Prison Should Be…

So this topic seems to populate on T-Nation often these days. As a side note, it’s a little ironic considering one of the most popular boards here used to be “Sex and the Male Animal”, but maybe it was just a different time.

What, specifically, indicates a character flaw? And defined against what backdrop?

A male with a cock.

I don’t want to be rudely judgmental, and that’s not my intent here, but is it possible considering your spectrum admission that you have the skewed view of human contact, sensuality and sexuality?

Is sex really mutually exclusive with crazy though?

Lots of people do. Usually religious people, which is their prerogative. Are you in this camp or is just because you heard your roommate banging out women in scenarios that didn’t end in marriage and it scarred you?

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I’m going to disagree with this puritanical blanket statement.

That’s up to you, but don’t moralize your preferences.

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Here is a TEDx talk concerning the German prison and justice system. I will not give it away. Give it a look and see what you think. Remember, I have not taken a side one way or the other. I just found this very interesting.

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I’ll create a new thread tomorrow about this so people I can respond more in depth

Only the best for those indviduals.

I don’t know. Do you tell her? I’ve never paid to play but there’s plenty of sexual history detail I haven’t shared with my wife. I’ve spent money on dates with the explicit intent of ending in sex.

I’d say it’s an interesting can of worms.

Do you anticipate this woman would be totally forthcoming and detailed about her history? Do you want her to be?

That was super interesting, @Friedrich! It took me all day to watch it bit by bit, but it was worth it.

Why? Did you know your significant other when you transacted for love? Were you dating? Engaged? I am all for honesty, but in such a hypothetical situation, it happened before you and your significant knew each other existed.

I think we often have a harder time forgiving ourselves.

Remember the immortal words of Bruce Rivers: No Self Snitchin’!

One of the fun verses in the Bible:
Micah 7:5 KJV: Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom

My biggest question is, what do they do with their Bundys and Ridgeways?

So basically let sleeping dogs lie?

I know I have typed this before. I have been attached to my wife for 40 years. Thirty eight years married. The first time we doinked was on the 30th+ floor in the San Francisco Hilton, on our wedding night. We were both raised in a religion that shamed premarital sex. I truly thought growing up, if I had sex before I married The Great Architect Himself would come down and strike me dead. I cannot say how my high school or early college years would have been different? But I do think, without the rules we would have gone at it on our first date. Probably would would have moved in together.

Do I consider the monkish lifestyle amazing? No, not really. Have I spent decades believing it has made me morally superior? Not at all. It was what it was. Do I think my hs and college friends who were very active (including trips to the famous Mustang Ranch) makes them deviants? I could never drop that judgement on them. So no. They were horny dudes who were not tied up with religious guilt.

Were my wife and I better for our abstinence? I am not sure? It took probably 5-10 years of being married before we could cut loose in the bedroom (usually hotel room)and not feel guilty. I know, strange.

Relationships are hard enough. Looking back, and thinking now, the physical attraction part should not be handicapped or held hostage by someone else’s morality guilt trip.

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Probably a matter of personal choice and preference to your point of not being handicapped by another’s morality. Nobody can answer the “what if” crystal ball questions.

I think the biggest question is “are you happy?”

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I said it was a fun verse. But it should be read and studied in context of the surrounding verses. Micah 7:2 helps with the context. God is having Micah tell the nation of Israel their state that God sees them. “The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.” Samson was in such an environment and should have kept his mouth shut while lying with Delilah.

It is fun IMO, because there is some truth in not burdening your spouse with your guilt. Are you sharing your past to strengthen the marriage bond, or are you wanting to ease your conscience. But it is a very complex issue.

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Very good point.

In my case, I told my wife because she asked. She didn’t like my answer. But then again, if there is nothing wrong with sexual debauchery and promuscuity, both of which I indulged in to a modest degree, what would be the problem? It’s casual and “just sex”. Why would our wives judge us negatively and get upset if it’s “just sex”?

Some women might not like such a past, but it reminds them that their mate is desirable. They might feel upset, but it beats being with a man being perceived as undesirable. Unfortunately, when people don’t get married early, these sorts of debacles arise.

I actually am the one who has discussed sexual revolution and sexual regulation here. It appears some, when discussing this topic, pay no attention to what happens from sex, viz., where babies come from and the serious social problems from disregulation that I’ve discussed ad nauseum, in addition to torts and laws that have been made up after people “liberated” themselves (“sexual harassment,” “stalking,” and false allegations) and sick games like “baby trapping”. And I do agree with Dr. Daniel Amneus that female promiscuity and male violence are Siamese twins.

And with that said, in the environment of the past 60 or so years, expecting people not to have sex before marriage is a fool’s errand, and in the word’s of someone else, “those who wait for marriage will be waiting forever.” Never would I expect a young man to do that, and abstaining in an environment like this, or just not having luck in getting a woman, can leave him womanless because women don’t like womanless men. Even I was asked out by a coworker the week I got engaged.

Other points I’ve made here: 1) Nothing makes men angrier than lack of women. 2) No matter what good is going on in a man’s life, he will feel like shit without affection from a woman.

Pretty much every man knows this deep down. Hence why even the biggest poon hounds who’ve had much sex go into panic mode in a short “dry spell”.

So I personally don’t negatively judge men who want some temporary company from women here and there when unmarried or without a “long-term” mate. But there is nuance and degree in such activity. But I will judge men who don’t stick with the mothers of their children, even if that woman was made a mother from one-night stands. Before the “double standard”–men being envied for being “Mack Daddies,” “players”–such men were dealt wiht severely precisely because people didn’t want to bear the brunt of the problems their feral offspring caused. Men who ran around screwing young women without marrying one or screwing others’ wives could be lynched, have legal sanctions placed on them, or have their employment removed.

Much discussion about sex doesn’t extend beyond the act. That is, they don’t extend to the social and emotional consequences of it, good or bad.

Why not? You can judge people all you like, and in many cases it’s advisable.

I am (happy). A friend of mine, who lived the same lifestyle, when I told him I felt cheated in some ways (that is all I stated), knew exactly what I was telling him and he had the same sentiments.

Yes, and I am only referring to my own experience being raised in a culture where often times sex was alluded to as being “filthy” and if you engaged in sex outside of marriage you in some way soiled yourself permanently. So much for repentance and forgiveness. I am only sharing the experience my wife and I went through our first 5-10 years of marriage, before we finally realized what we did in the privacy of our relationship/bedroom was not the business of hypervigilant religious leaders. We were even taught at times couples should not be having sex for pleasurable experiences between themselves, but to first and foremost have children. Well, we had children, but we also saw our relationship evolve into a close and physical marriage. I will leave it at that. But it took time. In regards to my friends who discovered sex in high school and before marriage, again, I do not judge them. Nor do I think back and slam the young ladies they were involved with. Aside from me being on the sidelines, we were thin, tan and fit. And both men and women showed it off. The mantra, “Lift weights and look good naked” was alive and well.

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Ah. Well I don’t feel guilty. I just want to protect her from unnecessary jealousy. A bit of a different spin than biblical self-loathing and exogenous redemption from it but I understand your point.

Just another variable of a complex situation