Welcome to Prime Time, I’m your host Dave Barr Jr.
Tonight we’ll be addressing your questions about supplements, nutrition, and anything else the other contribs can’t answer! 
Hey David. Are you familiar with John Berardi’s No Nonsense Nutrition meal plan? I have been following it. My grandmother and mother would like to go out to eat tomorrow night. I was wondering how I go about this? Do I drop a meal from the plan to replace it with whatever I eat when I go out? If so which meal should I choose?
Davey,
Just for clarity and the benefit of all the readers, how can I best have my cake and eat it too for pre/post workout supps on the AD.
You said you’ve used 30g pre and got good results. This is my daily limit, so would perhaps 10-15 grams of glucose give a sufficient rise of insulin to maximize hyperaminoacidemia. I currently use hydrolyzed about 15 mins pre workout. About 25g worth.
Final thoughts?
DH
Continuing our discussion on the anabolic diet, it was asked what is the minimum amount of carbs (CHO’s) to stimulate insulin release.
Boy do I wish we had an answer for that one! But if you’re on a CHO restricted diet, your body will soak up blood sugar like a sponge, even in the absence of insulin.
This means that theoretically, you can consume more CHO’s and have a reduced insulin response (because CHO’s will be taken up before they can really raise blood sugar levels).
While this is cool enough, it really doesn’t answer the question. That’s because we don’t have a definitive answer. Our lab has shown that as little as ~25g sucrose will stimulate insulin post workout, but this will vary with training status and body mass.
I noticed the other day you mentioned that you’re having trouble grinding your teeth at night. I used to clench my jaw at night and it really started bothering me. My chiro recommended the Splintek night guard and it really helped. Just thought I’d mention it… Take care!
Thanks, Dave.
I’m curious at to why you choose sucrose. I’ve read that glucose preferentially fills the muscle while sucrose splits time and can spill into fat cells more easily.
Also, is it true that about 2-3g of leucine will stimulate an insulin response independent of CHO?
DH
provy, I gotta say I’m a huge fan of both the book and the plan (maybe I should be a rappist).
While I don’t presume to speak for JB, I don’t think he’d want anyone to give up all semblance of a normal life. As long as you’re following the most as closely as you can, then you’re doing well!
I wouldn’t drop a meal from the plan per se. Rather, I’d choose something from the menu that resembles (ie replaces) the meal you’d be eating at home. Unless you’re going for fast food, you should be able to do this without a problem.
Keep us updated on what you decided to have!
[quote]provy07 wrote:
Hey David. Are you familiar with John Berardi’s No Nonsense Nutrition meal plan? I have been following it. My grandmother and mother would like to go out to eat tomorrow night. I was wondering how I go about this? Do I drop a meal from the plan to replace it with whatever I eat when I go out? If so which meal should I choose?[/quote]
Dave,
thought you might like to look over one of the many emails between Doc Di Pasquale and me.
I am on a friendly basis with Dr. Di Pasquale and have conversed with him over a few years. Let me give you an answer he gave me once and then I think he may have put it on his site.
DocD: BTW recent studies have shown that in fat adapted people, carb loading leads to glycogen supercompensation
DocD:The usual rationale to taking in carbs after training is twofold. One to increase insulin levels so that it leads to an increase in the transport and incorporation into muscle and other cells - the overall result is an increase in protein synthesis that occurs in concert with hyperaminoacidemia. The second reason is to rapidly replenish muscle glycogen. These are commendable reasons to take in a load of dietary carbs after training. However this is mostly for the benefit of those who are carb adapted and is not as useful for those who are fat adapted, as in those who are on my macronutrient phase shift diets.
One of the reasons is that when you’re fat adapted insulin doesn’t do exactly the same things as when you’re carb adapted. For example insulin has less of an effect on lipogenesis and on decreasing lipolysis when you’re fat adapted than if you’re carb dependant. Also the presence of fat combined with protein and carbs does not decrease the insulin response or the absorption of amino acids and protein as it does with those who are carb adapted. As such a post training meal has different effects on insulin response and levels when you’re fat adapted. The problem with taking in a lot of carbs post training is that while it increases insulin, something that amino acids and protein can do quite well, it also decreases GH and IGF-I expression.
On the other hand using protein and amino acids to increase insulin also increases GH and IGF-I levels and provides a much more anabolic effect overall while at the same time preserving lipid oxidation post exercise. Also the use of amino acids and fat, with a minimum of carbs post workout, in someone who is fat adapted, besides leading to an increase in insulin (without as much of an adverse effect on fat metabolism - at least for our purposes) and not affecting the absorption of protein and amino acids from the GI tract, it also dramatically increases intramuscular triacylglycerol levels, which is the fat that is first used up with exercise, before blood levels of FFA.
At the same time there is also some increase in glycogen levels, both hepatic and muscular, first of all through the small amounts of carbs that are part of the MRP LoCarb, and more importantly through the gluconeogenic process. promoting mobilization of fat and simultaneously maintaining lean body mass, specifically muscle mass TCA cycle anapleurosis - changes in PDH activation and as such the production of acetyl-coA preventing catabolism of endogenous protein during exercise while maintaining high endogenous utilization of lipid is to provide a dietary source of amino acids.
I depend on the weekend carb up to supply high levels of insulin and a glycogen supercompensation. Basically you can eat what you want but you can’t overdo it because at some point you are going to go past the supercompensation of glycogen (both muscular and hepatic) and intramuscular triaglycerols and start laying down fat and almost halting lipolysis. Fat adaptation will only take you so far and if you overdo it you will increase your body fat. Low resting glycogen per se does not impair the increase in TCAI during moderate exercise. The whole world has been on the carb merrygoround so long that it?s hard to even pause the massive inertia its gained.
Most people feel that carbs before training, during training and after training is the answer to all our exercise woes. For over three decades I?ve been saying the exact opposite. Mainly that the use of carbs anywhere near exercise is counter productive. In the stead of carbs I?ve substituted amino acids and proteins because they can do what carbs do while at the same time maximizing body composition, increasing muscle mass and decreasing body fat.
DH, the earlier post about the Anabolic Diet was taken from your PM’s.
How are you sleeping on the AD? The reason I ask is because low carb diets always kill my sleep. My epinephrine starts pumping like crazy, which is good because it’s very lipolytic, but it keeps me awake.
If this is an issue for you, then some carbs before bed aren’t a bad idea.
Regardless, breaking up your 30g allotment into 2 “meals” is what I’d do. It’ll keep you in fat burning mode, but will help you keep your sanity.
Hope this helps!
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Davey,
Just for clarity and the benefit of all the readers, how can I best have my cake and eat it too for pre/post workout supps on the AD.
You said you’ve used 30g pre and got good results. This is my daily limit, so would perhaps 10-15 grams of glucose give a sufficient rise of insulin to maximize hyperaminoacidemia. I currently use hydrolyzed about 15 mins pre workout. About 25g worth.
Final thoughts?
DH[/quote]
How cool is that?! Thanks for the heads up! Although the TMJ muscle is better, it’s because I’m treating it like a sports injury. This means no more oatmeal or other small chewy foods for me.
It’s odd but I’ve noticed myself grinding when I first wake up, so I may need to wear the mouthguard 24-7! LOL
Thanks again JB!
[quote]Jillybop wrote:
I noticed the other day you mentioned that you’re having trouble grinding your teeth at night. I used to clench my jaw at night and it really started bothering me. My chiro recommended the Splintek night guard and it really helped. Just thought I’d mention it… Take care!
http://www.splintek.com/
[/quote]
Dave,
I’ve been on the AD for about 10 years now. I’ve gotten to 247 at about 10-12%. Not trying to cut but can do so in about 6 weeks on the low cal cycle. I really love the diet (lifestyle?). No problems sleeping. I’m amazed at what a ridiculous pump I get from only eating oatmeal and jelly beans for my first carb meal. No workout needed. ha! Yeah…you’ll get some wild food cravings to indulge your carb desires. The pumps are wicked and I feel full and tight all week. Only about friday do I lose a bit of “swole”, but then I’m looking relatively lean. My digestion and comfort were terrible on even a zone type diet, but I can really hum on the AD. Once I was really adapted (about 3 months), I knew I could never go back.
DH
[quote]David Barr wrote:
DH, the earlier post about the Anabolic Diet was taken from your PM’s.
How are you sleeping on the AD? The reason I ask is because low carb diets always kill my sleep. My epinephrine starts pumping like crazy, which is good because it’s very lipolytic, but it keeps me awake.
If this is an issue for you, then some carbs before bed aren’t a bad idea.
Regardless, breaking up your 30g allotment into 2 “meals” is what I’d do. It’ll keep you in fat burning mode, but will help you keep your sanity.
Hope this helps!
Disc Hoss wrote:
Davey,
Just for clarity and the benefit of all the readers, how can I best have my cake and eat it too for pre/post workout supps on the AD.
You said you’ve used 30g pre and got good results. This is my daily limit, so would perhaps 10-15 grams of glucose give a sufficient rise of insulin to maximize hyperaminoacidemia. I currently use hydrolyzed about 15 mins pre workout. About 25g worth.
Final thoughts?
DH
[/quote]
SH, I don’t choose sucrose at all… well, I do in a fed situation, but not for dieting. It’s just what our lab uses for studies, and these are all overnight fasts only.
BTW-Even if you used sucrose, you wouldn’t have any fat gain… it’s only 30g.
2-3g of leucine? That’s pretty low, and I don’t think it would affect insulin. Arginine is more insulinogenic and 2-3g wouldn’t stimulate anything.
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Thanks, Dave.
I’m curious at to why you choose sucrose. I’ve read that glucose preferentially fills the muscle while sucrose splits time and can spill into fat cells more easily.
Also, is it true that about 2-3g of leucine will stimulate an insulin response independent of CHO?
DH
[/quote]
DH, that is great info, I appreciate you passing it along! The Dr. certainly knows his stuff, and it’s a blast reading his ideas.
His mention of the differential CHO adapted vs. fat adapted responses to PWO nutrition, echoes what I was alluding to in the first post.
If I have to nitpick, I’d have to say that there might be a little too much focus on hormones.
I think we need to worry about minimizing insulin, maximizing epinephrine, and maintaining thyroid function. The rest you can take or leave. On second thought, it seems like this was what DDP was doing (more or less).
Your hydrolysate will likely stimulate insulin, which to me, says that it doesn’t matter if you have 15g of CHO in your blood stream or not.
BTW-Why hydrolyzed casein?
Overall excellent read!
Thanks again!
Hey again,
I hate that I can’t get my hands on some of your old posts, since I had a professor ask me today about a question you answered in depth a few days ago.
Anyways,
-
What is EXACTLY going on in the body when post-exercise ibuprofen is taken to ease the effects of immediate, and DOMS?
Please feel free to be as in depth as possible, because I will forward this directly to my professor (crediting everything to you, of course) -
What are the ill effects of taking vit. C post workout?
I have tests all week, so in case I can’t check up on this, could you please pm me your response?
Thanks, you always have great info for the members of T-Nation.
MaxX, I PM’d you with the Prime Time from last week. Did you not get it?
Ibuprofen is a cyclooxygenase (COX) inhibitor drug, meaning that it inhibits an enzyme that normally stimulates pain and inflammation.
By knocking out COX, our nerves may not receive the pain messages that normally occur during DOMS. Of course this also abolishes the anabolic response.
One of the pain messengers is PGF2-alpha, which plays an important role in muscle growth and adaptation. So if we knock out PGF2-alpha then we eliminate some pain, but also anabolism.
Overall, it seems as though the data on COX inhibitors and DOMS are equivocal. Seeing as they can hinder our desired effects without even impacting pain, I’d leave them alone. Case in point, my jaw is throbbing right now. LOL
MaxX, we don’t have too much info on post workout antioxidant supplementation, but the single study I know of showed that vitamin C combined with N-acetyl cysteine increased muscle damage and delayed recovery.
I don’t think this means that we should never consume antioxidants post workout, but it should get us to rethink some of the PWO dogma to which we are accustomed.
Cheers
[quote]the MaxX wrote:
- What are the ill effects of taking vit. C post workout?
I have tests all week, so in case I can’t check up on this, could you please pm me your response?
Thanks, you always have great info for the members of T-Nation.[/quote]
[quote]David Barr wrote:
MaxX, we don’t have too much info on post workout antioxidant supplementation, but the single study I know of showed that vitamin C combined with N-acetyl cysteine increased muscle damage and delayed recovery.
[/quote]
damn that sucks, i take my multi vitamin before i workout to get the flux of b vitamins and i also drink some gatorade with NAC after i workout because that is the only way it makes NAC powder bearible to drink. laters pk
DB,
What have your personal results been with Carbolin 19 as as of this point. i know you mentioned that you had been using it. Like it/satisfied with the results? just trying to get some feedback from those who might have been using it longer than the general populus. thanks.
Maybe you could get to this tonight…
I’m almost to my goal weight and starting to think about my next training phase. Honestly, whenever I’ve worked out/dieted in the past, it was always focused on losing weight. Now that I’m finally serious about my nutrition and fitness and about to reach my goal weight, I’m not sure what to do!
I want to focus on getting stronger and being able to lift more and more weight. However, I don’t really want to “eat big to get big” the way the guys do. Don’t get me wrong, I know I’m not going to get huge and I’m all for some quality muscle and definition - I’m just not sure how to eat to best support my new goals. I’m thinking that I will need to find a “maintenance” calorie range, while continuing to eat clean, healthy foods. Just wondering your thoughts… Thanks!
Just want to give a heads up to another cool thread in the BBB forum, entitled: Prime Time AR Question (by Philll).
Interesting new info…