Tony Montana, Michael Corleone or Frank Lucas. And I definitely don’t see any forms of “gangsta” metal or rock out there. Frank Sinatra hung out with gangsters all the time, but you don’t hear him or any of his cronies from back in the day glorifying the gangster lifestyle the way you do in hip-hop today.

Crimes by whites isn’t the problem it is amongst blacks or other minorities, period. When it gets to the point where 1 in 8 white adult males are felons then you can start criticizing me for the double standard or the non-application of certain logic. But until those circumstances are even remotely similar, don’t come onto a fucking website you aren’t even wanted on and try to equate the two. I don’t even know why you bother with this site, quite frankly. All your arguments are based on childish, ignorant statements and beliefs, such as the erroneous belief that white crime and minority crime in this country are even remotely comparable.

[DBCooper]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME.

[/quote]

Is your contention here that the crime rates amongst different ethnicities are actually much closer to representative levels than they actually are? Are you trying to argue that crime rates amongst minorities are close to being in direct proportion to their representation in the general population?

[SkyzykS]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME. >>>[/quote] You feel that a sampling of millions (and millions) of arrests, convictions and acquittals gives us “no idea” of who is committing crimes? I just wanna make sure I got that straight.
[/quote]

I do. I think that there are many many many people not getting caught not getting arrested, convicted or acquitted. Entire networks and organizations of different nationalities and locale.

Here is just one man. Richard Kuklinski - Wikipedia

Look at the length of his career. The guy was an assassin for 32 years before he became a blip on law enforcement radar- And he was Killing people.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME. >>>[/quote] You feel that a sampling of millions (and millions) of arrests, convictions and acquittals gives us “no idea” of who is committing crimes? I just wanna make sure I got that straight.
[/quote]

I do. I think that there are many many many people not getting caught not getting arrested, convicted or acquitted. Entire networks and organizations of different nationalities and locale.

Here is just one man. Richard Kuklinski - Wikipedia

Look at the length of his career. The guy was an assassin for 32 years before he became a blip on law enforcement radar- And he was Killing people.[/quote]
Do you seriously intend to tell me that the fact that not EVERYbody’s been caught translates into the conclusion that we have therefore NO IDEA who the criminals are from decades of records of tens of millions who have?

The zip code of my very black church in the crime ridden city of Detroit has 100,000 or so people in it. 98% black. Crime is off the charts. The sound of gunfire is not uncommon, especially after an evening service. Dropout rates through the roof. Out of wedlock birthrate is like 88%. Practically everybody is on welfare.

Our church of 1500 members, which is about 95% black, has a non discernible crime rate. I can’t honestly remember the last time somebody was presently in criminal trouble though our pews are full of EX criminals. 98% of our kids graduate high school and of them 80% go to college and the vast majority graduate. We do have an occasional out of wedlock birth and a small % (under 10 I’d accurately guess) of non veterans on some form of public assistance.

What’s the difference? Our people are just as black as the folks on the street. This is a lesson that dear Professor X simply refuses to learn because it shatters his flawed and fractured worldview.

[therajraj]

of you who are believers in these statistics, how many would agree they pass the eyeball test as well?

[zecarlo]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Ever seen MTV Cribs? Watch every single episode and keep track of all the Scarface and Michael Corleone posters you see. I guarantee you that about 99% of those posters are found in the homes of minorities. Why is a poster of a fictional criminal who murdered his way to wealth on the wall if not as some form of acceptance of that form of criminality. [/quote]

Why don’t you rephrase that question like so: Why is a poster of a semi-fictional white criminal who murdered his way to wealth in a film written and directed by white men and critically acclaimed by white critics and made millions of dollars off of white film goers on the wall if not as some form of acceptance of that form of criminality.

White man buys boxed DVD Godfather set which sits prominently on his shelf. Hispanic man buys Michael Corleone poster. Who exactly is accepting what?

If a white person has a John Wayne poster on his wall does that mean he accepts the genocide of the Indians in a positive way?

The irony is that whenever these threads pop up the arguments that are applied to blacks could (and at one time did) apply to the “Corleones” in America. When someone you know (like my uncle) is put into a coma (via tire iron) because of his ethnicity come back and talk about the joys of profiling.

[zecarlo]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
don’t come onto a fucking website you aren’t even wanted on…[/quote]

Because he’s black? Or because he doesn’t agree with you? Either way: grow up. It’s the internet bro, not your personal space.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]therajraj wrote: of you who are believers in these statistics, how many would agree they pass the eyeball test as well?[/quote] Forgive my glaring ignorance, but what this mean? Eyeball test?

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Stop seeing evil white men behind every question, son.

Not ALL of us are out to get you.[/quote]
OHHHHHH YES WE ARE!!!
Waddaya tryin to do? Ruin his life? Do you have any idea what would happen to him if he woke up tomorrow under the terrifying revelation that the professional ethnics in our midst who make a living out of keeping us divided are doing faaaar more to keep real racism alive than all of white America? Good heavens man!!! They’ll probably call me to talk him down.

[therajraj]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote: of you who are believers in these statistics, how many would agree they pass the eyeball test as well?[/quote] Forgive my glaring ignorance, but what this mean? Eyeball test?
[/quote]

Do the statistics mirror what you’ve observed in real life?

Perhaps I’m misusing the term.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote: of you who are believers in these statistics, how many would agree they pass the eyeball test as well?[/quote] Forgive my glaring ignorance, but what this mean? Eyeball test?
[/quote]

Do the statistics mirror what you’ve observed in real life?

Perhaps I’m misusing the term.

[/quote]
Do you mean, does what I observe in our congregation confirm what our easily verifiable/falsifiable statistics report? If so then of course and I’m in a position to know. I am the director of our IT department and as such have ready access to all church records and documents. (Not that I go digging through them all the time). I am also on our apologetics team and am a highly respected lay theologian with like 120 church phone numbers in my phone. I know every officer and every clergy member along with all prominent laity VERY well. Not much goes on that I don’t know about, again, not that I’m prying into everybody’s business. We are family. If that’s not what you mean then please clarify further.

[SkyzykS]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME. >>>[/quote] You feel that a sampling of millions (and millions) of arrests, convictions and acquittals gives us “no idea” of who is committing crimes? I just wanna make sure I got that straight.
[/quote]

I do. I think that there are many many many people not getting caught not getting arrested, convicted or acquitted. Entire networks and organizations of different nationalities and locale.

Here is just one man. Richard Kuklinski - Wikipedia

Look at the length of his career. The guy was an assassin for 32 years before he became a blip on law enforcement radar- And he was Killing people.[/quote]
Do you seriously intend to tell me that the fact that not EVERYbody’s been caught translates into the conclusion that we have therefore NO IDEA who the criminals are from decades of records of tens of millions who have?

The zip code of my very black church in the crime ridden city of Detroit has 100,000 or so people in it. 98% black. Crime is off the charts. The sound of gunfire is not uncommon, especially after an evening service. Dropout rates through the roof. Out of wedlock birthrate is like 88%. Practically everybody is on welfare.

Our church of 1500 members, which is about 95% black, has a non discernible crime rate. I can’t honestly remember the last time somebody was presently in criminal trouble though our pews are full of EX criminals. 98% of our kids graduate high school and of them 80% go to college and the vast majority graduate. We do have an occasional out of wedlock birth and a small % (under 10 I’d accurately guess) of non veterans on some form of public assistance.

What’s the difference? Our people are just as black as the folks on the street. This is a lesson that dear Professor X simply refuses to learn because it shatters his flawed and fractured worldview.[/quote]

Well Tirib, sounds like your church is doing a great job.

That aside, looking at the past and trying to predict the future is the same flawed strategy that wealth and finance managers use to destroy peoples retirements, savings, and in some cases lives- Every 10 years like clockwork.

So why would it work for law enforcement, who are on a shoestring budget compared to financial strategists with access to virtually unlimited monies and technological resources, developed by some of the best and brightest minds in the world?

Looking at statistics and concluding that X is what Y why did does not tell you that Z will do A. To put it another way, it is only telling you who did what, not who is doing what, or who will do what.

The example of your community (at large, not the congregation) is also a prime example to the idea that X, Pitt, and I are putting forth- That socio-economic conditions ARE the major determinant in criminal activity, not color or nationality.

[Tiribulus]

SkyzykS wrote:<<< The example of your community (at large, not the congregation) is also a prime example to the idea that X, Pitt, and I are putting forth- That socio-economic conditions ARE the major determinant in criminal activity, not color or nationality.

So you assume that the people in our church have more money than the people in the hood? That’s the difference? Be careful with that noose young man.

[SkyzykS]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

SkyzykS wrote:<<< The example of your community (at large, not the congregation) is also a prime example to the idea that X, Pitt, and I are putting forth- That socio-economic conditions ARE the major determinant in criminal activity, not color or nationality.

So you assume that the people in our church have more money than the people in the hood? That’s the difference? Be careful with that noose young man.[/quote]

Did you miss the parenthesis? WTF?

You also bring up several other relevant and interesting points.

1. The function of Faith with regard to personal behavior,

2. If profiling through statistical analysis is correct, your church should be on every watch list ever created, and several that should be.

But it isn’t is it? That would be part of the eyeball test RAJ brought up.

Careful with your own noose my man.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME. >>>[/quote] You feel that a sampling of millions (and millions) of arrests, convictions and acquittals gives us “no idea” of who is committing crimes? I just wanna make sure I got that straight.
[/quote]

Yes, that would be what I am saying. I just showed that are one legal system is so flawed hundreds of people are being set free now due to DNA testing…yet you think “arrest records” tell us how much actual crime is being committed?

Arrest records only tell us who is being profiled the most…because guess what, those will be the ones arrested the most.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Unless he is saying that skin color makes one more prone for certain activities like crime, relating skin color to crime rates alone is not looking at the real situation.

It is scape-goating and finger pointing with a racial undertone.[/quote]

I guess I need to say this explicitly, to overcome your ongoing delusions of persecution:

“Unless he is saying…”

I’m not SAYING anything. I asked you a simple question about what you thought were accurate, relative per capita crime rates.

I was merely interested in how you saw the correlation, given some of your statements here.

But you’re so busy being persecuted that you hopped, skipped and jumped to concluding all sorts of hidden points to my question.

Demonstrating, I guess, just how futile discussions about race inevitably are with you.

But, of course I must be vilifing all black people! The facts that I grew up with all black friends in a housing project, maintain many of those friendships today, have a wife who suffers from racism when we’re in the States, and am racially profiled myself on a daily basis have done nothing to shape my views on race in America. How could they? I’m WHITE, for crying outloud!

PS: Read Skyz’s reply again. See, Dorothy, there IS a way to respond without getting all defensive. [/quote]

Your original post:

[quote]I’m curious about something, X.

Do you believe that the (real and accurate) per capita crime rate is higher among blacks than among whites in the US, or that that question is unanswerable?[/quote]

I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME.

You wrote a very long post here about “delusions”. Not sure why. It may be more exciting to read if you stayed on topic.[/quote]

Ha ha ha!

Now that you have finally deigned to answer the question, that will be easy.

Your unwillingness to answer and the “delusions” are intimately related, but the deluded rarely see such things…

Stop seeing evil white men behind every question, son.

Not ALL of us are out to get you.[/quote]

What does any of this have to do with the question you asked?

[Tiribulus]

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

SkyzykS wrote:<<< The example of your community (at large, not the congregation) is also a prime example to the idea that X, Pitt, and I are putting forth- That socio-economic conditions ARE the major determinant in criminal activity, not color or nationality.

So you assume that the people in our church have more money than the people in the hood? That’s the difference? Be careful with that noose young man.[/quote]Did you miss the parenthesis? WTF?[/quote]I do hereby stand most humbly corrected. I misunderstood you. My fault. (I hope you were watchin Doc. ) [quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<1. The function of Faith with regard to personal behavior,[/quote] That’s THE difference.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<2. If profiling through statistical analysis is correct, your church should be on every watch list ever created, and several that should be.[/quote] No, my church shouldn’t be. Individuals in it should be though and decry the fact that its’ the case. Honestly I haven’t read this while thread so I don’t know what specifics came up here. I apologize, but it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will. I am on record here a dozen times declaring my steadfast conviction that this is NOT a function of African heritage in any way.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<But it isn’t is it? That would be part of the eyeball test RAJ brought up.[/quote] People in my church ARE mistakenly detained. They think it like really sucks, but don’t go off yellin about how whitey is after them. First of all because most Detroit cops are black. But even in the burbs they KNOW that people who look like them commit most of the crime. They blame their fellow black folks for creating a reputation that they must unjustly bear.[quote]SkyzykS wrote:<<<Careful with your own noose my man.[/quote] TOUCHE’
I thought you were saying that the difference between the people in my congregation and the people on the street is money. Au contraire. Very many started dirt poor and many still are. The difference is not that our church is doing a great job though she is. The difference is these people have born again from death in sin to life in Christ. They live and raise families according to biblical principles because this is pleasing to their Lord whom they have no problem calling “master” because He is. They love me and I love them because we are all children OF and brethren IN both Adams.

The first according to the flesh and the last according to the Spirit. The image and likeness of God in which we are all created has literally nothing to do with race. Unfair profiling happens all the time. Welcome to the big bad world. Do you have any idea how many times in these very forums I have personally been pronounced a hate mongering monster because of Westboro? Ours is a corrupt sinful world. It will never approach full justice and righteousness in this age.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will.
[/quote]

Uh, yeah…bullshit.

My skin color does not determine criminal intent. Socio-economic factors do.

What you wrote is just…well…a racist statement.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< I think we have no idea what the true CRIME RATES are because you are only looking at who got caught and not WHO IS OUT COMMITTING ALL CRIME. >>>[/quote] You feel that a sampling of millions (and millions) of arrests, convictions and acquittals gives us “no idea” of who is committing crimes? I just wanna make sure I got that straight.
[/quote]Yes, that would be what I am saying. I just showed that are one legal system is so flawed hundreds of people are being set free now due to DNA testing…yet you think “arrest records” tell us how much actual crime is being committed?Arrest records only tell us who is being profiled the most…because guess what, those will be the ones arrested the most.[/quote] Ahhh. Sorry. So then what we’re saying now is that a game changing difference in statistics would be forthcoming if only all these millions of white criminals weren’t being winked at so that millions of black ones could be added to the rolls? That even a few thousand DNA dismissals, ASSUMING that all the true perps were white, changes the stats too? That’s what you’re saying.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will.
[/quote]Uh, yeah…bullshit.
My skin color does not determine criminal intent. Socio-economic factors do.
What you wrote is just…well…a racist statement.[/quote] Can somebody please help our dear friend out here?

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
it IS manifestly clear that, regardless of reason, ethnicity WILL tell you something significant about the statistical probability of an individual’s being involved in criminal activity. Yes it will.
[/quote]

Uh, yeah…bullshit.

My skin color does not determine criminal intent. Socio-economic factors do.

What you wrote is just…well…a racist statement.[/quote]

Correlation is all that is required for what Trib said, not causation.

And no, Socioeconomic factors don’t determine criminal intent. Not to mention race is a “socio” facotr.

How bigoted and haughty of a doctor to assume poor people are automatically criminal.