Bumping this up for Monday the 25th.
Might as well get my question in first.
What diet do you recommend for an athlete (multi-sport - rugby and lacrosse) looking to enhance athletic performance. Is Dr Berardis Don’t Diet and Massive Eating the answer to all questions.
And the wonderful open question would u recommend for an athlete looking to increase maximal strength WSSB by Mr De Franco (the second one which includes strongman training) or the more weight room orientated Designer Athletes by Mike Robertson.
Thank You in advance, Peadar Coyle
Hello Eric. I have written to you once before about ISSN. This time I have a question about powerlifting. I am not competitive yet but I have been following a WSB program for the past year and half. I was involved in bodybuilding training prior to this.
The first half of this powerlifting training period was a program similar to the one posted by Joe Defranco. My gains in muscle and stength seemed to go through the roof in a very short time on that program. After I thought I had enough muscle and proper form and attended an Elite Fitness Seminar, I started a regular WSB program. I have been doing good on it. I typically never do more than 5 exercises per workout and I really do not feel overtained at all.
My question is in regards to the term “deload.” Since I train recreationally rather than competitively (yet), I would like to know whether a deloading period is necessary. Secondly, how does one deload? I mean, usually what I do if I am feeling smashed after a certain time of working, I just leave the gym.
For example, there has been about two times where I simply went crazy on ME day and could not really do more than two assistance exercises so I left the gym. I go by feel since that is what cybernetic periodization is all about, using your head and how you feel. Also can you give me an example of how one deloads? I was thinking I should deload for my self testing days (I guess you can say my little competition dates for myself for measuring progress).
And also, does deloading just refer to a reduction in sets or exercises or both? For example, how would one deload from this type of program?:
Day 1: ME Bench
1)ME Bench press variation
2) Tricep exercise 3-5 sets
3) Lat exercise 3-5 sets (row)
4) Upper back exercise 3-5 sets
Day 2: DE Squat/Deadlift
- DE Squat
- DE deadlift
- Low back exercise
- Hamstring exercise
- Ab exercise
Day 3: DE Bench
- DE Bench
- Exercise for bench press lockout (ie: Rack lockout or 5 board press)
- Exercise for chest and shoulders (ie: dumbell bench press or military press)
- Lat exercise (chinup variation)
Day 4: ME Squat/Deadlift day
- ME Squat or deadlift variation
- One leg exercise (lunge or squat variation)
- Hamstring exercise
- Ab exercise
I typically go by how the shoulder itself looks and how an athlete performs the given exercise. I just don’t think that you can relate the rowing numbers to the benching numbers because it’s pretty easy to cheat on bent-over rows and partially deadlift the bar up. Plus, with bent-over rows, there are only two points of surface contact, whereas with the bench, there are five. As a result, stability is completely different.
Good question!
[quote]bigTR wrote:
EC,
I read your debunking exercise myths article about overhead pressing. Is there a bench mark for how much you can pull (row) vs. push (bench) to determine a muscular imbalance in your shoulder- internally or externally rotated? Or is this something you can tell by looking at the shoulder itself? Thanks a lot,
TR[/quote]
Medial patellar tracking is very rare and not a likely cause of knee problems. Rather than just not being there, you may just have high insertions (as I do). In this scenario, the VMO looks much bigger relatively because the muscle bellies of the two muscles tend to fall in different positions (VMO is more distal, while the vastus lateralis is more proximal).
You seem to be on the right track with your corrective programming; it could just be a matter of time until everything shakes free. Or, you could be dealing with some factor that won’t respond to treatment (e.g. ligament tear, condylar lesion, meniscal tear, arthritis); how long has this been a problem, and have you seen a sports orthopedist?
Also, it didn’t seem like you were paying much attention to stretching, so you definitely want to work on the ITB/TFL, quads, hamstrings, and iliopsoas complex.
Best of luck!
[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
Question - about fixing knee joint problems…
How do i get the lateral muscle in my leg to activate - it seems like my VMO is defined, but the lateral part of my quad is just not there. I’m not looking to make my legs super large, but just to equalize the two sides.
Other than that I have worked my hamstring to quad ratio so it has been more balanced and my knees have gotten into better shape - very little irritation. Yet there is still some. Wondering if there is anythign else to do besides Glute activation and hamstring strengthening for the legs. I have also done abductor adductor work and do single leg lifts once in a while to work the stabalizers.[/quote]
[quote]Get Lifted wrote:
Yes, I see your point. However, you may be able to adapt to the new weight in time… Which could be a good thing if you can control it? I don’t know how much we really can prepare for the hell that’s about to occur anyway without turning into lance armstrong. LOL[/quote]
Exactly. Check out the thread on strength and conditioning on the main page to get a little more background on this; there’s some good information being thrown around.
[quote]Hey, You know what… All this acceleration and deacceleration is cool and I remember I asked you awhile ago if it was possible for you to right an article on how to improve these things… I think a lot of the athletes on this site would benefit from a program you could write in an article.(and I don’t think it has been done before… not much speed stuff on this site) It seems appropriate given the time frame and time of year in the US at least.
So what can I do with my ankles and how about an article about speed and acceleration and cutting and deacceleration. Side to side stuff. It would be the first on this site for sure!
-Get Lifted
[/quote]
It might already be in the works. Kelly Baggett and I have been doing some brainstorming for several months now, but we’ve both been so swamped that there hasn’t been time to finish it up. We’ll get cracking on it soon, though.
[quote]Springcoil wrote:
Might as well get my question in first.
What diet do you recommend for an athlete (multi-sport - rugby and lacrosse) looking to enhance athletic performance. Is Dr Berardis Don’t Diet and Massive Eating the answer to all questions.[/quote]
It’s definitely a great start! You definitely have to fit the diet to the athlete, so I’d need to know a bit more about what physique changes you’re looking for in order to enhance performance (i.e. muscle mass gain, fat loss). JB’s stuff is very good, though.
[quote]And the wonderful open question would u recommend for an athlete looking to increase maximal strength WSSB by Mr De Franco (the second one which includes strongman training) or the more weight room orientated Designer Athletes by Mike Robertson.
Thank You in advance, Peadar Coyle[/quote]
I think that if you really look at it closely, you’ll find that there isn’t much difference other than the fact that most athletes don’t have access to strongman implements. Both guys do a good job of attending to the weight room portion of training for athletic performance, and both would tell you that the weight room is only one tip of the iceberg when it comes to making someone a better athlete.
[quote]BradleyGrunner wrote:
My question is in regards to the term “deload.” Since I train recreationally rather than competitively (yet), I would like to know whether a deloading period is necessary.[/quote]
DEFINITELY. For most people, true supercompensation takes 7-17 days. The more trained you are, the longer it takes. The best recommendation I can give you is to enter a competition; it’s the only way to learn to truly appreciate supercompensation.
It depends on the athlete’s training. most people will be fine maintaining intensity and just dropping volume, as you’re much more likely to overtrain on volume than you are on intensity. However, some (myself included) need to drop intensity during deloads as well. Exercise selection also plays into this.
I agree that cybernetic periodization is valuable, but I still think it’s important to have a plan going in to a session. There are times when you need to know to leave some in the tank even though you feel good. For instance, I took my last relatively heavy lower body day 20 days out from my upcoming meet. I just took 465 on the squat and 495 on the deadlift and called it there; I probably had another 150+ pounds in me between the two lifts.
Either/or…and you might even switch to less challenging exercises and/or drop intensity.
[quote]For example, how would one deload from this type of program?:
Day 1: ME Bench
1)ME Bench press variation
2) Tricep exercise 3-5 sets
3) Lat exercise 3-5 sets (row)
4) Upper back exercise 3-5 sets
Day 2: DE Squat/Deadlift
- DE Squat
- DE deadlift
- Low back exercise
- Hamstring exercise
- Ab exercise
Day 3: DE Bench
- DE Bench
- Exercise for bench press lockout (ie: Rack lockout or 5 board press)
- Exercise for chest and shoulders (ie: dumbell bench press or military press)
- Lat exercise (chinup variation)
Day 4: ME Squat/Deadlift day
- ME Squat or deadlift variation
- One leg exercise (lunge or squat variation)
- Hamstring exercise
- Ab exercise[/quote]
Simply dropping a few sets is one option, and you could also reduce the number of reps per set. You might also can the direct hamstring work and just allow the main movement to take care of that. You could swap exercises so that you’re doing something less challenging but still getting the blood flowing and imposing a training stimulus. You could drop your ME movement altogether.
TC has an article from me from a while back on this, so I can’t give away all the details! 
PS - Add in more rowing.
EC assuming someone has no biomechanical and anatomy base but wants to learn alittle more then the basics what would you advise? Books? obviously aside from being just a research freak
Part 2. What are you thoughts on shoulder flexion movements for basketball players? I heard alot of “coaches” recommend this but I’m saying to myself, this movemet happens hundreds of time on game day do you really need to train it?
Hey Cressey!
Today i was talking about football and weightlifting with this guy that sits next to me in Class and when he asked me how old i was and i replied “15” he said “WHAT?! you shouldn’t be lifting until you’re at least 16!”
Now i distinctly remember reading on these forums a similar debate in which it was concluced that weightlifting was fine for younger children and would in fact increase bone density or something which would benefit the youngsters.
So I told him that i would bring in sources from Medical Journals and the likes to prove to him, and he said he would do the same. I am hoping the guys with the PHD’s can hook me up here with some sources and give me a good explanation i can give him on Wednesday when we have class again. (By the way, this guy is about 25 and plays college football).
So… sources/explanations greatly appreciated!
-M
[quote]bigpump23 wrote:
EC assuming someone has no biomechanical and anatomy base but wants to learn alittle more then the basics what would you advise? Books? obviously aside from being just a research freak[/quote]
Books, videos, and seminars are great, but the single-best thing you could possibly do is contact a local university and see if you could get in on a gross anatomy class. It’s not likely that they’ll let you, but it’ll definitely change your perspective.
Yes, you do need to train the movement, but it’s best done as part of compound movements (benching variations and, when a player has healthy shoulders, overhead pressing). Shoulder flexion is more important than in just shooting and passing; big men need it in the post to defend, and you also need endurance of the delts to keep your arms up on defense (more of an issue than you might think).
Here’s a post I made a while back on the “T-Kids Exercise and Diet” thread.Faigenbaum is the authority on resistance training in children.
Pearson, D Faigenbaum, A, Conley, M, Kraemer, WJ. The National Strength and Conditioning Association’s Basic Guidelines for the Resistance Training of Athletes. 2000. Natl. Strength Cond. Assoc. J. 22:(4)14-27.
Resistance Training for Children
Even with the large number of children participating in youth sports, many are not conditioning their bodies for the physical demands and rigors of the sport. If a child is capable of participating in a youth sport, she or he is capable of participating in a resistance-training program designed to condition the body to meet the demands of the sport and help prevent sport-related injuries. It was previously believed that resistance training-induced strength gains during preadolescence (defined as a period of time before the development of secondary sex characteristics) were not possible because of insufficient concentrations of circulating androgens (2). However, current findings clearly indicate that children can significantly increase their strength above and beyond what is accounted for by growth and maturation, provided that the resistance-training program is of sufficient duration and intensity (8, 14, 16, 58, 71). Strength gains of roughly 40% have been observed in children following short-term (8?12 weeks) resistance-training programs, although gains of up to 74% have been reported (15). Further, positive changes in motor fitness skills, sports performance, and selected health-related measures have also been observed in resistance-trained youths (8, 14, 58). Interestingly, preliminary evidence indicates that resistance training may also increase a child’s resistance to sports-related injuries (5).
One of the traditional concerns associated with youth resistance training is the potential for injury to the epiphyseal plate or growth cartilage. Although epiphyseal plate fractures have been reported in young weight trainers, most of these injuries involved improper lifting techniques or the performance of heavy, overhead lifts in unsupervised settings. An epiphyseal plate fracture has not been reported in any prospective youth resistance-training study that was appropriately designed and competently supervised. If children are taught how to resistance train properly (e.g., adequate warm-up, correct technique, and a gradual progression of training loads) and if close and competent adult supervision is present, it seems that the risk of an epiphyseal plate fracture while strength training is minimal. In general, it appears that the risks associated with youth resistance training are not any greater than those in other sports and recreational activities in which children regularly participate (40). However, the potential for a serious injury is possible if youth guidelines and safety precautions are not followed.
The goal of youth resistance-training programs should not be limited to increasing muscular strength but should also include teaching children about their bodies, promoting injury prevention strategies, and providing a stimulating program that gives children a more positive attitude toward resistance training and exercise in general.
When introducing children to resistance training, it is always better to underestimate their physical abilities and gradually increase the volume and intensity of training than to overshoot their abilities and potentially risk an injury. There is no minimum age requirement for participation in a youth resistance-training program; however, all participants should have the emotional maturity to accept and follow directions and should understand the risks and benefits associated with resistance training. A medical examination is recommended for children with known or suspected health problems; however, it is not mandatory for apparently healthy children.
A variety of resistance-training programs have been developed for children, and different types of equipment have been safely and effectively used in these programs (14, 58). Although extra pads and boards can be used to modify some types of adult equipment, child-size resistance-training equipment is now available and has proven to be a viable alternative to adult-sized machines. Free weights, elastic tubing, and body weight-resisted exercises can also be used. Although youth resistance training has the potential to be a pleasurable and valuable experience, it should be only one part of a total conditioning program that also includes cardiorespiratory, flexibility, and agility exercises.
Typically, children should participate in a periodized program using loads that will allow a 6- to 12-repetition range. In addition, programs are typically lower in volume and may be performed using a lower frequency (2?3 days per week) but can adhere to many of the same principles as adult resistance-training programs. It is important that youth resistance exercise-training programs do not attempt to just implement adult programs because the physiological stress will be inappropriate (14, 58).
[quote]sinnaman18 wrote:
Hey Cressey!
Today i was talking about football and weightlifting with this guy that sits next to me in Class and when he asked me how old i was and i replied “15” he said “WHAT?! you shouldn’t be lifting until you’re at least 16!”
Now i distinctly remember reading on these forums a similar debate in which it was concluced that weightlifting was fine for younger children and would in fact increase bone density or something which would benefit the youngsters.
So I told him that i would bring in sources from Medical Journals and the likes to prove to him, and he said he would do the same. I am hoping the guys with the PHD’s can hook me up here with some sources and give me a good explanation i can give him on Wednesday when we have class again. (By the way, this guy is about 25 and plays college football).
So… sources/explanations greatly appreciated!
-M [/quote]
The biggest thing with resistance training in children is adequate supervision. Kids lift things all the time; you just need to teach them proper technique and not force heavy weights onto them too soon. Chronological age doesn’t say much; developmental age - both physical and psychological - is much more important.
Eric,
DO feel there are any good sources for post rehab information such as books and or seminars? IF so, could you recomend something.
Thanks
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Part 2. What are you thoughts on shoulder flexion movements for basketball players? I heard alot of “coaches” recommend this but I’m saying to myself, this movemet happens hundreds of time on game day do you really need to train it?
Yes, you do need to train the movement, but it’s best done as part of compound movements (benching variations and, when a player has healthy shoulders, overhead pressing). Shoulder flexion is more important than in just shooting and passing; big men need it in the post to defend, and you also need endurance of the delts to keep your arms up on defense (more of an issue than you might think).[/quote]
no I defaintly understand after playing college bball in boston my whole life I can truely understand and appreciate that. I had a technique for rebounding, part cheat part smart that just killed my shoulder, your basicaly swimmove the person trying to bok your out but your under hook there arm and shoulder drive them back. if done correctly it just looks like your fighthing for position, but yes shoulder trainign was defaintly helpful
If resistance training is okay for children ages 6-12 with cerebral palsy, it has to be okay for healthy 13 year-olds!
[quote]Morton JF, Brownlee M, McFadyen AK. The effects of progressive resistance training for children with cerebral palsy. Clin Rehabil. 2005 May;19(3):283-9.
OBJECTIVES: To investigate the effects of progressive resistance training of quadriceps and hamstrings muscles in children with cerebral palsy (CP). DESIGN: Pilot study using a repeated measures design with measurements at baseline, immediately after six weeks training then at four-week follow-up. SETTING: The project was undertaken within the physiotherapy department of two special schools in Glasgow. SUBJECTS: A convenience sample of eight children aged between six and 12 years, with hypertonic CP. INTERVENTION: The subjects participated three times per week in a six-week, progressive, free-weight, strengthening programme. OUTCOME MEASURES: Maximum isometric muscle strength and resistance to passive stretch were measured with a hand-held myometer. The Gross Motor Function Measure and a 10-metre timed walking test, were used to assess function and gait parameters respectively. RESULTS: Muscle strength increased, with the quadriceps to hamstrings strength ratio moving towards normal. These changes were retained at follow-up. Muscle tone decreased and continued to decrease to follow-up. The standing (D) and walking, running and jumping (E) goal areas of the Gross Motor Function Measure showed improvement that continued towards follow-up. Walking speed and step rate increased. CONCLUSIONS: A future large-scale randomized controlled study would be of value to substantiate these results as the small convenience sample and lack of control group limit this study. However, the finding that no adverse effect accompanied the positive outcomes in strength and function may encourage clinicians to consider resistance training alongside standard therapeutic interventions.[/quote]
EC,
Pat Myers sends his best. he just got the head assistant coaching job at bucknell so give him a shout if you get a chance.
On to my question. i jave only done conventional deads in my routines along with good mornings and RDL’s. I am currently carb cycling with a caloric deficit to lose some BF and have actually hit my PR tonight to my suprise doing deads. my question is how much will exercises like pulling from a deficit and glute/ham raises and hypers effect my deads. would these be good variation to implement next mesocycle and stop doing actual pulls?
My goal is to induce hypertrophy but still be a strong SOB.
It’s okay for kids with cystic fibrosis, too.
[quote]
Orenstein DM, Hovell MF, Mulvihill M, Keating KK, Hofstetter CR, Kelsey S, Morris K, Nixon PA. Strength vs aerobic training in children with cystic fibrosis: a randomized controlled trial. Chest. 2004 Oct;126(4):1204-14.
STUDY OBJECTIVE: Exercise has the potential to improve the ability of a patient with cystic fibrosis (CF) to cope with the physical demands of everyday life, and may improve prognosis. The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of a home-based, semi-supervised, upper-body strength-training regimen with a similarly structured aerobic training regimen. DESIGN: Data were collected during a 1-year randomized clinical trial. SETTING: Counselors conducted in-home visits with the participants once per week for the first 8 weeks followed by monthly visits for the remainder of the study. PATIENTS: Sixty-seven patients with CF, aged 8 to 18 years, participated in the trial. INTERVENTION: Participants in both exercise conditions were encouraged to exercise at least three times per week for 1 year. Each child in the aerobic group was given a stair-stepping machine, and each child in the upper-body strength training group was given an upper-body-only weight-resistance machine. MEASURES AND RESULTS: Aerobic fitness, pulmonary function, quality of life, and strength were measured at baseline, at 6 months, and at 12 months. Strength training increased the maximum weight lifted for biceps curls significantly more than aerobic training (p < 0.02). However, this differential did not remain significant after control for increase in height. Both training procedures were associated with increased strength (p < 0.002) and physical work capacity (PWC) [p < 0.033]. CONCLUSIONS: We concluded that strength and aerobic training may increase upper-body strength, and that both types of training may increase PWC for children with CF. Future trials should be conducted with no-training control subjects and larger samples to increase statistical power.[/quote]
Free Faigenbaum full-text:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/e5
Last one:
[quote]
Guy JA, Micheli LJ. Strength training for children and adolescents. J Am Acad Orthop Surg. 2001 Jan-Feb;9(1):29-36.
Strength, or resistance, training for young athletes has become one of the most popular and rapidly evolving modes of enhancing athletic performance. Early studies questioned both the safety and the effectiveness of strength training for young athletes, but current evidence indicates that both children and adolescents can increase muscular strength as a consequence of strength training. This increase in strength is largely related to the intensity and volume of loading and appears to be the result of increased neuromuscular activation and coordination, rather than muscle hypertrophy. Training-induced strength gains are largely reversible when the training is discontinued. There is no current evidence to support the misconceptions that children need androgens for strength gain or lose flexibility with training. Given proper supervision and appropriate program design, young athletes participating in resistance training can increase muscular strength and do not appear to be at any greater risk of injury than young athletes who have not undergone such training.[/quote]