[quote]xdime00 wrote:
You see, when a guy who’s already chubby goes on a mass diet, he’ll usually gain about four pounds of fat for every pound of muscle he puts on. A really lean guy doesn’t have that problem. He can usually “get his bulk on” without excessive fat gain."
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet [/quote]
Thank you, this is the advice I’ve been needing and this is the type of article Ive been looking for.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
xdime00 wrote:
You see, when a guy who’s already chubby goes on a mass diet, he’ll usually gain about four pounds of fat for every pound of muscle he puts on. A really lean guy doesn’t have that problem. He can usually “get his bulk on” without excessive fat gain."
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet
Thank you, this is the advice I’ve been needing and this is the type of article Ive been looking for.[/quote]
you’re not fat
STFU
[quote]xdime00 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
but I need to cut my body fat before I worry about my muscles
This was a gem also. Whatever author/trainer/mollusk made you believe that should be left off of your myspace friends list.
"So here are some general rules for the FFB who wants to add mass without having to break out the “husky” pants:
You see, when a guy who’s already chubby goes on a mass diet, he’ll usually gain about four pounds of fat for every pound of muscle he puts on. A really lean guy doesn’t have that problem. He can usually “get his bulk on” without excessive fat gain."
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet[/quote]
Come on man, the FFB title is so out of focus for most people it’s a joke. If I’m not mistaken Chris was VERY fat(300 lbs?) and currently walks around at a lean 180-190 which is his choice. How many guys that are making these threads are at least 100 lbs overweight?
You sound really silly quoting an author when in reality he’d probably come on here and say the same thing the vets on here are “Just start training hard and progressive and eating good quality food every few hours, don’t worry about cutting and bulking yet till you’ve got something to work with.”
And maybe people could look in the mirror and blame the right guy when it turns out “JUST F’IN EAT!!!” maybe isn’t the best choice for a 30 year old new trainee with endomorphic qualities who has psychological hangups with food to begin with. Let’s use some good deductive reasoning based on our own genetics/progress/whatever and learn a thing or two about ourselves instead of spouting the words of an author like it’s the bible.
I really see why Professor X needed a break.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
<<< You sound really silly quoting an author when in reality he’d probably come on here and say the same thing the vets on here are “Just start training hard and progressive and eating good quality food every few hours, don’t worry about cutting and bulking yet till you’ve got something to work with.” >>>[/quote]
I went on record as saying that Shugart convinced me to “adjust” my views on this for SOME people and I stand by that, however don’t jump the gun on how anybody would respond in this thread. I mean nothing by that other than I don’t know. FFB sightings can be in the eye of the beholder.
The second part of your statement should be universal advice for every single serious person for as log as it takes to observe unmistakable trends after which sensible tweaking should begin. Have no fear though, there will continue to be no shortage of people who have absolutely no clue what they’re doing, but are certain beyond a shadow of a doubt of what they already want to hear.
Yeah I guess that’s the hard thing to get across, there are those exceptions to the rule that have to absolutely metiluclous if they want to grow a muscular physique without getting overly fat. Having said that I have a hard time accepting there are so many “exceptions” posting on one site who have by all the accounts they give very little consistently good training experience or consisntent(there’s that word again haha) good eating habits.
Same thing with the hardgainer mentality, it seems we only have a bunch of “FFB” and “hardgainers” that post on this site you know?
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
xdime00 wrote:
You see, when a guy who’s already chubby goes on a mass diet, he’ll usually gain about four pounds of fat for every pound of muscle he puts on. A really lean guy doesn’t have that problem. He can usually “get his bulk on” without excessive fat gain."
Article.do?article=05-118-diet
Thank you, this is the advice I’ve been needing and this is the type of article Ive been looking for.[/quote]
Interesting. The one piece of advice he shouldn’t have listened to and that is what he writes thank you notes for.
It is ridiculous that so many on this site seem to need some sort of label for themselves before they ever pick up a weight. There is a rather large difference between someone with a very slow metabolism…and someone who was simply so inactive before they ever started training that they were carrying some extra body fat. The latter does not make you the coveted “FFB” by itself no matter how badly you like name tags.
well does FFB mean like 20 lbs overweight? Or does it mean insanely obese 300 pounder? If it refers to the 2nd option then thats my mistake, i took it as someone who has some weight to lose, not a hundred pounds.
Like i said Im brand new here and im not going to pretend like i know anything (which many of you have made abundantly clear I don’t) I have read several articles and I feel they are either irrelevant to me and don’t talk about my goals, or I just don’t understand the lingo.
I appreciate that so many of you have taken concern to this thread, but when it comes to what I need to put into my body, Im as naive as they come. If anyone has a link to an article about how to read food labels and what to look for that would be insanely helpful.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It is ridiculous that so many on this site seem to need some sort of label for themselves before they ever pick up a weight. [/quote]
Ah that’s what I was trying to say. People seem to want to pidgeon hole themselves into these categories as almost like a backup for WHEN(not if) they fail. “Ah I got fat bulking, it’s because I’m a FFB.” Not because they couldn’t access their progress in an intelligent manner, that couldn’t be it. That sort of thing is what we are seeing a lot of.
Like I said in the earlier post of course there are the exceptions, but the vast majority aren’t that special snowflake ma and pa told them their whole lives. The vast majority of posters here would be on the right track with the same basic advice that gets spit out over and over again.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
well does FFB mean like 20 lbs overweight? Or does it mean insanely obese 300 pounder? If it refers to the 2nd option then thats my mistake, i took it as someone who has some weight to lose, not a hundred pounds.
Like i said Im brand new here and im not going to pretend like i know anything (which many of you have made abundantly clear I don’t) I have read several articles and I feel they are either irrelevant to me and don’t talk about my goals, or I just don’t understand the lingo.
I appreciate that so many of you have taken concern to this thread, but when it comes to what I need to put into my body, Im as naive as they come. If anyone has a link to an article about how to read food labels and what to look for that would be insanely helpful. [/quote]
FFB is supposed to mean those with a truly slow metabolism who find it hard to lose body fat and who were fat as kids and/or young adults. Considering how many people just sit on their asses all day, for everyone who was “a little heavy” to use this term is just plain dumb as hell. But hey, what do you expect…for people to think for themselves?
As for why people are taking time with you…for one you seem to be listening and were really turned around. Someone like you will get all of the help they ask for.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
I appreciate that so many of you have taken concern to this thread, but when it comes to what I need to put into my body, Im as naive as they come. If anyone has a link to an article about how to read food labels and what to look for that would be insanely helpful. [/quote]
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=640350
This link has all you need to know to get started. The article I suggested is the very first diet link. No food labels(that I remember) in there, but you’ll figure out that most of the best foods don’t have ingredients lists 
[quote]Professor X wrote:
As for why people are taking time with you…for one you seem to be listening and were really turned around. Someone like you will get all of the help they ask for.
[/quote]
Thanks for the encouragement. I really am excited to dive into this new lifestyle and am 110% committed. I will do what I need to but for now I guess my plan will be to stick around 3000 calories and just find a good weight lifting plan and just go from there.
My goal is to get down to 10-11% body fat and just have a muscular, athletic “beach body”. When i achieve that I will decide if I want to really bulk out. I understand fully that you don’t just “diet” for a month and get what you want. Im in this for the long haul cause I am tired of being a flabby young adult. Its time i start kicking my own ass.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
Professor X wrote:
As for why people are taking time with you…for one you seem to be listening and were really turned around. Someone like you will get all of the help they ask for.
Thanks for the encouragement. I really am excited to dive into this new lifestyle and am 110% committed. I will do what I need to but for now I guess my plan will be to stick around 3000 calories and just find a good weight lifting plan and just go from there.
My goal is to get down to 10-11% body fat and just have a muscular, athletic “beach body”. When i achieve that I will decide if I want to really bulk out. I understand fully that you don’t just “diet” for a month and get what you want. Im in this for the long haul cause I am tired of being a flabby young adult. Its time i start kicking my own ass. [/quote]
You’re missing the point. You have no idea how much food you need at this point. From what I gather you are not going to be able to get leaner and bigger from where you are now. You started this thread by stating you’re getting weaker. Regardless of how much you’re eating now you need more. Rather than stamp a number on your plan why not try increasing it incrementally until you are gaining strength and size at a rate that pleases you? What difference does it make what that number actually is?
A couple more quick points:
As my colleagues (colleagues? yeah I guess so) have already said, people who actually gain fat by smelling twinkies are as rare as people who can’t make gains eating 10,000 calories a day. Most of us fall somewhere in the wide generally normal range with individual variations of course. You are one of the normal ones.
This will piss some people off, but I really wonder about young men who actually make gains and then just become satisfied after a few pounds and decide that that’s enough. I could be fooling myself, but it seems to me that it is inherently male to want to continue improving whether it be sports, strength or size. I just cannot understand training for “physique” goals that end at faggotty cologne commercials. You mentioned seeing what you want when you make some gains that’s why I bring this up.
I was a skinny kid and a soft skinny adult. When I discovered that I was capable of changing that I stared wide eyed at that mirror the first time I noticed my muscles growing and the drive swept over me for more. Further, had I eaten more back then my gains would’ve continued as I have now proven to myself and I never would have lost that drive the first time thinking that that was as big as I could get (long story).
Bottom line is my hope for guys like you is that you eat some food move some weight and make some progress and catch that bug. Call me over dramatic, but it disturbs me that more guys do not do any of this.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You’re missing the point. You have no idea how much food you need at this point. From what I gather you are not going to be able to get leaner and bigger from where you are now. You started this thread by stating you’re getting weaker. Regardless of how much you’re eating now you need more. Rather than stamp a number on your plan why not try increasing it incrementally until you are gaining strength and size at a rate that pleases you? What difference does it make what that number actually is?
[/quote]
Thank you for your post, i was just wondering if you could clarify a couple points you made. You said increase my intake incrementally, how would you suggest doing that? Like how many calories should i increase at a time? How long should i try a new amount of calories for?
It seems to me that people were rippin on me for having such a low number of calories towards the beginning of the post, and some suggested just stopping what i was doing altogether, so im just wondering what you think a good number to start off would be, or if thats for me to find out myself, and if thats the case, how do i go about doing that? Thats kind of a complicated question, but i think you know what im getting at. Thanks again for all your input, these last few posts have given me a lot of encouragement.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
This link has all you need to know to get started. The article I suggested is the very first diet link. No food labels(that I remember) in there, but you’ll figure out that most of the best foods don’t have ingredients lists :)[/quote]
I appreciate the help, man. Im assuming body builders or anyone taking their body seriously has the same daily schedule as your average person walking around. I just don’t understand how anyone can find time to cook and eat every 2-3 hours daily…especially anything remotely healthy. Any tricks or advice?
Again to all of you giving me sincere help, I can’t thank you enough.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
Scott M wrote:
This link has all you need to know to get started. The article I suggested is the very first diet link. No food labels(that I remember) in there, but you’ll figure out that most of the best foods don’t have ingredients lists
I appreciate the help, man. Im assuming body builders or anyone taking their body seriously has the same daily schedule as your average person walking around. I just don’t understand how anyone can find time to cook and eat every 2-3 hours daily…especially anything remotely healthy. Any tricks or advice?
Again to all of you giving me sincere help, I can’t thank you enough.[/quote]
Cook in bulk and use tupperware. Here’s some example of food prep. Bear in mind this guy is prepping for a contest, you don’t have to eat as clean as this but it’ll give you a good idea.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
xdime00 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
but I need to cut my body fat before I worry about my muscles
This was a gem also. Whatever author/trainer/mollusk made you believe that should be left off of your myspace friends list.
"So here are some general rules for the FFB who wants to add mass without having to break out the “husky” pants:
You see, when a guy who’s already chubby goes on a mass diet, he’ll usually gain about four pounds of fat for every pound of muscle he puts on. A really lean guy doesn’t have that problem. He can usually “get his bulk on” without excessive fat gain."
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet
Come on man, the FFB title is so out of focus for most people it’s a joke. If I’m not mistaken Chris was VERY fat(300 lbs?) and currently walks around at a lean 180-190 which is his choice. How many guys that are making these threads are at least 100 lbs overweight?
You sound really silly quoting an author when in reality he’d probably come on here and say the same thing the vets on here are “Just start training hard and progressive and eating good quality food every few hours, don’t worry about cutting and bulking yet till you’ve got something to work with.”
And maybe people could look in the mirror and blame the right guy when it turns out “JUST F’IN EAT!!!” maybe isn’t the best choice for a 30 year old new trainee with endomorphic qualities who has psychological hangups with food to begin with. Let’s use some good deductive reasoning based on our own genetics/progress/whatever and learn a thing or two about ourselves instead of spouting the words of an author like it’s the bible. [/quote]
I was just answering your original question of where he would of gotten that idea, Im not spouting someones words off like a bible or being silly, as you can see I quoted your question “Whatever author/trainer/mollusk made you believe that should be left off of your myspace friends list.” and answered this as a possibility where he was getting that idea. I agree that he definately needs more food, and he definately doesnt need to “just eat”, but rather work on understanding what clean eating is and entails, along with what proper workouts are.
It took me over a year to learn all the ins and outs of nutrition, timing, nutrition and storage. I agree that all of berardis articles would help, along with the nutrition for newbies articles and that this is a good start as opposed to bulking or cutting.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
Scott M wrote:
This link has all you need to know to get started. The article I suggested is the very first diet link. No food labels(that I remember) in there, but you’ll figure out that most of the best foods don’t have ingredients lists
I appreciate the help, man. Im assuming body builders or anyone taking their body seriously has the same daily schedule as your average person walking around. I just don’t understand how anyone can find time to cook and eat every 2-3 hours daily…especially anything remotely healthy. Any tricks or advice?
Again to all of you giving me sincere help, I can’t thank you enough.[/quote]
foolio: it depends on whether you work or you’re in school.
If you work, you have a fridge at your office. That means you can take tupperware filled with healthy food.
If you’re in school, well, you won’t have class forever. Also, invest in a small lunch bag you can stick in your bookbag, and toss some yogurt/fruit/cottage cheese/cold veggies/peanut butter in there.
Has anyone mentioned Berardi’s 7 Habits yet? Because that’s what he definitely needs to start with. foolio, if you haven’t looked for them yet, Google “Berardi 7 habits” and click on the first link.
[quote]El_Won_foolio wrote:
Thank you for your post, i was just wondering if you could clarify a couple points you made. You said increase my intake incrementally, how would you suggest doing that? Like how many calories should i increase at a time? How long should i try a new amount of calories for?
It seems to me that people were rippin on me for having such a low number of calories towards the beginning of the post, and some suggested just stopping what i was doing altogether, so im just wondering what you think a good number to start off would be, or if thats for me to find out myself, and if thats the case, how do i go about doing that? Thats kind of a complicated question, but i think you know what im getting at. Thanks again for all your input, these last few posts have given me a lot of encouragement.[/quote]
In a lot of cases I’d say over do it for a while and scale back if need be, but you’ve been eating a very low intake for a while and have hence probably slowed your ability to absorb food some despite working out. That may not be best for you. If it were me I’d start with 500 or 700 calories a day spread over your six meals. This doesn’t have to be done with surgical precision.
If you’re eating 4 eggs twice a day go to 6, increase portions at each meal of all items and especially the first meal. DO NOT spare the fat. I’m not saying to drink melted lard, but eat the whole egg and don’t be so quick to trim all that fat off the meat. Have chicken thighs instead of skinless boneless breasts. Fat is a wonderful nutrient and has ESSENTIAL benefits regardless of what the brainwashed media would have you believe. Eat vegetables at will and practically anything you want in the hours after a workout provided it has plenty of protein and overall calories.
I am about the cleanest eating guy on these boards, meaning I do not touch fast food, or packaged, processed anything, however for most people it isn’t going to kill you to go to McDonalds with your friends once in a while or have a pizza.
Look, body fat is a slow moving critter. It doesn’t jump you in a dark alley. You aren’t going to wake up horrified that you now look like a medicine ball with a face. You will have plenty of warning before it becomes a problem. The whole key in my opinion is attitude. If you concentrate on NOT getting fat you will also NOT get bigger. If you intelligently concentrate on getting bigger you will, without getting actually fat though you may have to tolerate SOME fat gain. The house never gets built if you’re pulling bricks off the back wall while adding them to the front.
Once your strength and muscle gains are humming along, however much fat you’ve gained doesn’t have to be added to. In other words it’s not like you have to keep getting fatter while getting more muscular, but life will be a slavish bummer if you are not willing to forgo being really lean while trying to get bigger.
I keep about a one inch soft pinch in my midsection as my standard. Yous may be more, there’s no way to know beforehand. I gain fine while at that body fat level and don’t see any benefit from allowing myself to get any fatter. However I’m a lot older than you and have other considerations. If I were younger I may loosen that up some, maybe not I’ll never know.
This whole deal is not that complicated and becomes second nature once you develop the habits. When you see yourself getting bigger and stronger don’t be surprised if you find yourself wanting more.
I hope I didn’t just waste all this typing for the 200th time.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
El_Won_foolio wrote:
I appreciate that so many of you have taken concern to this thread, but when it comes to what I need to put into my body, Im as naive as they come. If anyone has a link to an article about how to read food labels and what to look for that would be insanely helpful.
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=640350
This link has all you need to know to get started. The article I suggested is the very first diet link. No food labels(that I remember) in there, but you’ll figure out that most of the best foods don’t have ingredients lists :)[/quote]
Yes, Berardi’s 7 habits are tough to argue with and are a no lose outline and a great framework to build on.