Professor X: A Request

Training Bodybuilding
162

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but I have a question.

Professor X, what were your lifts like when you started?

Like bench, squat, deadlift (if you did it), etc. Thanks.

If you are asking what I was lifting the first day in a gym, I don’t recall what the very first weight was that I picked up. I do remember curling 35lbs dumbbells the first time I hit the gym. I could do one 45lbs plate on each side in high school for the bench press. All of those went up pretty drastically once I started training more seriously. By the time I first deadlifted, I had been training for a while so I was doing at least 3 plates a side. I don’t deadlift anymore and don’t think it is necessary or as much the wonder exercise so many others seem to think it is.

You have to understand that we were pretty active growing up. That means that I was not some sedentary weakling when I first hit the gym like so many people seem to be today. [/quote]

Thanks. I was interested because I have heard a lot about how splits are ‘inappropriate’ for weak beginners. This obviously did not apply to you in any way, but it just made me think.

163

[quote]Der Candy wrote:

Thanks. I was interested because I have heard a lot about how splits are ‘inappropriate’ for weak beginners. This obviously did not apply to you in any way, but it just made me think.
[/quote]

Most of the bodybuilders in history started with a split type of workout. However, again most people (before maybe the last 10-15 years) weren’t complete sedentary lard asses before they ever hit a gym. The training philosophy you are talking about implies a beginner who is so new to any weight being lifted that they have to work their way to “average” before they can even train individual body parts. The previously active non-superweak beginner does not fall into that category and I don’t see using a body part split as doing anything but helping someone make gains in muscle mass.

164

Here’s a nice little barometer:

If you knew what a game controller was before you what a barbell was - you need to read up on total body training.

If you knew what a barbell was before you knew what a game controller was - you probably need a wheelchair.

167

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The training philosophy you are talking about implies a beginner who is so new to any weight being lifted that they have to work their way to “average” before they can even train individual body parts. The previously active non-superweak beginner does not fall into that category and I don’t see using a body part split as doing anything but helping someone make gains in muscle mass.
[/quote]

One thing I often say in my seminars is that some people are so uncoordinated, weak and out of shape because of their sedentary lifestyle that the first thing they need to accomplish when they start to train is to ‘‘experience their body’’.

In other words the weakest of the weak and most sedentary guys (and gals), those who never participated in any sport nor did any type of physical activity will benefit from a routine that involve the whole body, preferably with movements involving a lot of muscle mass at the same time. This is because:

‘‘They lack the motor control and neural efficiency to coordinate muscles and have a decent muscle recruitment. Since their previous lifestyle never involved any coordinated and intense physical work, they must work on establishing that base first’’

These same peoples also need to train each muscle group more frequently… why? Because:

  1. Their capacity to recruit their muscle is extremely low. To improve motor-unit recruitment, frequency is a key (it’s kinda like learning a golf swing… practicing more often will lead to quicker learning). Make no mistake, a beginner who is a motor-moron is first and foremost ‘‘learning’’ to use his muscles at first. For that initial motor learning phase he needs to train each muscle group more often.

  2. While he needs to train each muscle more often, his work capacity is super low (because of his total lack of physical activity up to this point). So he cannot train much more than 3x per week. To have a high frequency of training for each muscle group without training often necessitate a full-body approach.

  3. Because of that low work capacity, he cannot use a lot of exercises at each session. So he should focus on basic exercises that hits several muscle group at once.

BUT … as someone get stronger and in better physical condition, he will do better to switch to a split training routine (especially if muscular development is his primary concern). Why? Because:

  1. More strength = capacity to use more weight = more damage to the muscles, tendons and joints = the need for more rest days before hitting the same muscle group again.

  2. As you reach a higher level of development, you might need to add more exercises for each body part… either to correct a weakness or for continued growth via an increase in training stimulus. If you more from 2 exercises per muscle group to 4, you cannot train as many muscle groups in each session thus you will need to split your training into more different workouts.

In another thread I gave the example of Dorian Yates. While his style of training is open to criticism, one thing that he was smart with was to split his training more and more as his strength and muscularity increased.

For example when he started bodybuilding he would train on a 2-ways split. As he got stronger he moved on to a 3-ways split. Then he got even bigger and strong and moved to a 4-ways split. All to accommodate the increase in stress from his greater strength and to be able to use more exercises to build a more complete physique.

168

[quote]bmitch wrote:
I’ve been reading this thread for the past while, lots of good info, but i got a few questions for you prof. x if you’re still answering

  1. Do you ever have deload weeks or weeks off(What about when you first started off and put on most of your muscle?)
    [/quote]

I never took any weeks off. I may decrease the weight used if I suspect I may be close to straining something but I don’t just quit lifting for no reason. If I am stressed I may take more days off that week, but I haven’t taken an entire week off in a long time.

You are asking questions that don’t have an “always yes” or “Always no” answer. If I feel the need to do cardio when gaining, I will add it in. If I am gaining too much body fat, it will get added in as well. I won’t, however, be doing cardio just to be doing cardio.

169

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The training philosophy you are talking about implies a beginner who is so new to any weight being lifted that they have to work their way to “average” before they can even train individual body parts. The previously active non-superweak beginner does not fall into that category and I don’t see using a body part split as doing anything but helping someone make gains in muscle mass.

One thing I often say in my seminars is that some people are so uncoordinated, weak and out of shape because of their sedentary lifestyle that the first thing they need to accomplish when they start to train is to ‘‘experience their body’’.

In other words the weakest of the weak and most sedentary guys (and gals), those who never participated in any sport nor did any type of physical activity will benefit from a routine that involve the whole body, preferably with movements involving a lot of muscle mass at the same time. This is because:

‘‘They lack the motor control and neural efficiency to coordinate muscles and have a decent muscle recruitment. Since their previous lifestyle never involved any coordinated and intense physical work, they must work on establishing that base first’’

These same peoples also need to train each muscle group more frequently… why? Because:

  1. Their capacity to recruit their muscle is extremely low. To improve motor-unit recruitment, frequency is a key (it’s kinda like learning a golf swing… practicing more often will lead to quicker learning). Make no mistake, a beginner who is a motor-moron is first and foremost ‘‘learning’’ to use his muscles at first. For that initial motor learning phase he needs to train each muscle group more often.

  2. While he needs to train each muscle more often, his work capacity is super low (because of his total lack of physical activity up to this point). So he cannot train much more than 3x per week. To have a high frequency of training for each muscle group without training often necessitate a full-body approach.

  3. Because of that low work capacity, he cannot use a lot of exercises at each session. So he should focus on basic exercises that hits several muscle group at once.

BUT … as someone get stronger and in better physical condition, he will do better to switch to a split training routine (especially if muscular development is his primary concern). Why? Because:

  1. More strength = capacity to use more weight = more damage to the muscles, tendons and joints = the need for more rest days before hitting the same muscle group again.

  2. As you reach a higher level of development, you might need to add more exercises for each body part… either to correct a weakness or for continued growth via an increase in training stimulus. If you more from 2 exercises per muscle group to 4, you cannot train as many muscle groups in each session thus you will need to split your training into more different workouts.

In another thread I gave the example of Dorian Yates. While his style of training is open to criticism, one thing that he was smart with was to split his training more and more as his strength and muscularity increased.

For example when he started bodybuilding he would train on a 2-ways split. As he got stronger he moved on to a 3-ways split. Then he got even bigger and strong and moved to a 4-ways split. All to accommodate the increase in stress from his greater strength and to be able to use more exercises to build a more complete physique.

[/quote]

Like what you quoted, I don’t disagree with that at all…however, there sure do seem to be a TON of people who have never moved off the couch logging in, huh?

It seems that every single newbie gets told they all fall into the same category on this website as if “TBT” or anything similar is some generic response to anyone asking.

The people with the genetics to actually build enough muscle to ever approach some extreme level probably aren’t that uncoordinated before they ever started training seriously.

In other words, many seem to just accept that EVERYONE is a “hardgainer” and that anyone who isn’t is so few and far between that they aren’t even worth discussing.

This mentality does nothing but breed animosity towards anyone else who isn’t the weakest genetic specimen in the gym while giving the excuse that they will have limited growth no matter what.

170

Prof,

I remember reading this thread when I was a freshman in college last year. I read your posts which is worth a lot of knowledge from personal experience. I decided to actually eat some fucking food since it was all available to me. At the time, I didn’t have money to buy enough food for 6 meals a day like I do now. But I ate incredibly big 2 meals (all you can eat at college) with snacks in between. I went from 140 to 180lbs at 5’7 and a half by summer and decided to better my habits by eating 6 times a day. It was the necessary “evil” of forcing down some food because the progress just slowed a bit. By Christmas I was 198lbs and honestly I would say I would never be where I am at now (strength wise and mass) if I never followed some of your posts. A big thank you for that. I’m looking to gain some more good size and experience along the way.

Your input on total body training is true, for me at least. I’m doing TBT (2 months so far) my 2nd semester sophomore year (I’ve done 4 day splits most of the time before and made good gains) and I feel as if though more progress can be made by splits. I am going to switch back to a 4-5 day split as soon as this semester is over.

Can you PM me your current stats (strength, size)?

171

Professor X-- nobody has asked you what hand you wipe your ass with yet, how many reps, and do you switch up for ‘balance’… :slight_smile:

More seriously, your commentary is refreshing. It’s a great perspective-- without condescending. I’m sure you would be a great mentor/trainer, another rarity (in my experience).

I’m a huge fan of ‘body awareness’, especially since I tweaked some discs last year. Form and and body communication have become paramount-- I have no ego at the gym.

You seem to have achieved ‘Bodybuilding Zen’-- neat.

In fact, after reading this thread (I didn’t know it existed until it was recently resurrected), I went into the gym today and just kinda played it by ear-- went off my ‘routine’. I had a GREAT workout, good change up. I may persue this for a couple weeks.

Would also be interested in seeing the pics of what you’ve achieved.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

172

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
One thing I often say in my seminars is that some people are so uncoordinated, weak and out of shape because of their sedentary lifestyle that the first thing they need to accomplish when they start to train is to ‘‘experience their body’’.

In other words the weakest of the weak and most sedentary guys (and gals), those who never participated in any sport nor did any type of physical activity will benefit from a routine that involve the whole body, preferably with movements involving a lot of muscle mass at the same time. This is because:

‘‘They lack the motor control and neural efficiency to coordinate muscles and have a decent muscle recruitment. Since their previous lifestyle never involved any coordinated and intense physical work, they must work on establishing that base first’’

These same peoples also need to train each muscle group more frequently… why? Because:

  1. Their capacity to recruit their muscle is extremely low. To improve motor-unit recruitment, frequency is a key (it’s kinda like learning a golf swing… practicing more often will lead to quicker learning). Make no mistake, a beginner who is a motor-moron is first and foremost ‘‘learning’’ to use his muscles at first. For that initial motor learning phase he needs to train each muscle group more often.

  2. While he needs to train each muscle more often, his work capacity is super low (because of his total lack of physical activity up to this point). So he cannot train much more than 3x per week. To have a high frequency of training for each muscle group without training often necessitate a full-body approach.

  3. Because of that low work capacity, he cannot use a lot of exercises at each session. So he should focus on basic exercises that hits several muscle group at once.

BUT … as someone get stronger and in better physical condition, he will do better to switch to a split training routine (especially if muscular development is his primary concern). Why? Because:

  1. More strength = capacity to use more weight = more damage to the muscles, tendons and joints = the need for more rest days before hitting the same muscle group again.

  2. As you reach a higher level of development, you might need to add more exercises for each body part… either to correct a weakness or for continued growth via an increase in training stimulus. If you more from 2 exercises per muscle group to 4, you cannot train as many muscle groups in each session thus you will need to split your training into more different workouts.

In another thread I gave the example of Dorian Yates. While his style of training is open to criticism, one thing that he was smart with was to split his training more and more as his strength and muscularity increased.

For example when he started bodybuilding he would train on a 2-ways split. As he got stronger he moved on to a 3-ways split. Then he got even bigger and strong and moved to a 4-ways split. All to accommodate the increase in stress from his greater strength and to be able to use more exercises to build a more complete physique.
[/quote]

I found these articles written by Dorian that corroborate what you said about his split further dividing as his strength increased and the fact that weak beginner could initially benefit from high frequency full body programs.

Start Strong:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_12_25/ai_n24232416

Getting Stronger:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_26/ai_n24356599

173

[quote]Protoculture wrote:
I found these articles written by Dorian that corroborate what you said about his split further dividing as his strength increased and the fact that weak beginner could initially benefit from high frequency full body programs.

[/quote]

You thought that I was lying? :slight_smile:

174

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Protoculture wrote:
I found these articles written by Dorian that corroborate what you said about his split further dividing as his strength increased and the fact that weak beginner could initially benefit from high frequency full body programs.

You thought that I was lying? :)[/quote]

Is that how it came off? lol

It wasn’t my intention at all.

No, I posted them for entertainment sake of reading Dorian say it himself. And secondly, to show some readers evidence that pro-bodybuilders don’t always recommend 5 day splits with 20 sets of biceps (as is the popular opinion here of what bodybuilders do); but in fact offer recommendations that aren’t so different than some of the highly praised T-Nation authors.

Consider it my small contribution to help bodybuilding/bodybuilders regain some degree of credibility in the eyes of many on this site.

175

Thanks for posting this info prof x. I have read the thread and have only a couple of question right now.
I am assuming from your posts that you do not use predetermined rest periods. Just wondering how you decide to move on to your 2nd set, 3rd set, next exercise, etc?

For nutrition do you worry about doing things like mixing carbs and fat? Or do you jsut say fuck it and smear pb on toast or whatever?

176

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
Thanks for posting this info prof x. I have read the thread and have only a couple of question right now.
I am assuming from your posts that you do not use predetermined rest periods. Just wondering how you decide to move on to your 2nd set, 3rd set, next exercise, etc?
For nutrition do you worry about doing things like mixing carbs and fat? Or do you jsut say fuck it and smear pb on toast or whatever?[/quote]

I move to my next set when I am rested enough to hit that weight again. I don’t time myself and don’t use any other gauge than whether I feel I can lift that much again with everything I have.

Why would someone do it any other way?

When I first started, I used to simply make sure I wasn’t resting too long (as in maybe more than 3min between sets). Mind you, it isn’t like I sat there and timed myself either. When I used to train with two other powerlifters, we would rest sometimes as long as 5min between sets. You rest as much as YOU need to. That is the only guideline you follow. Avoid resting too long (in excess of 3-5min) in order to avoid allowing blood to leave the target muscle group.

As for my diet, I think the focus on not eating carbs with fat has been taken way overboard. Right now I eat fairly clean. Most of my meals are cooked ahead of time. Most of them are steak and potatoes. My goal is not to avoid eating fats or carbs together. I truly hope most aren’t making that some kind of religion because the more important thing is whether you are eating enough to actually fuel muscle growth. I could possibly see that type of focus on carbs and fats when DIETING and then mostly for people who are having a hard time losing body fat.

177

[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Note to Professor X: There’s NO such thing as a “lower” and “upper” chest. Take a course in anatomy and physiology please.[/quote]

Sorry for the late response on this, I just saw it.

While the ‘angled’ training debate may rage on for other bodyparts, there is NO question that it is an absolute requirement for complete chest development.

If you were paying attention in those anatomy and physiology courses you alledgedly took, you’d know that the pectoralis major is a fan-shaped muscle with several attachments along the ribs and sternum. Because of this fan shape, you can emphasize the upper and lower areas (better? no?) of the pecs as you need.

If the angle is extreme enough, you can even stimulate specific portions of the chest to the exclusion of others. You can see this if you try close-grip shrugs (with both hands close togther out in front of your “gear”) — at the top of this movement, the upper pec major is contracted, while the lower portion of the pec remains slack.

178

This was a good read. Some good stuff to think about and apply.

179

about the deadlifts vs alternative back builders.

i see where you can say that x, y, and z bodybuilders didnt use deadlifts and still have impressive backs but what about looking at it the other way, as people who do use deadlifts frequently and the type of backs they have amassed? i think theres a higher ratio of deadlifters with good backs than people who use alternatives with good backs. perhaps after a point in time they may become more dangerous but i think if youre just starting out then its going to be the quickest way to add mass to your back, and all over.

deadlifts have a preference on this site, yes but in practicum i think theyre really quite overlooked and maybe thats actually why theres so many people with shitty backs that only do things like shrugs.

180

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
about the deadlifts vs alternative back builders.

i see where you can say that x, y, and z bodybuilders didnt use deadlifts and still have impressive backs but what about looking at it the other way, as people who do use deadlifts frequently and the type of backs they have amassed? i think theres a higher ratio of deadlifters with good backs than people who use alternatives with good backs. perhaps after a point in time they may become more dangerous but i think if youre just starting out then its going to be the quickest way to add mass to your back, and all over.

deadlifts have a preference on this site, yes but in practicum i think theyre really quite overlooked and maybe thats actually why theres so many people with shitty backs that only do things like shrugs. [/quote]

Paul Dillet hated squats and did mostly leg presses. I doubt anyone would claim his legs weren’t well developed.

You train in ways you have to, not in ways anyone else does.

If some guy can build 21" arms by not training them directly, good for him. That doesn’t mean you need to do it and that is the point being made.

No one made any recommendations.

181

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Most of the bodybuilders in history started with a split type of workout. However, again most people (before maybe the last 10-15 years) weren’t complete sedentary lard asses before they ever hit a gym. The training philosophy you are talking about implies a beginner who is so new to any weight being lifted that they have to work their way to “average” before they can even train individual body parts. The previously active non-superweak beginner does not fall into that category and I don’t see using a body part split as doing anything but helping someone make gains in muscle mass.[/quote]

that entire concept of “sedentary…superweak beginners” is just too funny.