Pres Debate: 10/16/2012

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.[/quote]

Oh really? Care to point out specifics?

1- Obama has raised taxes and threatens to raise them even more by eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That is not hyperbole it is FACT!

2- Obama said, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” Did he mean it? You can claim he didn’t mean what he said but he said it! FACT!

3- Obama has increased regulations on small business, I know I’m there and I have to deal with it on a regular basis- FACT!

4- Obama has said many times that he wants people in the higher tax brackets, the top 1% who pay 37 of all taxes and the top 10% who pay 70% of all taxes to pay “their fair share” as if they are not doing even more than that now. That too is a FACT!

Now if you’d like to tell me where the hyperbole is I’d be glad to read your post. Otherwise, just admit that we have a President who is not all that fond of small business.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

The idea that you would hire, fire and decrease people’s pay based on whether or not the President was re-elected is disturbing and disconcerting, especially if there are many business owners with the same mindset.

[/quote]

You left out an important part of the equation Mufasa. The President of the United States has threatened to raise taxes on small business people. He has also told me, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” He’s passed a health insurance law that will cost me a great deal of money as well. And the regulations that have been passed since he’s been in office that harm small business are numerous. In short while I am in the highest income bracket and pay every penny each year the President told me, “you are not paying your fair share.”

Well…my response is simple.

I have donated the maximum amount allowed by law to the Romney campaign. And I will further donate what I can directly to the Ohio state republican party and donate into other state party’s where the election is close. I’ve also volunteered to drive people to the polls and I’ve (politely) asked my employees, friends and family to do the same. And I’m happy to say they are all on board. Obviously, politics is a team effort. But should Obama lose a close election I’d like to think that it was one of my dollars that helped defeat him!

And trust me I am not alone.

But I ask you, what would you do if the President of the United States had looked directly at you and said, “I don’t like you Mufasa and I’m going to get you…” How would you feel? Well, now you know how I and the many small business people across the United States feel.

So when you comment on how I state that I am going to reduce wages, raise prices and not expand should Obama be reelected make sure that you have the complete picture.[/quote]

Zeb: I don’t and wil probably never own a small business, so I defer to you on this topic and respect the success you’ve had. And you know a hell of a lot more than me about the regulations on small business, etc.

One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies. That you did it, but you didn’t do it alone. It is a point so banal and obvious that it approaches platitudinousness, and it would have remained so if not for some very opportunistic manufactured outrage.

Your posts are usually about 80 percent dead on and 20 percent talk-radio talking points. The latter always undermine the former.[/quote]

He said “if you’ve got a business you didn’t build that, someone else made that happen.”

I’d say if he was referring to roads, bridges and other such infrastructure he could have worded it far better. But moreover there was a sentiment expressed in his words. One that I, and many of my colleagues across the country didn’t appreciate.

He then proceeded to prove that he is anti small business by increasing regulation, raising taxes and threatening to raise them even higher by saying that I am not paying my fair share already. And passing a small business crippling health insurance plan.

So as my Grandmother used to say “the proof is in the pudding.”

Did he mean what he said? I don’t much care if he meant it or not his actions have spoken louder than his words ever could.

By the way I am 100% spot on with my posts. It’s just that you don’t like it when I add an occasional talking point which happens to be true :wink:

But all kidding aside this is not just the game of politics with me this time around. We have a President who either hates or does not understand small business. And that is a very bad thing for me and the entire country as we can see in his dismal economic numbers.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.[/quote]

Oh really? Care to point out specifics?

1- Obama has raised taxes and threatens to raise them even more by eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That is not hyperbole it is FACT!

2- Obama said, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” Did he mean it? You can claim he didn’t mean what he said but he said it! FACT!

3- Obama has increased regulations on small business, I know I’m there and I have to deal with it on a regular basis- FACT!

4- Obama has said many times that he wants people in the higher tax brackets, the top 1% who pay 37 of all taxes and the top 10% who pay 70% of all taxes to pay “their fair share” as if they are not doing even more than that now. That too is a FACT!

Now if you’d like to tell me where the hyperbole is I’d be glad to read your post. Otherwise, just admit that we have a President who is not all that fond of small business.

[/quote]

Zeb:

I’m not some 20-something that you can Carpet Bomb into submission on “PWI” with quips and “facts” that most likely are twisted to fit your view of the President.

But again…THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!

And to echo what smh said; I will most likely never own a business, and really have no desire to. What you face day in and day out I’ll never know nor will never appreciate.

But I also doubt that your struggles are the result of the President’s desire to destroy small business.

Mufasa

The National Federation of Independent Businesses have given Obama the lowest rating that they’ve ever given a President of the United States.

Ah…but what do they know it’s all a bunch of hyperbole right Mufasa?

It is until you have a small business you’ve dedicated your life to. Then having Obama as President is not so much fun.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

The idea that you would hire, fire and decrease people’s pay based on whether or not the President was re-elected is disturbing and disconcerting, especially if there are many business owners with the same mindset.

[/quote]

You left out an important part of the equation Mufasa. The President of the United States has threatened to raise taxes on small business people. He has also told me, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” He’s passed a health insurance law that will cost me a great deal of money as well. And the regulations that have been passed since he’s been in office that harm small business are numerous. In short while I am in the highest income bracket and pay every penny each year the President told me, “you are not paying your fair share.”

Well…my response is simple.

I have donated the maximum amount allowed by law to the Romney campaign. And I will further donate what I can directly to the Ohio state republican party and donate into other state party’s where the election is close. I’ve also volunteered to drive people to the polls and I’ve (politely) asked my employees, friends and family to do the same. And I’m happy to say they are all on board. Obviously, politics is a team effort. But should Obama lose a close election I’d like to think that it was one of my dollars that helped defeat him!

And trust me I am not alone.

But I ask you, what would you do if the President of the United States had looked directly at you and said, “I don’t like you Mufasa and I’m going to get you…” How would you feel? Well, now you know how I and the many small business people across the United States feel.

So when you comment on how I state that I am going to reduce wages, raise prices and not expand should Obama be reelected make sure that you have the complete picture.[/quote]

Zeb: I don’t and wil probably never own a small business, so I defer to you on this topic and respect the success you’ve had. And you know a hell of a lot more than me about the regulations on small business, etc.

One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies. That you did it, but you didn’t do it alone. It is a point so banal and obvious that it approaches platitudinousness, and it would have remained so if not for some very opportunistic manufactured outrage.

Your posts are usually about 80 percent dead on and 20 percent talk-radio talking points. The latter always undermine the former.[/quote]

He said “if you’ve got a business you didn’t build that, someone else made that happen.”

I’d say if he was referring to roads, bridges and other such infrastructure he could have worded it far better. But moreover there was a sentiment expressed in his words. One that I, and many of my colleagues across the country didn’t appreciate.

He then proceeded to prove that he is anti small business by increasing regulation, raising taxes and threatening to raise them even higher by saying that I am not paying my fair share already. And passing a small business crippling health insurance plan.

So as my Grandmother used to say “the proof is in the pudding.”

Did he mean what he said? I don’t much care if he meant it or not his actions have spoken louder than his words ever could.

By the way I am 100% spot on with my posts. It’s just that you don’t like it when I add an occasional talking point which happens to be true :wink:

But all kidding aside this is not just the game of politics with me this time around. We have a President who either hates or does not understand small business. And that is a very bad thing for me and the entire country as we can see in his dismal economic numbers.[/quote]

@ZEB

95% of what you said I agree with you but to be fair regarding the “you did not build that video” from just watching he was referring to the infrastructure building that all levels of government do to mitigate the infrastructure deficit in America. Declining infrastructure hurts transportation of goods and services to the market. The public investments in physical infrastructure yield greater returns than anything else. You clipped his speech and do what all media outlets do which is to take sentences out of context. All media has hurt politicians this way and it is a shame. The president was referring to what Elizabeth Warren has said which discussed the relationship between individual wealth and investments in roads, infrastructure, law enforcement agencies, police and fire, and investments in public education. Warren’s point was the investing in police helps to prevent those who wish to do physical harm on you by ransacking your business from getting the chance to.

The one thing that makes it hard to vote Republican though is that they almost took the government to the fiscal cliff with the debt ceiling which would have made the government default and not be able to pay the hardworking law enforcement agencies that secure the borders in which free market capitalism can exist.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Zeb:

I’m not some 20-something that you can Carpet Bomb into submission on “PWI” with quips and “facts” that most likely are twisted to fit your view of the President.

But again…THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!

And to echo what smh said; I will most likely never own a business, and really have no desire to. What you face day in and day out I’ll never know nor will never appreciate.

But I also doubt that your struggles are the result of the President’s desire to destroy small business.

Mufasa

[/quote]

Once again you post in generalities.

I live this each and every day.

Don’t try to dismiss my points with a sweeping generality, it is insulting.

Please take your time and point out which of the following four points I have gotten wrong. And if they are not incorrect then they must be factual.

1- Obama has raised taxes and threatens to raise them even more by eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That is not hyperbole it is FACT!

2- Obama said, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” Did he mean it? You can claim he didn’t mean what he said but he said it! FACT!

3- Obama has increased regulations on small business, I know I’m there and I have to deal with it on a regular basis- FACT!

4- Obama has said many times that he wants people in the higher tax brackets, the top 1% who pay 37 of all taxes and the top 10% who pay 70% of all taxes to pay “their fair share” as if they are not doing even more than that now. That too is a FACT!

It’s true you are not the run of the mill 20 something so I expect more from you Mufasa.

It is absolutely astonishing how many people don’t understand how much Obama is harming this economy (apparently you are part of this group) simply through his attitude and actions against small business.

You know what, Zeb?

What I think is “not fun” is the greatest Economic downturn/Recession since the Great Depression; with our largest trading partner (Europe) with more Economic uncertainty that even us.

I would venture to say that those things have, and will continue to have, a much greater impact on your business.

Mufasa

Do you see why I didn’t want to get into this with you Zeb?

It’s YOUR business; YOUR money; and YOUR choice what to do with both.

The President is stifling your ability to hire and expand (and not the forces of the Great Recession both here and in Europe).

Romney will fix it all.

I get it…I really do…

Mufasa

Zb, out of curiosity (and I completely understand if you’d rather not say), what industry are you in?

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.

[/quote]

As someone that works with employers on a day-to-day basis. The vast majority agree with ZEB, as do most of the upwardly mobile people I talk to.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies. That you did it, but you didn’t do it alone. It is a point so banal and obvious that it approaches platitudinousness, and it would have remained so if not for some very opportunistic manufactured outrage.

[/quote]

Again. As I work with people who run businesses on a day-to-day basis. A vast majority agree with ZEB.

It isn’t manufactured outrage. But we’ve been though this.

And I could easily say that if you don’t see obama purposely starting class warfare and pushing progress “spread the wealth around” you are missing a point so banal and obvious that it approaches platitudinousness, and it would have remained so if not for some very opportunistic manufactured acceptance of anti-american values pushed by the media and holloywood for decades now.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.

[/quote]

As someone that works with employers on a day-to-day basis. The vast majority agree with ZEB, as do most of the upwardly mobile people I talk to.

[/quote]

Great, CB.

Because I don’t own a business is the reason why I didn’t want to get into this with Zeb.

If President Obama is the reason why small business is not hiring and expanding…and not the Great Recession here and in Europe; then he needs to be voted out…and 3 weeks will not be soon enough.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

If President Obama is the reason why small business is not hiring and expanding…and not the Great Recession here and in Europe; then he needs to be voted out…and 3 weeks will not be soon enough.

Mufasa

[/quote]

Now you are doing just what you were giving ZEB a hard time for doing.

You are taking things to an extreme.

If you like obama fine, but don’t try and kid us into thinking he is either a good president, has good ideas, or gives two shits about anyone but himself.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.

[/quote]

As someone that works with employers on a day-to-day basis. The vast majority agree with ZEB, as do most of the upwardly mobile people I talk to.

[/quote]

As an employer and small business owner, myself, I sure do.

Vote him out.

Early voting has already started in many States.

The General Election is in 3 weeks.

Mufasa

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

If President Obama is the reason why small business is not hiring and expanding…and not the Great Recession here and in Europe; then he needs to be voted out…and 3 weeks will not be soon enough.

Mufasa

[/quote]

Now you are doing just what you were giving ZEB a hard time for doing.

You are taking things to an extreme.

If you like obama fine, but don’t try and kid us into thinking he is either a good president, has good ideas, or gives two shits about anyone but himself.

[/quote]

I don’t try to convince grown people of anything, CB, especially those as partisan as on “PWI”.

Vote him out.

Early voting has already started.

The General Election is in 3 weeks.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Vote him out.

Mufasa[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Do you see why I didn’t want to get into this with you Zeb?

It’s YOUR business; YOUR money; and YOUR choice what to do with both.

The President is stifling your ability to hire and expand (and not the forces of the Great Recession both here and in Europe).

Romney will fix it all.

I get it…I really do…

Mufasa[/quote]

Two more posts by you and no refutation of any of the four main points that Obama has either said or done. Just more generalities…

I get it Mufasa I really do!

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Zb, out of curiosity (and I completely understand if you’d rather not say), what industry are you in?[/quote]

That is insignificant to my greater point. Obama is hurting the majority of small businesses that is my point! To date no one has even been able to mount a successful defense of the four points that I listed.

It amazes me how some on this thread, otherwise very intelligent people, simply gloss over some of Obama’s biggest failures.