Prison Should Be…

I was at a bar checking out my buddies band, having a good time and all, and start talking to a woman. She sits fown with us, we’re pouring beers, everything is great.

Then this guy comes up to me and starts screaming in my face, calling her names, and wanting to fight.

So I knocked him out and kinda jackhammered his face in.

Turns out, she was his girlfriend. There are women who just love that kind of stuff. Not getting their boyfriends face pounded in, but stirring up trouble and “excitement”.

An old buddy of mine did kill another guy over a woman. She was constantly playing both ends for the middle, which culminated in him driving over to “rescue” her, seeing other guy (her husband) in front of the house and running him over with his truck.

After serving a few years for vehicular manslaughter he couldn’t live with himself and ended it.

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The point of prison, to me, is separating threats to society from society.

I don’t understand using it like a “time out” lesson for adults with a little discussion at the end, then “now go play again but don’t let me catch you….”

I don’t have a problem with evaluating crimes for damage or intent of inflicted damage as part of a separation assessment, but would like to see more uniformity in assessed penalties for like crimes.

I also don’t have a problem with escalation through a strike system considering a lack of change in threat over time as the goal for prison isn’t reforming these people but separating them.

Leave reform to the shrinks, as a private endeavor undertaken by the criminals themselves should they choose to want to be better. And if they don’t, escalate them through the consequences of their own actions. They’re free thinking adults after all.

Once in prison and regarding the experience itself, I don’t agree with setting up a tortured experience, however I think the absolute bare necessities are all they should be entitled to. Pretty sure this is how it already is though.

So remove the publicly funded remediation gamut and whatever else, feed them enough to survive and let them live their lives, but separated. And give more uniformity to sentencing for similar or like crimes.

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Good post.

A story my in law told me is how all the guards just don’t do the job. It’s so easy for them to just say f-you to a criminal who asks for socks and underwear.

He told me his goal was to make sure they had the basic needs socks underwear and a meal.

He told me there were guys who didn’t have socks or underwear for a long time and he caught inmates stealing other inmates only food and guards don’t care.

Yeah. You can see that everywhere, but it can get much worse in a restricted environment.

Some guys don’t want “enough”. They want more.

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Oh yes! These are wild stories but unsurprising and not so uncommon. As I said in a previous post, in The Case for Father Custody, Dr. Daniel Amneus called female promiscuity and male violence Siamese twins. I agree with that.

I don’t want to derail this thread with personal stuff too much, but being we’re on this subtopic of trouble making (which I’ve avoided as I will explain) and female excitement, I’ll indulge a little.

When I was nineteen years old, I stopped by the bakery two blocks from my apartment and the new across-the-street neighbor was working there. She said, “You live across the street.” So I just blurted out, “Yeah, how about we hang out some time?” She gave me her number. We went out on a date the next Friday. The next day she came over and like a typical guy thinking with his sausage, I did the hanky panky with this women I hardly knew. Days later some guy called my apartment (pre-cellphone late 90’s), my mom answered, and handed me the phone. Some guy started screaming that I screwed his “girlfriend” and other garbled words I couldn’t understand. When he stopped screaming, I said, “OK,” and hung up. I didn’t even know she had a “boyfriend”. Who screws some guy while with another, tells him about it, and gives him the other guy’s phone number to yell at him?

In my senior year of high school, spring of 1997, a girl who I went to school with since Kindergarten invited me over her house. She was popular and pretty and because I considered myself a “regular” guy (that is, I thought I was lower in SMV because of the poor self image I had back then), I figured I’d go over and just hang. She had an older “bf” I knew who I believed was the type to confront me. She was wearing biker shorts and started to primp herself in front of her mirror while doing a seductive jig as I was relaxed on her bed. Thinking with the small head again, I started fooling around with her and midway I thought, “she has a bf.” I said, “We gotta stop" and I soon left. Days later she said on the phone “I wasn’t going to stop you”. I said to myself, “Wtf?”

In another case, on my first day of orientation for college I wound up hanging out with a pretty, gym-bodied blonde all day and night. In the wee hours of the night, while both of us are sitting on her bed, she said she had a “bf”. What “gf” invites some guy over to her room late at night? Once again, being a nice boy, I made no move.

Several times in my first year, I had to keep a straight face while women I knew with “bf’s” on campus would introduce me to their visiting “bf’s” from back home. We would look at each other with the silent understanding to “STFU!”

When I’ve thought about this recently, I thought it might not be considered “right,” I would have just stole the aforesaid “girlfriends” from other men! I believe one of the reasons I did not have a girlfriend until 20 years old and my good friend didn’t screw a woman until 21 was because we were playing by rules others were not! Every freaking ordinary-looking or pretty woman I met seemed to have a “boyfriend”. How the hell else would a guy get a woman if damn near every one was “taken” if not by taking one from someone else? I do however believe men should stay away from mens’ wives and serious punishment for such a move is 100 percent justified. “Gf and bf” in most cases is just clown marriage and playing house.

A real psychopath and prominent graffiti writer I went to high school with got jammed up in a love triangle with his “friend” and a woman. Like the 6’2", good-with-hands, violent drunk he was, he humiliated the shit out of the guy by demanding him to kneel down and apologize in front of a Manhattan bar.

A married secretary at an old job of mine said, “I am married, but if I want to fuck a guy, I will”.

I can go further with such stories, but it will be too much of a derail and we will wind up with a duplicated sex thread.

Stay safe frens. Honeys be wilin’ out there.

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She does!

Relevance to thread being thats how relatively normal guys can end up in prison.

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Theres a religion of peace taking over Europe youd enjoy.

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You have to consider where our modern prison system was born from. Prisons like we have are kind of new. A big building with rows or blocks of cells, a penitentiary. Where a man would serve his penance and atone for his sins was based in protestant Christianity. The idea that there is forgiveness for all and everyone can reform. The greeks and romans had prisons but it was a small scale and a usually for awaiting trial, not as punishment. The basic model we use now is only a couple hundred years old. Historically, fines, public shaming, mutilation and execution were your options. The 8th amendment clause about “cruel and unusual punishment” was based in the founders protestant faith.

That being said, the system we have today is broken. I also personally believe there are some crimes people cannot come back from.

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We did have one good idea in the history of prisons.

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Maybe so, but I think can reform and will reform are two different things. Even Christianity provides a Hell.

And this likely extends from Hammurabi’s code, pre-judeo Christian existence. I don’t agree with it myself.

I really have zero issue with our current system of separation and escalation, except that I think it makes sense to have a more uniform sentencing code than we do now, and I’d like to see less public money spent on reform and education efforts. The question for me is what quality of life prison should provide, and imo it’s low. I’m ok with private commissary but public support of prisoners, who are separated from the public due to their threat to the public, shouldn’t be much more survival need.

Unfortunately there are no more Australia’s to @Brant_Drake example, so penitentiaries make sense.

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@njord @SkyzykS @Alrightmiami19c @Brant_Drake
We are talking about punishment for criminals in America. I’m interested in your ideas about the reasons for sheer number of lawbreakers we have in America ifyou have interest in that side of this discussion. Like, why does “the best country on earth” have the biggest prison population? Isn’t that incongruent? Why do we have cities that were once fine places to live in but are now crime-ridden places people don’t want to go to or to get out of?

I think there are a lot of factors, however taking an objective look at crime statistics will land on race.

Not sure if it’s a subculture thing, a product of eugenics or both.

There is also the “melting pot” component. Lots of cultures here with different views vs homogeneity in outlook.

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Burn

???

Smv?

I see… the correct way to go about this from a moral standpoint is to be a dirtbag and not care. TONS of girls my age love that so it must be the right thing to do.

Criminal mistake…. Prison for that.

Exactly! The right thing…. For her…. to do here is not tell the boyfriend. Then he can get married and she can divorce him after cheating on him… and hopefully the judge rewards thst fantastic mom full custody of the kids and half the man’s assets

Idk lots of people cheat even in commuted relationships. My cousin broke up with his fiancée right before the wedding after finding her in his bed with another guy

She would have stayed with him (and kept cheating on him). The sustainability of a long term partner provides closure “I can always go back to him and feel secure/provided for”…. Even if I’m screwing around on the side

Main guy

Side dudes

Same thing for men who are serial womanizers… some will have a gf but they’ll have side chicks

You might have been side dude number 10384277. Unless did they say “I’ll dump my bf for you and only you”.

Doesn’t matter… a relationship is a relationship if you’re putting a label on it there is an implied contract “you belong to me… I belong to you” outside of “open relationships” that generally always favor the women due to dynamics involving sexual market and those open relationships fail the vast, vast majority of the time.

There’s a guy on Instagram who is a horror writer and diagnosed psychopath. Admittedly he is good looking in an alt-goth type way but the women FROTH over him despite him making it VERY clear “I’m dangerous… I’m a psychopath, I have violent tendencies and four baby mamas who wants to be my next one”

And hundreds of thousands of women…. Froth over him (clearly damaged women mind you… I made a comment about how the women who liked him clearly had daddy issues/were damaged and the guy actually liked my comment and responded lol)

Hysterical

What’s her number? I need it so I can upload it onto a database of cheating women to warn all future men!!!

America has mandatory minimums for crimes other countries consider misdemeanors or inconsequential

Take having a fake ID

In Australia if a 16-17 year old is caught with a fake trying to enter a club or buy beer the ID is taken, cut in half and thrown out… end of story

In America this is a felony my cousin was prosecuted for

I can go on… America is quicker to put people away

HOWEVER there’s also a disproportionately higher rate of violent crime BUT most prisoners are not in for violent crime

Theyre in for non violent crimes that often wouldn’t lead to imprisonment overseas

Which is why I like what you said re prisons should be about removing threats from society… thst and system of escalation

There is huge variability behind criminal behaviour

Say you are caught… I don’t know… tax fraud… are you a family man trying to make ends meet in todays times where the cost of living is rising so you fudge a few numbers or are you a billionaire paying 0% tax and setting up offshore bank accounts and hiding assets?

Clearly the two should be dealt with differently

Caught selling drugs?

Is it a high schooler selling dime bags or are you an internationally known fentanyl kingpin raking in millions off the destruction of American communities? Let the former off with a stern warning and a fine… life in prison for the latter… Even death penalty is probably appropriate

It varies by state and the specific crime is forgery.

Sexual market value, though no one used the term then.

A mistake of a different sort: lack of nooky. :grinning_face:

Well, right. That’s what I thought my peers meant in most cases, though what a significant chunk around me weren’t acting in accordance with. My close friend I mentioned, all three of his successive “gf’s”, with the final one being his wife, were met while they had “bf’s”. Hence I refer to many, certainly not all, relationships, as clown marriages. The partners have one foot in the market and one foot out. One’s committed and the other isn’t with many cases having the man not committed with the woman frittering away her 20s hoping to marry and have kids.

Then there are those who get buzzes from of cheating, including “the monogamous sex,” women.

Anyway, I don’t want to derail further. If this moves to one of the sexuality threads, I might continue there.

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I still can’t believe they charted at number one numerous times

These guys have seen a bit of resurgence over the past year or so

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Agreed. I had fake IDs and if caught they were usually just confiscated by the adult who found out. In Texas, but a long time ago.

I don’t agree with prison for victimless crimes. This doesn’t exclude all non violent crimes. And I do believe sentencing should be commensurate to damage done. I think the disagreements will be in defining these lines.

Violent crimes are certainly threatening to society, and I don’t know the statistics if you eliminate victimless crimes (consensual drug deals, prostitution et cetera) however I would imagine they carry a lot of weight in the equation.

I disagree. Tax fraud at scale is still tax fraud.

I think severity in penalty is layered in to impact currently. What I’m discussing is one kid selling dime bags getting probation vs another dime bag kid getting years in prison.

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Hey now, I will fight you over Limp Bizkit.

It’s kind of funny that they are now categorized as “millenial dad rock.”

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What’s a victimless crime?

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