Professor Called Racist For Correcting Black Student's Grammar & Punctuation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

I will say for most companies, there are procedures, controls, and policies in place to prevent such discrimination.

Not to mention, HR is DOMINATED by women so if it was really that bad, some HR executive would probably have something to say about it.
[/quote]

Good post, and I’m leaving the last two for added emphasis.

The last line in particular is one of the major factors in the wage disparity. Women tend to choose fields that, as a society, we don’t put as much dollar value on. Teaching is a great example. Noble profession, that we tend to pay (relatively speaking) lower wages to.

Women also tend to sacrifice their earning potential more than men to maximize their ability to run a household and take care of kids. Whether this be through accepting lower pay for more flex time (one reason I now make more than one of the women who had the same title, same degree and same experience I did, who used to make more than me), or just stop working for a few years.[/quote]

Correct. Women dominate the Non-profit field and tend to work at smaller, family companies which allow for more flexibility. All of that comes at a cost.

Now if you wanted to make argument that women may not get as many opportunities as men the higher you go up, I’d be more incline to say there is some degree of truth to that, but it still isn’t as black and white as people want to make it out to be.

62

Also, even if they are in the same field and the hold the same job title as a male in highly physical jobs, construction, mining, shipping, etc. should the men not make more if they are more productive or versatile?? Anecdotal evidence but I know of three instances personally at UPS, FEDEX, and Walmart Distribution where men were pulled off of their own jobs (and the clock kept running) to help a female employee who was making the same wage meet her quota because she was physically incapable of it, then proceed to return to their jobs and meet their quotas also.

These women are promoted much faster than men to minor managerial positions that require less physical labor, not because of their abilities but because of their inability to do the physical aspect of the job adequately. Why not terminate them like you would a man if he was unable to do the job?? Because that would be discrimination.

63

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]

If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[/quote]
Because of what will happen when their cycles all get in sync.

64

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]

Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.

That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]

You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]

I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.

[/quote]

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?

  1. /quote ↩︎

65

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]

Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.

That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]

You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]

I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.

[/quote]

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

Because men do make more than women across the board in almost every field. What you do not seem to see, however, is this has very little to do with discrimination (although I am sure there are some instances of that) and far more to do with other factors like the ones CB and ZJ have pointed to.

  1. /quote ↩︎

66

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

See mine and Bean’s comments above. It’s not black and white.

Trying to say an Accountant II pay at your local Non-profit compared to an Accountant II at IBM should be the same is ridiculous.

67

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]

Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.

That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]

You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]

I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.

[/quote]

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

Because men do make more than women across the board in almost every field. What you do not seem to see, however, is this has very little to do with discrimination (although I am sure there are some instances of that) and far more to do with other factors like the ones CB and ZJ have pointed to.[/quote]

Correct.

Statistics are hard, I get that, but if you have 6000 people in the survey, 3000 women, and 3000 men, and 1200 women took time off/lower pay for more flex time better benefits and only 1000 men did. Booom, dat der war on da womenz is born.

This is silly really.

  1. /quote ↩︎

68

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]

Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.

That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]

You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]

I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.

[/quote]

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

Because men do make more than women across the board in almost every field. What you do not seem to see, however, is this has very little to do with discrimination (although I am sure there are some instances of that) and far more to do with other factors like the ones CB and ZJ have pointed to.[/quote]

When I say discrimination I mean a structured form, not nasty evil men being sinister. And like I say I do not think this is a black and white issue.

Like chris rock says white guys get picked because they have a frame of reference with a white employer that a black man won’t. Not a premeditated form of discrimination, but a cultural one that is not premeditated. I am not saying every instance is from the same cause etc.

But there are lots of instances where a man and a woman with the same qualifications and experience at the same companies and the man will get paid more.

  1. /quote ↩︎

69

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]

If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[/quote]
Because of what will happen when their cycles all get in sync. [/quote]

I laughed

70

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]

Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.

That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]

You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]

I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.

[/quote]

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

Because men do make more than women across the board in almost every field. What you do not seem to see, however, is this has very little to do with discrimination (although I am sure there are some instances of that) and far more to do with other factors like the ones CB and ZJ have pointed to.[/quote]

Correct.

Statistics are hard, I get that, but if you have 6000 people in the survey, 3000 women, and 3000 men, and 1200 women took time off/lower pay for more flex time better benefits and only 1000 men did. Booom, dat der war on da womenz is born.

This is silly really. [/quote]

No one is arguing that !

Goodness. Please stop using straw men, I am not debating that fact with you. I am saying that when you look at full time women who work as many hours as men, in each field apart from a few government job fields like education, women get less pay for equal work.

  1. /quote ↩︎

71

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

See mine and Bean’s comments above. It’s not black and white.

Trying to say an Accountant II pay at your local Non-profit compared to an Accountant II at IBM should be the same is ridiculous.[/quote]

lol, even II pay in private v public is going to be different, and then you start dragging that across geographical locations…

A lot of Sowell’s book, which I couldn’t recommend more is him pointing out how people use and manipulate statistics to their benefit. He doesn’t even really draw that many conclusions as much as he offers, over and over again, a different, relevant, way of looking at the data we have. Some detail, some perspective that is important when trying to cause causation.

Does discrimination exist? Sure. Is it the main factor in wage disparity? Very unlikely, but crying about discrimination sure gets the low information people all rallied up for a cause.

72

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

See mine and Bean’s comments above. It’s not black and white.

Trying to say an Accountant II pay at your local Non-profit compared to an Accountant II at IBM should be the same is ridiculous.[/quote]

lol, even II pay in private v public is going to be different, and then you start dragging that across geographical locations…

A lot of Sowell’s book, which I couldn’t recommend more is him pointing out how people use and manipulate statistics to their benefit. He doesn’t even really draw that many conclusions as much as he offers, over and over again, a different, relevant, way of looking at the data we have. Some detail, some perspective that is important when trying to cause causation.

Does discrimination exist? Sure. Is it the main factor in wage disparity? Very unlikely, but crying about discrimination sure gets the low information people all rallied up for a cause. [/quote]

Then add in negotiation skills. I negotiate a pay rate near max at my level. My girlfriend was to afraid to negotiate and she happily took what was given to her.

Again, more explanations for what’s going on that simple statistical slides do not address.

73

In fact, I’m emailing two different controllers right now about various issues. One man and one woman. The woman makes 20% more (just looked it up) and has about 3/4ths the workload.

She also never had kids, and has more continuous relevant experience than the male controller. But he lives in a no income tax state with a cost of living about 3/4ths her’s…

So who really makes more?

74

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

If these studies are not detailed enough to make a case of anything, why is there not one study where women are paid more and dominate the job market with pay gaps? What does that tell you?[/quote]

See mine and Bean’s comments above. It’s not black and white.
[/quote]

Everything is black and white. Man you aren’t any good at c-dog threads Z :wink:

75

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]

If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[/quote]
Because of what will happen when their cycles all get in sync. [/quote]

I laughed[/quote]

So did I. Impressive zinger there.

76

TBH, women in construction piss me off. They physically CAN NOT do the same amount of work. They ruin morale, get people fired for dropping an F bomb, get special port a johns with a lock on it while we have to shit in the same port a johns as the Mexicans, and they constantly complain about EVERYTHING. If you correct them in a “politically incorrect way”, you lose your job.

Then they get promoted to Foreman because you can’t fire them and they run the job into the ground because they lack the experience to make the right calls.

I have NEVER seen a woman set a switchgear by herself, or run 4" Ridged Metallic Conduit by herself ( or even pick up a 10’ stick and carry it up a flight of stairs)…

The biggest mistake men made it human history was allowing women to wear shoes.

LOL

77

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
TBH, women in construction piss me off. They physically CAN NOT do the same amount of work. They ruin morale, get people fired for dropping an F bomb, get special port a johns with a lock on it while we have to shit in the same port a johns as the Mexicans, and they constantly complain about EVERYTHING. If you correct them in a “politically incorrect way”, you lose your job.

Then they get promoted to Foreman because you can’t fire them and they run the job into the ground because they lack the experience to make the right calls.

I have NEVER seen a woman set a switchgear by herself, or run 4" Ridged Metallic Conduit by herself ( or even pick up a 10’ stick and carry it up a flight of stairs)…

The biggest mistake men made it human history was allowing women to wear shoes.

LOL[/quote]

I keep telling her, “give me back my rib bitch.”

78

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]

If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[/quote]

that’s funny.

the 23-cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. it does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure, or hours worked per week.

when all these relevant factors are taken into consideration, the wage gap narrows to about five cents. and no one knows if the five cents is a result of discrimination or some other subtle, hard-to-measure difference between male and female workers.

men and women differ in their college majors. Here is a list of the ten most remunerative majors compiled by the georgetown university center on education and the workforce. men overwhelmingly outnumber women in all but one of them:

Petroleum Engineering: 87% male
Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration: 48% male
Mathematics and Computer Science: 67% male
Aerospace Engineering: 88% male
Chemical Engineering: 72% male
Electrical Engineering: 89% male
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering: 97% male
Mechanical Engineering: 90% male
Metallurgical Engineering: 83% male
Mining and Mineral Engineering: 90% male

here are the ten least remunerative majors-where women prevail in nine out of ten:

Counseling Psychology: 74% female
Early Childhood Education: 97% female
Theology and Religious Vocations: 34% female
Human Services and Community Organization: 81% female
Social Work: 88% female
Drama and Theater Arts: 60% female
Studio Arts: 66% female
Communication Disorders Sciences and Services: 94% female
Visual and Performing Arts: 77% female
Health and Medical Preparatory Programs: 55% female

79

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]

If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[/quote]
Because of what will happen when their cycles all get in sync. [/quote]

If I’m getting the same output for 20% less; I’ll find a way to get my cycle in sync. too!

80

Yes it does.