Recreational drug use and sex work come to mind.
I would argue prostitutes, calling them sex workers doesn’t change what they are, are victims. What has to happen to a girl or young woman to make them “choose” to be a human sex toy.
Drug use? Where do drugs come from? Drug dealers destroy communities.
No one wants drug dealers and hookers in their neighborhoods. You might as well let people defecate on your front yard.
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A couple examples I offered were consensual prostitution and drug dealing.
They are not victimless. You wouldn’t want hookers or dealers doing their business in front of your home. And hookers are victims who are taken advantage of by men.
There’s a whole segment of the population in which going to prison is totally normal. The impoverished, plagued with dysfunction.
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Where are you getting this from? The majority are for violent crimes.
You’re skipping context to make a point again.
I added context.
He’s confusing federal prison with state prison.
They are not “bad”
Guilty pleasure type material
But they are NOT “number 1” and never should have been number one on the billboards
Sorta like papa roach… papa roach can be pretty good at times depending on the song, but they’re no linkin park…. No slayer…. No Metallica etc
Rollin is probably my favourite bizkit song after the release of the TV series “devil May cry”.
Have you ever been through opiate withdrawl by chance?
I have… and through legit prescription! Not even illicit use or abuse
I can see how, if I had unlimited supply and was an addict one would lose all semblance of self control and spend everything to get more
I mean my doses were reasonably high adter sort of back to back major surgery and even then I find addicts are taking 10-1000x more than I was taking
I can’t imagine how uncomfortable detox would be for them
At which point I don’t think fent can be compared to dealing softer stuff like pot thst isn’t physically addictive
I don’t think dealing heroin or fentanyl is victimless… I used to… but not anymore.. at that point the drugs re wire reward centers in your brain and you start to lose control (not victimless anymore) at which point dealers can do almost anything they want (including asking for sex in exchange for drugs if you are a young woman) and they’ll say yes
I don’t like requiem for a dream because as scary as it is… it’s hyperbolic… but the one realistic part of the film (beyond the abscess scene and the guy losing his arm… unrealistic… as just drain the abscess… and take antibiotics) is its portrayal of opiate addiction/what the guys gf does to get more during a drought culminating in sex for drugs, eventually participating in live sex shows
This movie is actually quite disturbing. I’ve heard similar things about crack cocaine.
In principle I agree… but it depends on the substance. If we are talking about something that literallt re wires your brain chemistry to such a degree you physically lose control I’ve come to disagree.
A lot of people make statements like “oh cigarettes are more addictive than opiates” and I think “oh come on… I’ve never had an issue with not smoking… and I have smoked cigarettes! I still smoke like 10-20 of them every single year! You don’t ‘detox from nicotine’”
Nicotine is legal despite cigarettes being deadly because the impact of an addiction hinges on the user and not everyone around the user.
Alcohol is the one I find the strangest… as problem drinking amongst otherwise well to do adults is very, very common and it does destroy families and communities… but it’s also a social lubricant, some meet their wives at bars under the influence (not unheard of). For all the damage it has done to society… there is some good
I can’t say the same for heroin outside of very limited medicinal context (it’s prescribed as painkiller in the UK for instance)
Prostitution? Ehhh depends how it’s done
In Australia there is almost no pimping, prostitutes get a license from the government, can become independent in their escorting services (not attached to a provider) and are free to report sexual harassment/assault… some actually choose this lifestyle because they like sex and only have to work 2-4 hours per week to make a living
Others do it to pay off university bills… or because they feel they have no choice with Aussie cities becoming some of the most unaffordable, uninhabitable, dystopian places on the planet. But the “exploitation factor” is lessened
At the same time it will always be a seedy industry and if a good looking girl wants to pimp herself out (and isn’t clearly under the influence during regular checkups) to pay off debts associated with a drug addiction no one will stop her aside from shame/stigma attached to escorting… and if you are addicted to meth or heroin shame and stigma won’t deter you…
I can drive along my local freeway and stop at one of numerous brothels near the freeway if I wanted to… it’s totally legal
It gives lonely men an outlet (whereas they might otherwise commit a crime or something)… so once again with prostitution I agree in essence but it depends on the context
I’ll amend my comment to victimless or self-victimizing crimes.
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I had a chance to know the person first hand whose son was so wrapped up in crack that the father resulted to a low level embezzling that got him fired from his career job. I know he had a choice to do the right thing and allow his son to face the consequences of his drug habit instead of saving him to only get in deeper. Should we consider the drug addict’s parents victims?
Definitely. Closest always get hurt the most.
Right
Not in the context of prosecuting the guy who sold the crack to a willing buyer.
Should the parents be jailed for failing their children?
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I wouldn’t think so, but the father managed to lose his job and maybe his pension too (I never heard whether they stripped him of his pension along with being fired.) [This is where I worked for 41 years.] A year in jail would be a bargain by comparison.
My point is framing context. The father in your scenario is the “victim” of an addict for a son, but I don’t agree this means the person selling him the drug should be in prison. His kid made a choice. I don’t think the kid should be in prison either. Or the father, for the record.
I knew a kid who belly flopped in to a wading pool at a college party to be funny many years ago. He broke his neck somehow. Pretty sure we bought the thing at a Walmart. I don’t believe the Walton family should be prosecuted for enabling a risky personal decision to be made.
I understand your emotion but in principle I don’t believe in regulating personal choice and responsibility out of existence, or shifting the responsibility of poor self-management to others.
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A victim nonetheless, albeit from making a very poor choice. Had his son not been addicted, the father would not have resorted to embezzlement (I honestly believe that.) Some parents give it all to “help” their children, even to the extent of resorting to crime.
Definitely not the first time I’ve heard similar stories. I used to attend Al-Anon family groups to address the codependent element of my personality. There are people who would gladly trade their life and anything in the world to see their kid become healthy and break free from addiction.
Yeah, it’s not like drug dealers bring violence to poor communities. They plant trees and flowers.