^
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Perhaps because most people are smart enough to not get all “sky is falling” about them?[/quote]
***************** TO SOME OF YOU. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE ************
gee i guess i never considered that.
i also forgot to consider where i was. the pwi forum where six or seven of you suck each other off every day and insinuate that others aren’t “smart enough” because your news information source didn’t consider my story news.
i guess the sky wasn’t falling before stalin killed between 20 and 60 million of his own people.
i guess the sky wasn’t falling leading up to the holocaust.
a president assures americans that if it weren’t for fox news the nsa collecting almost 5 billion cell phone records a day, the irs giving itself millions in bonuses after it’s nazi tactics with the right, and lying to cover up not protecting our u.s. embassies from muslim murderers, would never have crossed anyone’s mind is pretty close to the sky is falling.
if it isn’t then a president that notifies americans that he will do what- ever he can without legislation; just a pen and a phone is the sky about to fall.
i won’t even begin to parallel the tsa tactics with nazi tactics.
now feel free to go about your esoteric conversations while stopping in to shit on mine. [/quote]
I find it hilarious you use a libertarian socialist who fought conservatives in the spanish civil war with the anarchists and communists to make your point. George Orwell opposed you and everything your ideology and world view represents.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Lets be honest. [/quote]
You first.
A source less graph pulled from facebook…
I’ll run with Sowell’s interpretation of the data, thanks.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
You can’t show data to prove people are racist, thats because you can only document phenomena that is documentable. If I say I am not racist and in my home I call black people niggers but I answered a gallop pole on race and sai differently, guess what. I am not a racist.
The idea that women are paid less due to choices or physical differences is absurd. My mother has a degree and works as an accountant for a firm. The guy she now works with has less qualifications that her, less experience and earns five thousand more a year, he infact earns more than the three women accountants at the company branches something which they are all pissed about and are taking it up with the boss and if nothing is done leaving to fond other employment.
I have never met anyone who thinks women are not discriminated against at work. And I have seen pay gaps where men who are less qualified and less experienced earn more. How are you not seeing what pretty much everyone who works has seen or experienced? Also you seem to ignore all the statistics and instead just state no discrimination is taking place. Yet if those pay gaps were the other way round, I think you would be yelling discrimination.[/quote]
sigh.
Personal anecdotes FTW…
Enjoy.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
The idea that women are paid less due to choices or physical differences is absurd. [/quote]
You are in no position to project your personal bias.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Lets be honest. [/quote]
You first.
A source less graph pulled from facebook…
I’ll run with Sowell’s interpretation of the data, thanks.
[/quote]
OK lets play
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
How are you not seeing what pretty much everyone who works has seen or experienced? [/quote]
Um yeah, I look at over 20 payrolls a year, and don’t see any of this.
I made less than women in my hiring class for than 6 years. Not once did discrimination even factor into my thought process.
Personal anecdote FTW!
Women’s median usual weekly earnings as percentage of men’s, for full-time workers, by industry, 2009
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/download__finance_gender_analyis_research.pdf
If you actually want the truth please actually study the subject, rather than choose to believe one man, a very biased one sided approach. Read this and either accept the research findings or provide evidence to prove that they are fake. Or just keep saying no until people don’t bother interacting with you.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
How are you not seeing what pretty much everyone who works has seen or experienced? [/quote]
Um yeah, I look at over 20 payrolls a year, and don’t see any of this.
I made less than women in my hiring class for than 6 years. Not once did discrimination even factor into my thought process.
Personal anecdote FTW!
[/quote]
20 payrolls a year and your one alleged experience against pretty much every woman getting paid less for the same job in studies and personal accounts. Hmmmmm.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
percentage of a mans wage a woman earns 2008 study.[/quote]
If this was really the truth; why wouldn’t a company hire nothing but women, pay them 80% of the going wage and put the competition out of business?
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]
Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.
That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay.
-
/quote ↩︎
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]
Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.
That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]
You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.
-
/quote ↩︎
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Lets be honest. [/quote]
You first.
A source less graph pulled from facebook…
I’ll run with Sowell’s interpretation of the data, thanks.
[/quote]
OK lets play
[/quote]
Does the graphic factor in where these people went to school?
Does the graphic factor in internships/prior experience?
Does the graphic factor in geographic location?
Does the graphic factor in age differences?
Does the graphic factor in undergrad v graduate?
Does the graphic factor in married v unmarried?
Does the graphic factor in fringe benefits, such as flex time?
Does the graphic factor in with children v without children?
What time frame is the data collected in?
Why average and not median?
What is the sample size?
Are the male samples the same size as the female samples?
Are the same schools represented equally among not only the sexes, but also the professions?
Pointless pictures on a white background are pointless.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]
Thank you, but just note personal anecdote only is acceptable debate evidence when pj97x posts it.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Women’s median usual weekly earnings as percentage of men’s, for full-time workers, by industry, 2009
[/quote]
Does the graphic factor in where these people went to school?
Does the graphic factor in internships/prior experience?
Does the graphic factor in geographic location?
Does the graphic factor in age differences?
Does the graphic factor in undergrad v graduate?
Does the graphic factor in married v unmarried?
Does the graphic factor in fringe benefits, such as flex time?
Does the graphic factor in with children v without children?
What time frame is the data collected in?
Why average and not median?
What is the sample size?
Are the male samples the same size as the female samples?
Are the same schools represented equally among not only the sexes, but also the professions?
Pointless pictures on a white background are pointless.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Lets be honest. [/quote]
You first.
A source less graph pulled from facebook…
I’ll run with Sowell’s interpretation of the data, thanks.
[/quote]
OK lets play
[/quote]
Does the graphic factor in where these people went to school?
Does the graphic factor in internships/prior experience?
Does the graphic factor in geographic location?
Does the graphic factor in age differences?
Does the graphic factor in undergrad v graduate?
Does the graphic factor in married v unmarried?
Does the graphic factor in fringe benefits, such as flex time?
Does the graphic factor in with children v without children?
What time frame is the data collected in?
Why average and not median?
What is the sample size?
Are the male samples the same size as the female samples?
Are the same schools represented equally among not only the sexes, but also the professions?
Pointless pictures on a white background are pointless. [/quote]
I can add to that.
What does each category entail? Is it comparing a secretary’s salary to that of a upper management?
Does it take into account the type of company (non-profit, government, global, local, small, medium, large, public, non-public)?
Does it take into account specialized experience requirements, licenses, etc?
Does it take into account locality?
Does it take into account job responsibility differences even if the position title is the same?
Take into account performance bonuses?
I will say for most companies, there are procedures, controls, and policies in place to prevent such discrimination.
Not to mention, HR is DOMINATED by women so if it was really that bad, some HR executive would probably have something to say about it.
Countingbeans and pj debate would be much better if they compare stuff to the Holocaust, dropping of the atomic bomb, Great Depression, and French Revolution.
Come on you two can do better. Everything we discuss is JUST like the final solution.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[1]
Just like an statistics, it depends on what makes up the data. Until I see that, I can’t make an opinion on what you’ve provided as support.
That being said, I’m an auditor and I see payroll for a lot of companies spread through a lot of fields and I’ve seen nothing to suggest discrimination when it comes to job level responsibility and pay. [/quote]
You won’t unless you look at the overall statistic. Thats the point.[/quote]
I won’t what? The statistic isn’t detailed enough to make any type of case for anything. All of items Beans and I pointed out have to be taken into consideration before you can even begin to make a determination if there is discrimination.
-
/quote ↩︎
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
I will say for most companies, there are procedures, controls, and policies in place to prevent such discrimination.
Not to mention, HR is DOMINATED by women so if it was really that bad, some HR executive would probably have something to say about it.
[/quote]
Good post, and I’m leaving the last two for added emphasis.
The last line in particular is one of the major factors in the wage disparity. Women tend to choose fields that, as a society, we don’t put as much dollar value on. Teaching is a great example. Noble profession, that we tend to pay (relatively speaking) lower wages to.
Women also tend to sacrifice their earning potential more than men to maximize their ability to run a household and take care of kids. Whether this be through accepting lower pay for more flex time (one reason I now make more than one of the women who had the same title, same degree and same experience I did, who used to make more than me), or just stop working for a few years.