Hey Dave,
hydrolyzed casein? Don’t really know, beyond trying to “mix it up” with the hydro whey. The whey is at 520 daltons and the casein is at 360 daltons. Thought perhaps there could be some bases covered by each individually or perhaps a synergystic effect. Really a shot in the dark, nothing based on my reading.
BTW- do you feel that an FFAA’s might be superior to hydrolyzed proteins, specifically at the above mentioned molecular weights?
thanks,
DH
pkradgreek, I wouldn’t worry about it too much, just change things around. If NAC is too unbearable, switch to R-ALA (they operate through similar mechanisms).
Alternatively, you could have your NAC in your morning shake (if you do so).
There are also data showing that “pre workout” antioxidant supplementation can reduce muscle strength, but nothing in humans so far…
From this, I’d also take the multi at a different time.
Cheers
[quote]pkradgreek wrote:
damn that sucks, i take my multi vitamin before i workout to get the flux of b vitamins and i also drink some gatorade with NAC after i workout because that is the only way it makes NAC powder bearible to drink. laters pk[/quote]
What are you currently studying/going to school for?
Recommended Books for Strength and Conditioning? your fav’s?
Hey DB glad to see you on tonight. Precontest is going well although today is a rough day. Legs yesterday drained the shit out of me. Low carb is getting to me and I am struggling a little tonight. Anyway my show is next Saturday and was wondering if you could give me a run down of what you think a last week precontest should look like. I would love your input. Thanks
trailer, I only had a single bottle of Carbolin 19, which lasted a month, and in that time I put on 6 pounds of LBM!
I’m coming back off a HUGE layoff and reloaded on creatine, so that may have something to do with the mass increase. LOL
I wish I could give you a more realistic improvement, but for now all I have is the inflated number.
[quote]trailer36 wrote:
DB,
What have your personal results been with Carbolin 19 as as of this point. i know you mentioned that you had been using it. Like it/satisfied with the results? just trying to get some feedback from those who might have been using it longer than the general populus. thanks.[/quote]
Jillybop, the usual approach I take is based on long term goals. It involves gradually eating more and more until people notice a little fat gain, then cut back a little (the unnoticeable fat can disappear without even trying).
While this sounds unrefined and unscientific, you’re really establishing a long term calorie threshold (which is the most important thing we can do in this situation).
While I’m not sure if you’re more into strength or LBM (sounds like both), you may want to try something as simple as increasing calories by 5-10% of current maintenance, following JB’s nutrient combinations.
This will give you a nice conservative start, without resulting in any drastic changes. Try it out and we’ll go from there.
Does this sound feasible to you?
[quote]Jillybop wrote:
Maybe you could get to this tonight…
I’m almost to my goal weight and starting to think about my next training phase. Honestly, whenever I’ve worked out/dieted in the past, it was always focused on losing weight. Now that I’m finally serious about my nutrition and fitness and about to reach my goal weight, I’m not sure what to do!
I want to focus on getting stronger and being able to lift more and more weight. However, I don’t really want to “eat big to get big” the way the guys do. Don’t get me wrong, I know I’m not going to get huge and I’m all for some quality muscle and definition - I’m just not sure how to eat to best support my new goals. I’m thinking that I will need to find a “maintenance” calorie range, while continuing to eat clean, healthy foods. Just wondering your thoughts… Thanks!
[/quote]
DB, due in part to discussions here, I’ve been looking into the Anabolic Diet, and I’m wondering what your opinion on AD vs. TDawg is. My biggest concern with AD is lack of proper PWO nutrition (or at least conventional wisdom on PWO nutrition, or maybe even “dogma” as you like to say), ie Surge.
Also, what is the scientific support behind the idea of converting oneself from a “sugar burner” to a “fat burner”? Does this concept merely boil down to someone who is in ketosis vs. someone who is not? If there is something more to this, it would seem a very powerful case for eating in this manner. I mean, you would theoretically convert your natural body composition to one that is leaner while consuming the same kcals.
Would you expect a significant difference in results/outcome with all other things being the same with one person consuming ~30 grams carbs per day vs. another consuming ~100 grams carbs per day?
Which to do if the primary goal is fat loss?
I’m thinking of doing both and comparing for myself… any tips on what to look for in making my comparisons?
Thanks… sorry for rambling, just got a lot of thoughts on the matter.
DH, holy crap, nice avatar!
There’s a bit of debate about the use of free amino acids vs proteins.
Ideally you’d want a combination of both to take advantage of all the “transporters” in our gut (leading to faster absorption).
Pure amino acids may be too fast for the average person, because they get taken up so quickly that blood levels of amino acids can decrease. We’ve all experienced this effect when it comes to glucose I’m sure.
There’s a graph related to this effect here: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459463
Bottom Line is that a combination is ideal, but you’re fine with what you’re doing.
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Hey Dave,
hydrolyzed casein? Don’t really know, beyond trying to “mix it up” with the hydro whey. The whey is at 520 daltons and the casein is at 360 daltons. Thought perhaps there could be some bases covered by each individually or perhaps a synergystic effect. Really a shot in the dark, nothing based on my reading.
BTW- do you feel that an FFAA’s might be superior to hydrolyzed proteins, specifically at the above mentioned molecular weights?
thanks,
DH
[/quote]
Ah school, the fun that I have with that… well, I’ve been enrolled at the University of Waterloo for a full decade now (3 semesters a year… holy crap, 30 semesters!).
I’m finishing up an exercise biochem degree there, despite being here in TX.
As for books, I go against the grain and suggest “Strength and Power in Sport” by PV KOMI . It’s a good intro book, that should be read by everyone on T-Nation, regardless of their goals!
I’ve also heard nothing but great things about CT’s books.
Cheers
[quote]bigpump23 wrote:
What are you currently studying/going to school for?
Recommended Books for Strength and Conditioning? your fav’s?[/quote]
[quote]bino wrote:
DB, due in part to discussions here, I’ve been looking into the Anabolic Diet, and I’m wondering what your opinion on AD vs. TDawg is. My biggest concern with AD is lack of proper PWO nutrition (or at least conventional wisdom on PWO nutrition, or maybe even “dogma” as you like to say), ie Surge.
Also, what is the scientific support behind the idea of converting oneself from a “sugar burner” to a “fat burner”? Does this concept merely boil down to someone who is in ketosis vs. someone who is not? If there is something more to this, it would seem a very powerful case for eating in this manner. I mean, you would theoretically convert your natural body composition to one that is leaner while consuming the same kcals.
Would you expect a significant difference in results/outcome with all other things being the same with one person consuming ~30 grams carbs per day vs. another consuming ~100 grams carbs per day?
Which to do if the primary goal is fat loss?
I’m thinking of doing both and comparing for myself… any tips on what to look for in making my comparisons?
Thanks… sorry for rambling, just got a lot of thoughts on the matter.[/quote]
Bino, sorry to do a small hijack, but you hit the nail on the head. All the studies show you can consume 300-500 kcals more on the AD. The BIG difference is that food is just your “drug” to create the optimal hormonal environment. If you are interested, the best book I’ve ever come across on this is Natural Hormonal Enhancement by Rob Faigin. Dave Draper carries it on his site still, I believe. It has over 1,700 references. Absolutely an incredible amount of information crammed in this thing. Between that and the AD, you’ll be a walking encyclopedia of nutritional biochemistry. 
Hijack over, take care.
DH
Hey man, thanks for the update!
Could you be a little more specific with your question? You’ll want to give me a run down of your stats, where you’re at in terms of your goals, the past weeks progress etc.
Hook us up!
[quote]mike hanley wrote:
Hey DB glad to see you on tonight. Precontest is going well although today is a rough day. Legs yesterday drained the shit out of me. Low carb is getting to me and I am struggling a little tonight. Anyway my show is next Saturday and was wondering if you could give me a run down of what you think a last week precontest should look like. I would love your input. Thanks[/quote]
You know, I’ve been tossing this around for a while now…
Although I appreciate the complexities of the AD, I do not feel that another 70g of CHO throughout the day will have a big impact, particularly on someone who is training hard.
DH got me thinking about PWO, and as much as I like CHO PWO, it’s not necessary. I’d always use a minimum of 20-30g to enhance anabolism, and this has nothing to do with glycogen.
EXCELLENT idea in trying them both! Look for any differences in: motivation, energy levels, cravings, sex drive, sleepiness etc. Of course absolute subjectivity corrupts absolutely, so be sure to keep track of as much as you can by the numbers.
As always, keep us informed!
[quote]bino wrote:
DB, due in part to discussions here, I’ve been looking into the Anabolic Diet, and I’m wondering what your opinion on AD vs. TDawg is. My biggest concern with AD is lack of proper PWO nutrition (or at least conventional wisdom on PWO nutrition, or maybe even “dogma” as you like to say), ie Surge.
Also, what is the scientific support behind the idea of converting oneself from a “sugar burner” to a “fat burner”? Does this concept merely boil down to someone who is in ketosis vs. someone who is not? If there is something more to this, it would seem a very powerful case for eating in this manner. I mean, you would theoretically convert your natural body composition to one that is leaner while consuming the same kcals.
Would you expect a significant difference in results/outcome with all other things being the same with one person consuming ~30 grams carbs per day vs. another consuming ~100 grams carbs per day?
Which to do if the primary goal is fat loss?
I’m thinking of doing both and comparing for myself… any tips on what to look for in making my comparisons?
Thanks… sorry for rambling, just got a lot of thoughts on the matter.[/quote]
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
bino wrote:
DB, due in part to discussions here, I’ve been looking into the Anabolic Diet, and I’m wondering what your opinion on AD vs. TDawg is. My biggest concern with AD is lack of proper PWO nutrition (or at least conventional wisdom on PWO nutrition, or maybe even “dogma” as you like to say), ie Surge.
Also, what is the scientific support behind the idea of converting oneself from a “sugar burner” to a “fat burner”? Does this concept merely boil down to someone who is in ketosis vs. someone who is not? If there is something more to this, it would seem a very powerful case for eating in this manner. I mean, you would theoretically convert your natural body composition to one that is leaner while consuming the same kcals.
Would you expect a significant difference in results/outcome with all other things being the same with one person consuming ~30 grams carbs per day vs. another consuming ~100 grams carbs per day?
Which to do if the primary goal is fat loss?
I’m thinking of doing both and comparing for myself… any tips on what to look for in making my comparisons?
Thanks… sorry for rambling, just got a lot of thoughts on the matter.
Bino, sorry to do a small hijack, but you hit the nail on the head. All the studies show you can consume 300-500 kcals more on the AD. The BIG difference is that food is just your “drug” to create the optimal hormonal environment. If you are interested, the best book I’ve ever come across on this is Natural Hormonal Enhancement by Rob Faigin. Dave Draper carries it on his site still, I believe. It has over 1,700 references. Absolutely an incredible amount of information crammed in this thing. Between that and the AD, you’ll be a walking encyclopedia of nutritional biochemistry.
Hijack over, take care.
DH[/quote]
DH, no need to apologize to me, I’m always interested to hear what you have to say; can’t speak for Barr though…
I picked up the original AD and Anabolic Solution per your reccomendation, I’ll pick up the last one you refer to.
I’ve read AD and it’s odd, but he never states explicitly what I tried state in that post, ie, reading between the lines, or extrapolating from the theory, however you want to put it, the metabolic shift carried to its natural conclusion is that you actually alter your biochemisty. You don’t just lose fat due to a caloric deficit, you actually alter the “set point” of how much fat your body carries. I don’t have experience with the diet, and I don’t know if it’s just a bunch of hyperbole, but if it is true, that’s the strongest case for the diet… so why didn’t the Dr. say it? He’s a smart guy.
Case in point against this-- all the puny Atkins followers. Counter point-- do they train, are they strict, they aren’t loading, etc. Bottom line is I don’t know what the answer is, but this seems so basic, I don’t know why the answer isn’t out there already.
BTW, presuming your avatar is you, I’ll be happy to follow any diet and training advice you care to give 
Looking swole, bro! I assume that is post Monday night training induced pumped shot. lol
bino, you make a great point at the end, but the idea of its simplicity is deceptive.
It seems to be one of those things that is more complicated than we would initially think (is there anything to which this oversimplification doesn’t apply? LOL).
BTW-I think that DH is using Atkins because he’s so tiny http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=641374 .
[quote]bino wrote:
Case in point against this-- all the puny Atkins followers. Counter point-- do they train, are they strict, they aren’t loading, etc. Bottom line is I don’t know what the answer is, but this seems so basic, I don’t know why the answer isn’t out there already.
[/quote]
Alright guys, I’m off!
Thanks for another great week!
BTW-Any simple questions or thread continuations do no need to end with Prime Time.
Cheers
[quote]David Barr wrote:
Just want to give a heads up to another cool thread in the BBB forum, entitled: Prime Time AR Question (by Philll).
Interesting new info…[/quote]
Thanks for the mention Dave but seems as no one took the bait lol. even yourself. You holdin out on me.
Want I should bring my the questions/comments on Pre,During/post w/o nutrition over here.
Have a good one Eh’
Phill