Pres Debate: 10/16/2012

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
401

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I want to see Romney win to watch Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow explode, why does that guy look like one of the original Lil Rascals grown up, but not fully grown up. [/quote]

Great characterization of Matthews lol. Almost poetic, and viscerally true.

The truth is, I despise partisanship, and I very much look forward to the partisan meltdown regardless of who wins in November. Matthews’ breakdown will be just as terrific as the one over at Fox if their man loses.

The funny thing is that Fox should be rooting for Obama and MSNBC should be in Romney’s corner, because ratings are driven by anger better than by complacency.

The only time this excitement wouldn’t apply for me is when I actually feel like the country may be in danger (Palin, Cain). I don’t feel that way this time. I see two relatively competent and intelligent politicians who in times past haven’t exactly differed all that much from each other. I don’t see a savior–or a catastrophe–in either of them. The recovery will do what recoveries do and continue to slowly fix things, and the pain of recession will slowly fade in the rearview mirror (until it ends up in front of us again, because in this country we drive in circles).

Or, the Euro fails and China and Japan go to war over a couple of uninhabitable rocks and the world economy comes down in a pile of rubble and flames. In which case we at T-Nation all have a leg up on the competition in dystopia.

403

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

You said “the have not’s would like to get more any way they can.”

I fundamentally disagree with that. Only the lowest of low really want to hit someone over the head and take their money. And that is what you suggest by that statement. Most people understand that working hard and smart is the way to get ahead.
[/quote]

You’re right; that’s where we disagree.

No, most people – even most “have nots” – don’t want to hit you over the head to take your money.

But many – and perhaps most “have nots” – are more than happy to have the government do it on their behalf so that they can have more.

Or are you claiming that most “have not” recipients of your tax dollars feel guilty about taking your money? [/quote]

I guess we’re going to have to define what a “have not” is. We might have been talking about two different groups of people.

404

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
No ZEB I am not too sensitive I just was having a conversation this whole time and thank you for having one back (it was a good time) and yes I would vote for Romney but not because of anything you said. No I do not know you I do not presume to know anything about you except that your a hard working American who started his own business with blood, sweat and tears.

Thanks for the informative discussion full of polite discourse. We proved 2 people can have a conversation.[/quote]

Voting for Romney huh?

Excellent!

What state are you from I want to see how much of a difference you can make.

405

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
No ZEB I am not too sensitive I just was having a conversation this whole time and thank you for having one back (it was a good time) and yes I would vote for Romney but not because of anything you said. No I do not know you I do not presume to know anything about you except that your a hard working American who started his own business with blood, sweat and tears.

Thanks for the informative discussion full of polite discourse. We proved 2 people can have a conversation.[/quote]

Voting for Romney huh?

Excellent!

What state are you from I want to see how much of a difference you can make.[/quote]

It won’t make a difference at all

406

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
No ZEB I am not too sensitive I just was having a conversation this whole time and thank you for having one back (it was a good time) and yes I would vote for Romney but not because of anything you said. No I do not know you I do not presume to know anything about you except that your a hard working American who started his own business with blood, sweat and tears.

Thanks for the informative discussion full of polite discourse. We proved 2 people can have a conversation.[/quote]

Voting for Romney huh?

Excellent!

What state are you from I want to see how much of a difference you can make.[/quote]

It won’t make a difference at all[/quote]

Don’t live in a battle ground state huh?

Too bad…

407

I really like Sean Bielat’s background though: Marine, BA, MPA from Harvard and MBA from Wharton. Kinda sucks his business is a political website and not something with more growth potential.

408

About Bielat "The son of a teacher and a veteran, Sean grew up in a middle class family and worked his way through college and graduate school with the help of the GI Bill, scholarships and student loans. Sean holds an MBA from Wharton and degrees from Harvard University and Georgetown University. "

The GI Bill goes back to my education argument from prior as well. GI Bill not meritless as mentioned so long as you have initiative.

409

“…The funny thing is that Fox should be rooting for Obama and MSNBC should be in Romney’s corner, because ratings are driven by anger better than by complacency…”

I agree 100%, smh.

While each side will still have something to bitch and moan about “the other side”; there is no debate whatsoever that from a purely business/ratings standpoint; I don’t see how MSNBC and FOXnews CAN’T be secretely rooting for “the other guy”.

One last thing.

I often say that the best thing to happen to the Conservative Movement in years was the election of President Barack Obama.

Mufasa

410

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
“…The funny thing is that Fox should be rooting for Obama and MSNBC should be in Romney’s corner, because ratings are driven by anger better than by complacency…”

I agree 100%, smh.

While each side will still have something to bitch and moan about “the other side”; there is no debate whatsoever that from a purely business/ratings standpoint; I don’t see how MSNBC and FOXnews CAN’T be secretely rooting for “the other guy”.

One last thing.

I often say that the best thing to happen to the Conservative Movement in years was the election of President Barack Obama.

Mufasa [/quote]

Yeah…but what does that really say?

411

Whatever it says, Zeb…I’m pretty sure that it’s something negative about the President.

Am I wrong?

Mufasa

412

Mufasa

I recall the election of 2008 fragmented the Republic party. The pundits were saying the Republican party was in its death throes. I agree with Mufasa that Obama’s election unified the party to a certain degree around his opposition. Pre-2008 the party was becoming disjointed as the market began to slow, foreign policy was a mess, the size of government increased under compassionate conservatism and the party had to deal with McCain and his issues such as the Savings and Loans scandal of the past and the Sarah Palin farce.

*** I have a question when did the federal government put the two wars on the books and what is the truth regarding the public sector accounting of both Middle East Wars. There is rhetoric that Bush did not account for the wars during his term and Obama did account for them which led to a dramatic increase in debt during his term because he followed proper public sector accounting principles. Is there any truth or merit to any of this? I would not be surprised either way.

413

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Whatever it says, Zeb…I’m pretty sure that it’s something negative about the President.

Am I wrong?

Mufasa[/quote]

Still waiting for you to answer my question about why anyone who operates a small business (small businesses employ up to 60% of the entire workforce) would do anything but lower wages, raise prices and hunker down and not expand if there were a second Obama term.

When you answer that I will answer your question.

Fair enough?

414

I pondered the question…a LOT, Zeb…and while a lot of people in the Cyber-World don’t mind posting whatever crap they think…I TRY to at least give things some thought.

I still probably post stuff that people find utterly ridiculous…but at least I try to give it some thought.

The idea that you would hire, fire and decrease people’s pay based on whether or not the President was re-elected is disturbing and disconcerting, especially if there are many business owners with the same mindset.

However…it ultimately is YOUR business; YOUR time and money; and YOUR effort that built what you have…leaving me with very little to debate on the issue .

Mufasa

415

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

The idea that you would hire, fire and decrease people’s pay based on whether or not the President was re-elected is disturbing and disconcerting, especially if there are many business owners with the same mindset.

[/quote]

You left out an important part of the equation Mufasa. The President of the United States has threatened to raise taxes on small business people. He has also told me, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” He’s passed a health insurance law that will cost me a great deal of money as well. And the regulations that have been passed since he’s been in office that harm small business are numerous. In short while I am in the highest income bracket and pay every penny each year the President told me, “you are not paying your fair share.”

Well…my response is simple.

I have donated the maximum amount allowed by law to the Romney campaign. And I will further donate what I can directly to the Ohio state republican party and donate into other state party’s where the election is close. I’ve also volunteered to drive people to the polls and I’ve (politely) asked my employees, friends and family to do the same. And I’m happy to say they are all on board. Obviously, politics is a team effort. But should Obama lose a close election I’d like to think that it was one of my dollars that helped defeat him!

And trust me I am not alone.

But I ask you, what would you do if the President of the United States had looked directly at you and said, “I don’t like you Mufasa and I’m going to get you…” How would you feel? Well, now you know how I and the many small business people across the United States feel.

So when you comment on how I state that I am going to reduce wages, raise prices and not expand should Obama be reelected make sure that you have the complete picture.

418

Zeb:

Your whole statement is full of hyperbole, extreme partisanship and mis-characterization of what the President has said and hopes for.

But guess what? This is America; what you’ve built is yours; and what you do with what you’ve built is your right. What I may or may not think is irrelevant.

As I’ve said, I think your efforts will be rewarded with an Romney win.

If Romney and his Policies is what America needs to get out of this mess, only time will tell.

Mufasa

419

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Whatever it says, Zeb…I’m pretty sure that it’s something negative about the President.

Am I wrong?

Mufasa[/quote]

I remember watching the 2004 Presidential race, while in the pokey, and when the final results were in, the guy next to me mumbled (with the background noise rumbling about GW Bush winning 51-49), “Mr. fucking President, still half the country can’t stand you…”

420

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

The idea that you would hire, fire and decrease people’s pay based on whether or not the President was re-elected is disturbing and disconcerting, especially if there are many business owners with the same mindset.

[/quote]

You left out an important part of the equation Mufasa. The President of the United States has threatened to raise taxes on small business people. He has also told me, “you didn’t build that someone else did it for you…” He’s passed a health insurance law that will cost me a great deal of money as well. And the regulations that have been passed since he’s been in office that harm small business are numerous. In short while I am in the highest income bracket and pay every penny each year the President told me, “you are not paying your fair share.”

Well…my response is simple.

I have donated the maximum amount allowed by law to the Romney campaign. And I will further donate what I can directly to the Ohio state republican party and donate into other state party’s where the election is close. I’ve also volunteered to drive people to the polls and I’ve (politely) asked my employees, friends and family to do the same. And I’m happy to say they are all on board. Obviously, politics is a team effort. But should Obama lose a close election I’d like to think that it was one of my dollars that helped defeat him!

And trust me I am not alone.

But I ask you, what would you do if the President of the United States had looked directly at you and said, “I don’t like you Mufasa and I’m going to get you…” How would you feel? Well, now you know how I and the many small business people across the United States feel.

So when you comment on how I state that I am going to reduce wages, raise prices and not expand should Obama be reelected make sure that you have the complete picture.[/quote]

Zeb: I don’t and wil probably never own a small business, so I defer to you on this topic and respect the success you’ve had. And you know a hell of a lot more than me about the regulations on small business, etc.

One thing: the President said you didn’t build the bridges and internet infrastructure on which you business relies. That you did it, but you didn’t do it alone. It is a point so banal and obvious that it approaches platitudinousness, and it would have remained so if not for some very opportunistic manufactured outrage.

Your posts are usually about 80 percent dead on and 20 percent talk-radio talking points. The latter always undermine the former.