[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It is the reason why. You cannot possibly comprehend the horrific death defying lives on the streets of this city many of these people have been delivered from by the hands of a merciful mighty God. An unquenchable longing to bring glory and honor to His name in gratitude for His grace motivates them to reject everything you believe.
[/quote]
Wow. Once again, I believe in God as well…but I am not naive enough to believe that your church is the ONLY reason these people defy statistical data.
I find it strange that you even believe that.
? No one attacked your character at all.
You attacked mine by claiming you know how “lost” I am or what my own father taught me. You found no fault of your own in these actions.
You seem extremely self righteous…and I am failing to see the “Godliness” in your responses here.
Once again, people in your church defy statistical data…and you seem to think that is the ONLY reason why. That is strange and it does not explain why you think the data holds fast to everyone OUTSIDE YOUR CHURCH.
No one attacked your character.
I am blatantly questioning the way you think, however.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Here’s the thang. For the purpose of law enforcement it makes no difference what the cause is, as I said. Only that it is the case. Cause cannot be addressed at the level of law enforcement or even legislation. Only the reality of the situation is relevant. I’m not even endorsing any specific profiling scheme as that can go way outta hand too. My only point is that, especially in urban jurisdictions, blacks commit an inordinately large percentage of the crime and to ignore that in the name of some fruity notion of fairness is idiotic and dangerous. Especially to the other blacks who are also a very hefty percentage of the victims.
[/quote]
Once again, how is it “blacks commit more crime” and not “those people in that socio-economic status commit more crime”?
You are looking at SKIN COLOR and saying those people colored that way commit more crime…when it is not SKIN COLOR causing anyone to do anything but lifestyle and environment.
You are literally trying to make it ok for people to judge me as a negative based on NOTHING but my skin color.
Yet you don’t see that as racist?
WTF?
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I agree there is a difference between intentional discrimination and mere “disparate impact”, but where there is obvious disparate impact I think this certainly justifies asking questions and digging a little deeper. X was getting slammed out of hand for suggesting that there might not be a direct correlation between conviction rate and commission rate of crimes or that there aren’t real disparities in the system. Getting data to support or refute this theory is tough for obvious reasons. But drug use is one crime that has been researched enough to where social scientists have a pretty good handle on actual commissions rates to compare to conviction rates. Not exact, no doubt, but there is a lot of data, more so than with other types of crimes. I suspect that’s why HRW focused on this particular type of crime, and the report explains the data it is relying on for you to judge for yourself if it has any validity.
I think the question is complex, but at some point if the stats raise the inference that there are real disparities based on race on commission versus conviction rate, the burden shifts to proponents of the system to show there are good racially neutral or harmless reasons for the disparities, not the other way around. This is just one report, and you make good points, but I think this report raises legitimate questions in my mind about whether there are, in fact, real and substantial inequities in the system based on race that need to be explained before we can safely declare no racial bias. [/quote]
This was a very good post.
[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:
Fuck, what did I do wrong with the quotes?[/quote] I was going to fix that for ya, but I can’t because you changed the content and I would have to guess what you meant which is not my place. [quote]no_name_narrator wrote:<<< I can get onboard with the idea that people with strong character and good morals (regardless of religious affiliation) are less likely to commit crime. But how do we go about promoting that…[/quote] I doubt if you really wanna know my answer to that, but the way you mean it? “We”, ESPECIALLY the state, can’t.
D’s right Doc. We’re not gittin anywhere. I only suggest you reread my remarks and if you didn’t mean to suggest that I may have falsified the stats then I apologize. That’s what it sounded like. Again, you didn’t even glance at my piece on biblical judging did you?
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
P.S.
You are welcome.
[/quote]
Thank you.
[quote]
Targeting Blacks updates our prior report documenting racial disparities among drug
offenders sent to prison. 3
It reveals that drug law enforcement in the United States
continues to produce extraordinarily high and disproportionate rates of black
incarceration, particularly for black men. Based on data on new prison admissions
reported by 34 states to the National Corrections Reporting Program for 2003 (the
most recent available),4
our analysis reveals that:
- African Americans constituted 53.5 percent of all persons who entered prison5
because of a drug conviction;6
- Blacks were 10.1 times more likely than whites to enter prison for drug
offenses;
- A black man was 11.8 times more likely than a white man to enter prison for
drug offenses;
- A black woman was 4.8 times more likely than a white woman to enter prison
for drug offenses;
- Among all African Americans entering prison, almost two out of five (38.2
percent) were convicted of drug offenses, compared to one in four whites
(25.4 percent); and
- Although still dramatic, the racial disparity in the ratio of black to white prison
admission rates for drug offenses in 2003 was in most states less than in
- Nevertheless, because of the increase in the disparity in states with
large populations such as New York and California, the racial disparity across
the 34 states was higher in 2003 than it was in 1996. In 2003, the black
prison admission rate for drug offenses was 10. 1 times that of whites. In 1996,
it was 9.9 times greater. [/quote]
Wow. It is hard to watch people ignore this like it doesn’t matter.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
D’s right Doc. We’re not gittin anywhere. I only suggest you reread my remarks and if you didn’t mean to suggest that I may have falsified the stats then I apologize. That’s what it sounded like. Again, you didn’t even glance at my piece on biblical judging did you?
[/quote]
I don’t have to reread anything. I responded well and efficiently to what you wrote. Your statements in this thread are…enlightening.
They also show many faults you have yourself in your effort to point out the “sins” of all others.
No one said you falsified stats. Maybe YOU should reread what was actually written.
Fine. I didn’t think you’d actually read it anyway, but that’s ok. Like I say. I’ll always be your buddy Doc. You look great btw.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Fine. I didn’t think you’d actually read it anyway, but that’s ok. Like I say. I’ll always be your buddy Doc. You look great btw.[/quote]
No offense, but the “duck and run” tactic after the entrance you made into this thread is strange to say the least.
Not sure if this has been discussed but I don’t necessarily think profiling based on race is that beneficial in preventing a crime, however, it cannot be denied that certain assumptions based on statistics can be drawn after the commission of a crime. For instance while being black doesn’t make you a car thief or being white doesn’t make you a serial killer, if someone steals my car it is a safe bet that the race of the person involved was black, while if someone kidnaps a little boy and puts him in his freezer probably looking for a white man.
All these profiles should be taken with a grain of salt however as a profile actually helped the DC Sniper evade capture because they were looking for a white guy (which would have been the most reasonable guess). It is not a knock against one race or the other, just statistics.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Fine. I didn’t think you’d actually read it anyway, but that’s ok. Like I say. I’ll always be your buddy Doc. You look great btw.[/quote]
No offense, but the “duck and run” tactic after the entrance you made into this thread is strange to say the least.[/quote]
I’m not going anywhere. I’m just outta ways to communicate with YOU. Other people understand which tells me that my communication isn’t the problem. I’m gonna show some of the people in my church this conversation and how you somehow find racism from me in here LOL! You REALLY don’t wanna see that piece on judging in the New Testament do ya?
Because you’ve known me a long time and you know that I am going to make a case that you have no defense for. Then you’ll have to just say you don’t believe the bible and then we’ll be back at your Dad and so on. So fine we’ll leave it alone and you can just keep hurling charges of self righteousness and whatever at me.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed but I don’t necessarily think profiling based on race is that beneficial in preventing a crime, however, it cannot be denied that certain assumptions based on statistics can be drawn after the commission of a crime. For instance while being black doesn’t make you a car thief or being white doesn’t make you a serial killer, if someone steals my car it is a safe bet that the race of the person involved was black, while if someone kidnaps a little boy and puts him in his freezer probably looking for a white man.
[/quote]
Wow. It is assumptions like that which had an entire country looking for a black man when that white mother killed all her kids and claimed a black man stole her car.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Other people understand .
[/quote]
Other people are telling you the same things I am.
It is YOU who is reading things incorrectly and judging others based on nothing but internet site viewings.
You do not seem to be a good representative for your church.
Back to the topic, your congregation isn’t fitting the “stats”…yet you think YOUR CHURCH is the only reason why.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
…do not commit crimes because they have a motivation larger than money that governs them. Voluntarily. The same motivation this country’s founders told us would be necessary for their fledgling nation to survive. We are now ignoring them and we are not surviving. Character-less lowlifes are criminals with or without money. [/quote]
A bit off topic but…
Principles are always abandoned/ignored by leaders long before followers. We certainly have many problems, but it’s important to keep in mind that no bank has ever gone out of business because of the teller errors.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
…do not commit crimes because they have a motivation larger than money that governs them. Voluntarily. The same motivation this country’s founders told us would be necessary for their fledgling nation to survive. We are now ignoring them and we are not surviving. Character-less lowlifes are criminals with or without money. [/quote]
A bit off topic but…
Principles are always abandoned/ignored by leaders long before followers. We certainly have many problems, but it’s important to keep in mind that no bank has ever gone out of business because of the teller errors.
[/quote]
Not to mention that if you asked many criminals…it is NOT money which governs them all but also a sense of “family”…which is why they do what they do for those they care about and even their own gang members.
Other than that, I agree…we live in a country GOVERNED by people who have money as a life goal…yet most of them in charge are not seen as “criminals”.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I DO NOT know your father Doc, but with all due respect one of two things is unavoidably clear. Either he knew the word and did not teach you much (which would be disobedience) OR he taught you alright, but taught you wrong. OR, actually a 3rd possibility is that he taught you Right and you’re in rebellion. One thing is certain. You do NOT know what is in that bible. Here. http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/judge.html This is what the bible actually says about judging to those who study it properly. That’s my own piece so please don’t break it.
[/quote]
The stench of pretentiousness is strong here!
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Forget about the white man. This isn’t about him. This is about crime rates amongst minorities and the reasons, beyond simple racism, that minorities by any statistical measure commit crimes at a far higher rate than whites do. Stop deflecting attention away from that very, very basic fact. Why do you think that this is? Do you think that it is a complete fallacy to argue that there seems to be a much more acceptable, tolerant view of criminal activity amongst minorities?[/quote]
We can’t forget “the white man”. Because “the white man” exists, we can call into question whether profiling has literally warped the perception of who commits all crime since “the white man” governed majority perception during the creation of the entire culture of “the black man” in the US.
Once again, stats on who gets arrested and prosecuted do NOT tell us who is committing crime. It only tells who was looked at and who got caught.
If perception can lead to a country embracing lessening the value of a race, then perception can also influence who gets arrested for crimes based on race.
You can’t ignore this and act like statistics show who is actually committing all crime.
That is a fallacy.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed but I don’t necessarily think profiling based on race is that beneficial in preventing a crime, however, it cannot be denied that certain assumptions based on statistics can be drawn after the commission of a crime. For instance while being black doesn’t make you a car thief or being white doesn’t make you a serial killer, if someone steals my car it is a safe bet that the race of the person involved was black, while if someone kidnaps a little boy and puts him in his freezer probably looking for a white man.
[/quote]
Wow. It is assumptions like that which had an entire country looking for a black man when that white mother killed all her kids and claimed a black man stole her car.[/quote]
In that case they were looking for a black man because she said a black man stole her car. However had they found the car and the children dead in it I guarantee you that they would have been quick to rethink “the black man did it” theory. Also I saw an interview with a profiler in that case that was very suspicious because of her story. The majority of car thefts are opportunistic crimes and not extremely violent, the fact that the children in the car were taken made that less of a believable story because the profile did not fit. Your run of the mill car thief are typically street savvy and not going to intentionally bring down the eat of a kidnapping charge. That story she told actually cast doubt on her because the profile did not fit.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Not sure if this has been discussed but I don’t necessarily think profiling based on race is that beneficial in preventing a crime, however, it cannot be denied that certain assumptions based on statistics can be drawn after the commission of a crime. For instance while being black doesn’t make you a car thief or being white doesn’t make you a serial killer, if someone steals my car it is a safe bet that the race of the person involved was black, while if someone kidnaps a little boy and puts him in his freezer probably looking for a white man.
[/quote]
Wow. It is assumptions like that which had an entire country looking for a black man when that white mother killed all her kids and claimed a black man stole her car.[/quote]
In that case they were looking for a black man because she said a black man stole her car. However had they found the car and the children dead in it I guarantee you that they would have been quick to rethink “the black man did it” theory.[/quote]
While that may be, it doesn’t change the fact that
-
A white women was comfortable in her knowledge of society to KNOW that her plan would work because she said the man was black (even though she said he stole it with kids inside which is something no car thief will do)
-
Days were wasted chasing the fake “black man” even though she drowned the kids herself.
-
Society was further damaged by the divide created by this ruckus since all black people got to see this effect in color.
[quote]
Also I saw an interview with a profiler in that case that was very suspicious because of her story. The majority of car thefts are opportunistic crimes and not extremely violent, the fact that the children in the car were taken made that less of a believable story because the profile did not fit. Your run of the mill car thief are typically street savvy and not going to intentionally bring down the eat of a kidnapping charge. That story she told actually cast doubt on her because the profile did not fit.[/quote]
It worked enough to buy DAYS.
That is how damaging this “stats rush” is.
Now I am not saying that race makes one predisposed to commit certain crimes. The most likely explanation in that regard is most crime is committed by the have nots. A larger percentage of the Hispanic and Black populations in this country fall into the have not category than the white population. So you could say make the case (and a very good on at that), that statistics based on race are simply pointing to economic status as the true indicator.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Now I am not saying that race makes one predisposed to commit certain crimes. The most likely explanation in that regard is most crime is committed by the have nots. A larger percentage of the Hispanic and Black populations in this country fall into the have not category than the white population. So you could say make the case (and a very good on at that), that statistics based on race are simply pointing to economic status as the true indicator.[/quote]
That would be the correct way to look at the data unless someone can show how skin color creates an affinity for crime in itself.