[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Do you see why I didn’t want to get into this with you Zeb?
It’s YOUR business; YOUR money; and YOUR choice what to do with both.
The President is stifling your ability to hire and expand (and not the forces of the Great Recession both here and in Europe).
Romney will fix it all.
I get it…I really do…
Mufasa[/quote]
Two more posts by you and no refutation of any of the four main points that Obama has either said or done. Just more generalities…
I get it Mufasa I really do![/quote]
To what end, Zeb?
I’ve posted here long enough to know that certain posters are never, EVER wrong; and you are one of them.
Also…it’s like arguing Religion. If the very foundation of one’s “facts” are skewed to fit the very core of their beliefs; whatever anyone in opposition post will always, ALWAYS be “wrong”.
Again; THIS is simple…
If the President is hurting your ability to hire and expand with Taxes and over-regulation, then vote him out and let Romney fix it.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Zb, out of curiosity (and I completely understand if you’d rather not say), what industry are you in?[/quote]
That is insignificant to my greater point. Obama is hurting the majority of small businesses that is my point! To date no one has even been able to mount a successful defense of the four points that I listed.
It amazes me how some on this thread, otherwise very intelligent people, simply gloss over some of Obama’s biggest failures.
[/quote]
I was literally asking out of curiosity, not to try and argue against you.
One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies…
[/quote]
Bull
Fucking
Shit
You are dumber than a sack of rocks riding on the wheel well of the short bus if you think that’s what he meant. Talk about falling for the propaganda.
[/quote]
Yes, let’s talk about falling for propaganda.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you̢??ve got a business Рyou didn̢??t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn̢??t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we donâ??t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires."
I am the first to say that the lines always quoted–“You didn’t build that, somebody else made that happen”–sound terrible and were worded in the most impolitic way imaginable.
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc. Private enterprise as it exists in America today is reliant on government. It is entirely contingent upon the very entity which its supposed champions would like to shrink to nothing and drawn in the bathtub.
Obama’s remark was bromide, a tautology. It was painfully obvious and it would have been uncontroversial in any other era. If I were a Republican I would be unbelievably embarrassed at the circus that has grown up around this manufactured non-issue.
One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies…
[/quote]
Bull
Fucking
Shit
You are dumber than a sack of rocks riding on the wheel well of the short bus if you think that’s what he meant. Talk about falling for the propaganda.
[/quote]
Yes, let’s talk about falling for propaganda.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If youÃ?¢??ve got a business – you didnÃ?¢??t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didnÃ?¢??t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don�¢??t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires."
I am the first to say that the lines always quoted–“You didn’t build that, somebody else made that happen”–sound terrible and were worded in the most impolitic way imaginable.
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc. Private enterprise as it exists in America today is reliant on government. It is entirely contingent upon the very entity which its supposed champions would like to shrink to nothing and drawn in the bathtub.
Obama’s remark was bromide, a tautology. It was painfully obvious and it would have been uncontroversial in any other era. If I were a Republican I would be unbelievably embarrassed at the circus that has grown up around this manufactured non-issue.[/quote]
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc.
[/quote]
No offense, but you’ve just shown how little you know about small business. Government TAKES far more than it delivers.
One of the biggest enemies of small business iIS government in its various forms local, state and federal.
Taxes in all the many ways they are levied consume up to half of what you take in. And runaway regulation more than make up for the pot hole roads that we all drive down.
But then government is inefficient so what do we expect? We pay in 1 dollar and get about 10 cents worth of “infrastructure.”
There are many good reasons NOT to grow the government. Helping small business is only one of them.
I also want to add that if you make more you pay more. So I feel that I own more of those roads, bridges and sidewalks that didn’t really mean a damn thing to my success.
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc.
[/quote]
No offense, but you’ve just shown how little you know about small business. Government TAKES far more than it delivers.
One of the biggest enemies of small business iIS government in its various forms local, state and federal.
Taxes in all the many ways they are levied consume up to half of what you take in. And runaway regulation more than make up for the pot hole roads that we all drive down.
But then government is inefficient so what do we expect? We pay in 1 dollar and get about 10 cents worth of “infrastructure.”
There are many good reasons NOT to grow the government. Helping small business is only one of them.
I also want to add that if you make more you pay more. So I feel that I own more of those roads, bridges and sidewalks that didn’t really mean a damn thing to my success.
[/quote]
The substance of the argument aside, your post tacitly acknowledges that Obama meant to say something and that that something is very different from what Push and the conservative circus are pretending he meant to say.
In other words, you are acknowledging that Obama was talking about the role of infrastructure and etc. in private enterprise. Whether you think that role should be larger or smaller is a matter of magnitude, but many people are simply pretending that something far more nefarious was at play.
In any case, this is all very self-evident, so I’m not going to argue over it anymore.
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc.
[/quote]
No offense, but you’ve just shown how little you know about small business. Government TAKES far more than it delivers.
One of the biggest enemies of small business iIS government in its various forms local, state and federal.
Taxes in all the many ways they are levied consume up to half of what you take in. And runaway regulation more than make up for the pot hole roads that we all drive down.
But then government is inefficient so what do we expect? We pay in 1 dollar and get about 10 cents worth of “infrastructure.”
There are many good reasons NOT to grow the government. Helping small business is only one of them.
I also want to add that if you make more you pay more. So I feel that I own more of those roads, bridges and sidewalks that didn’t really mean a damn thing to my success.
[/quote]
The substance of the argument aside, your post tacitly acknowledges that Obama meant to say something and that that something is very different from what Push and the conservative circus are pretending he meant to say.[/quote]
Not at all, I was addressig your post and your post alone. As for Obama’s comment he was spitting in the face of every business person who ever lived. In that one comment he showed his true colors and…they are not good!
No, I was acknowledging that YOU were talking about the role of infrastructure plays in the success of small business. Rather I was correcting some of your false beliefs.
Yeah…well that’s fine. But if you’d like to maybe you can tell me how all of the many, many early companies were built without the great help (cough) of government?
Levi Straus for example. Now how did they ever get by without a socialist in the White House?
No really sm, you are a good guy but I don’t buy your argument…not at all.
Government is far, far too big and absolutely gets in the way of small business as a rule. And in Obama’s case he is actually launching a war against small business. I know I’m in the front lines and see it every day.
He was well aware of what he was saying. Honestly, the moment I heard that it felt like the US government was spitting on everything that I had accomplished. But of course I put it in perspective and realized that it was not the US government only a very, very bad President who is clueless as to the power of small business on the economy.
One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies…
[/quote]
Bull
Fucking
Shit
You are dumber than a sack of rocks riding on the wheel well of the short bus if you think that’s what he meant. Talk about falling for the propaganda.
[/quote]
Something the Prezzy should have looked up…
The Ford Model T was built in 1908.
The Federal Aid Road Act was passed in 1916.
This is not the chicken/egg argument by any stretch of the imagination.
But it takes either willful ignorance or genuine stupidity to disagree with the sentiment being conveyed over the course of those two paragraphs. “We succeed because of our own initiative”–Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work. “But also because we do things together”–Zeb also benefited from things the government has done: roads and bridges, the security offered by police and fire brigades, schools, the internet, market regulation which ensures that people do not violate contracts with him and that there are repercussions if they do, etc. etc. etc.
[/quote]
No offense, but you’ve just shown how little you know about small business. Government TAKES far more than it delivers.
One of the biggest enemies of small business iIS government in its various forms local, state and federal.
Taxes in all the many ways they are levied consume up to half of what you take in. And runaway regulation more than make up for the pot hole roads that we all drive down.
But then government is inefficient so what do we expect? We pay in 1 dollar and get about 10 cents worth of “infrastructure.”
There are many good reasons NOT to grow the government. Helping small business is only one of them.
I also want to add that if you make more you pay more. So I feel that I own more of those roads, bridges and sidewalks that didn’t really mean a damn thing to my success.
[/quote]
The lower the form of government, the more the Unions ass-rape the taxes.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
If I were a Republican I would be unbelievably embarrassed at the circus that has grown up around this manufactured non-issue.[/quote]
Yet, a vast majority of them completely agree it was a statement worded like shit at best, and proof he is a “progressive” at worst.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Yes, let’s talk about falling for propaganda…Zeb’s business success is because of Zeb’s hard work.
[/quote]
You left out the fact that Obama is “always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something â?? there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)”
That paragraph^ was not poorly worded. It’s clearly deriding the hard work, intelligence and initiative of small business owners within the context of arguing for more government. It’s indefensible. If I were an Obama drone I’d be embarrassed to have to defend that outrageous speech.
the government doesn’t DO anything. They contract out the construction of those roads and bridges to businesses (usually their friend’s companies) using OUR money.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
the government doesn’t DO anything. They contract out the construction of those roads and bridges to businesses (usually their friend’s companies) using OUR money. [/quote]
Bingo.
Not to mention all those small business owners that “didn’t build that” more likely than not paid more taxes than his employees.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
1- Obama has raised taxes and threatens to raise them even more by eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That is not hyperbole it is FACT!
[/quote]
Good. Since the 80’s we have been running almost continuous deficit spending. It is about time we stop stealing from our children. We should continue raising taxes up until we are revenue neutral.
Only then will people realise that we are spending well beyond our means.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- Obama said, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” Did he mean it? You can claim he didn’t mean what he said but he said it! FACT!
[/quote]
It is pretty clear he is saying the wealthy have received help from society and/or the government. And so they have a responsibility to help society.
Of course we live in a society where it is a-ok to tell your parents to fuck off rather than lend them a hand in their old age. So maybe it is an extremist comment for todays “progressive” society.
The scariest thing is both liberals and new age conservatives shun responsibility.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
3- Obama has increased regulations on small business, I know I’m there and I have to deal with it on a regular basis- FACT!
[/quote]
Every year of my adult life there has been an increase in the number of regulations passed. I would like to see some proof Obama is causing an increase in the rate of new regulations.
Most of the burdensome regulations I have run into while working for small businesses have been local regulations. Not federal.
So how much of an additional burden have these extra regulations been ZEB? An extra hour per week? An extra 20 hours? An extra 200 hours? What kind of regulations? We need some context.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
4- Obama has said many times that he wants people in the higher tax brackets, the top 1% who pay 37 of all taxes and the top 10% who pay 70% of all taxes to pay “their fair share” as if they are not doing even more than that now. That too is a FACT!
[/quote]
And what is wrong with that?
I believe we are facing a crisis. A time in which everyone must do their part to bring America back from the brink. So if you have more than enough to comfortably retire, and support your children, then you should contribute more to your community.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Do you see why I didn’t want to get into this with you Zeb?
It’s YOUR business; YOUR money; and YOUR choice what to do with both.
The President is stifling your ability to hire and expand (and not the forces of the Great Recession both here and in Europe).
Romney will fix it all.
I get it…I really do…
Mufasa[/quote]
Two more posts by you and no refutation of any of the four main points that Obama has either said or done. Just more generalities…
I get it Mufasa I really do![/quote]
To what end, Zeb?
I’ve posted here long enough to know that certain posters are never, EVER wrong; and you are one of them.
Also…it’s like arguing Religion. If the very foundation of one’s “facts” are skewed to fit the very core of their beliefs; whatever anyone in opposition post will always, ALWAYS be “wrong”.
Again; THIS is simple…
If the President is hurting your ability to hire and expand with Taxes and over-regulation, then vote him out and let Romney fix it.
Mufasa[/quote]
I posted four reasons how Obama was harming small business. You didn’t even try to refute them. Instead you launch into a tirade I think I’m never wrong.
So, what it comes down to is irrelevant of what the tax rate is, the government is going to just spend more.
Your parents are “stealing” from you. Look at how social security works.
This is insane.
Lets see, my son loves cake. SO in order for him to stop loving cake in excess, I should give him more cake…
No reasonable person with a functioning brain doesn’t already realize this. They just want theirs so they don’t care.
So providing people with jobs, products and/or services and paying the bulk of the taxes collected by the nation is helping?
What else would you like them to do so others can sit back and be net takers?
[quote]
I believe we are facing a crisis. A time in which everyone must do their part to bring America back from the brink. So if you have more than enough to comfortably retire, and support your children, then you should contribute more to your community.[/quote]
Again, how much more to do expect the fraction of people you are referring to to give back while others sit around and take take take.
Are you a communist?
No, it is not the responsibility of the few to give more, while the majority sits around and takes. Everyone should have skin in this game, yes that includes everyone, not just those that already contribute more than 50+% of the nation.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
ZEB wrote:
1- Obama has raised taxes and threatens to raise them even more by eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That is not hyperbole it is FACT!
Good. Since the 80’s we have been running almost continuous deficit spending. It is about time we stop stealing from our children. We should continue raising taxes up until we are revenue neutral.[/quote]
Here’s an idea, how about shrinking the size of government. Are you aware of the waste fraud and duplication of efforts that takes place in government? Taking more from people who drive the economy foolish and is part of the reason the US has not been roaring back as it usually does after a recession.
By the way this is not a refutation of my point. In fact, you are agreeing with my point.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
2- Obama said, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” Did he mean it? You can claim he didn’t mean what he said but he said it! FACT!
It is pretty clear he is saying the wealthy have received help from society and/or the government. And so they have a responsibility to help society.[/quote]
You mean help society even more than they already do? The top 1% pays 37% of all income tax. I’d say they’re carrying far more than their fair share of the burden. But…just not quite enough for socialist Obama.
It is pretty clear that he is the first President to ever say such an outrageous statement. And those of us who heard him were well aware of his intentions. He wants to glorify government and downgrade the small business person.
“Government has all the answers and you are just a pitiful little human who cannot do anything without big brother.”
One more point you could not refute.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
3- Obama has increased regulations on small business, I know I’m there and I have to deal with it on a regular basis- FACT!
Every year of my adult life there has been an increase in the number of regulations passed. I would like to see some proof Obama is causing an increase in the rate of new regulations.[/quote]
Absolutely the funniest thing that you’ve written so far. You can’t refute it so you ask for proof:
Obama loves government and wants it inside of each and every business in America - SMARTEN UP!
No you must be mistaken because government in all its forms is there to help us…we’re so weak we need government local, state and federal.
LOL…they’re all too big and in the way! What makes you think local government is any better to deal with than the federal government?
I will give you no personal details of my business over the Internet. But I will say that I had one employee quit because of the stress of keeping up with various regulations. He was replaced by a former retired bureaucrat.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
4- Obama has said many times that he wants people in the higher tax brackets, the top 1% who pay 37 of all taxes and the top 10% who pay 70% of all taxes to pay “their fair share” as if they are not doing even more than that now. That too is a FACT!
And what is wrong with that?
I believe we are facing a crisis. A time in which everyone must do their part to bring America back from the brink. So if you have more than enough to comfortably retire, and support your children, then you should contribute more to your community.[/quote]
Then you are a socialist if you think it’s okay for the government to steal money from people simply because they have more. If Walmart did that there would be mass protests.
“Garden hoses for sale, 19.99 for those who make less than 65-k. 29.99 for those who make 65-k to 100-k. 99.99 fro those making over 100-k.”
Or, you have a reading comprehension problem. Allow me to repeat it so there is no question of what was said. The top 1% pay 37% of all income taxes. The top 10% pay 70% of all income taxes. Tell me how is that not more than fair? Would you like the top 1% to pay 50% or 65% of all income taxes. Go buy a clue, if that were to happen they would shut down. Some would leave the country. Socialism doesn’t work and never has. Know why? Because eventually you run out of other people’s money!
If there were a reduction in taxes for the top 10% you would see the economy grow. If you steal more money from the job creators as your hero Obama wants to do you will see the US slide back into another recession. Only this one will make the last recession look like an economic boon!
Glad to see you couldn’t refute any of the four points that I posted. These four things are causing major pain to small business in the US. Which in turn is causing unemployment to stay at a high rate. About 60% of all new hires are from small business. As Obama puts the choke hold on that sector he in turn chokes economic growth.
Obama needs to be replaced for the US to once again rise to economic prominence.
Yeah beans my sentiment exactly. There are real live socialists out there who love this guy being in the White House. And they have no qualms about claiming that those who have worked hard and made it should give even more to the government.
How did we get to this place?
I’d have to blame University’s for turning out these little boys who puke back up all the leftist koolaid poured down their throats in college. And I’d also blame Hollywood for villifying business over the past several decades.
These clowns actually believe that they’re going to help America by taking even more money away from the job creators and handing to an organization that has proven itself inefficient at handling money…the United States Government.
This is the exact opposite direction that we need to be heading!
I’d like everyone who thinks that taking more from the wealthy is the answer to take a look at this video it might be an eye opener: