Prepare for the Next Attack

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:
I don’t doubt the Muslim history that you have discussed, but don’t act like your religion is free of rank violence and slaughter. Kudos to Christianity though, for moving out of the stone age.
[/quote]

where have we denied our religion is free of violence and slaughter and what does it matter? We are talking about the history of violent Muslims.

case in point:

All you history buffs ever hear of a guy named Caliph Hakim, who before the Crusades, presecuted and tried to exterminate the Christians in Syria?

He was a Fatimid ruler and if you know anything about history, one group the Crusaders were fighting were the Fatimids.

The Muslims attacked Christian lands first. The Byzantine lands were systematically being over run by Muslims. And after 4 centuries of this, the Europeans got involved to stop the Muslim advances and doing so, attacked in force.

So it seems like a double standard is being applied. When Muslims attack Europe, Africa, The Christian lands in the Middle East, Persia, India, Central Asia and the outskirts of China it’s ok…maybe the “religion of peace” they talk about, you know the guys sitting around drinking tea and doing algebra… those guys.

But when the Crusaders attempt to take back lost land and stop muslim military advances, suddenly we talk about atrocities and blood thirsty barbarians and what not.

Funny, i seem to recall a guy named Hakim, or maybe a group called the Khwarazians who attacked Crusader-held-Jerusalem and killed every living person. . . . .

Those are parts of the Crusades which get glossed over somehow…[/quote]

So you arbitrarily begin history when the Byzantine empire got attacked and yet ignore that he Roman empire conquered this areas before that?

This is much like the justifications for Americas aggressive foreign policies, history always seems to start when America is “attacked” and not a single minute before that.

102

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.

103

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.
[/quote]

ORLY?

Where would you have rather lived as a Jew or a woman or a peasant, in medeaval Europe or in the califates?

104

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.
[/quote]

ORLY?

Where would you have rather lived as a Jew or a woman or a peasant, in medeaval Europe or in the califates?

[/quote]

Europe.

105

What is with the love affair you Lew Rockwell types have with Islam? Islam-the Islam that was left by Muhammad-is completely and totally incompatible with the West. It’s not my fault, nor Irishsteel’s fault. Maybe there’ll be a New Islamtestament which abrogates the Political/Military-Theocractic stuff, but I wouldn’t count on it. Of course, I’m grateful there are muslims who are in self-denial about the faith Muhammad DID leave them with.

By the way, for all the cheerleading given to Irishsteel’s opponents, why is noone actually disputing the history he’s sharing? Funny, when the history of the crusades and west-Islam conflict are fleshed out (after the usual “Muslims were at home just minding their business” gets pulled), not a damn one of you is honest enough to voice the relief you feel for the preservation of Europe, and, therefore the West as we know it.

Your utopian Rockwellian fantasies somehow have you convinced Europe’s, thus the West’s existence, was just a given. A Law of the Cosmos, I guess. You couldn’t possibly be sitting in a Europe shaped by Islamic custom and Law. No, never. Get off the guilt trip.

106

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.
[/quote]

ORLY?

Where would you have rather lived as a Jew or a woman or a peasant, in medeaval Europe or in the califates?

[/quote]

Europe.[/quote]

I guess if you enjoy a short, nasty and disease ridden live, that is actually the right choice.

And of course the constant warfare, raping and pillaging of the local feudal lords.

107

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.
[/quote]

ORLY?

Where would you have rather lived as a Jew or a woman or a peasant, in medeaval Europe or in the califates?

[/quote]

Europe.[/quote]

I guess if you enjoy a short, nasty and disease ridden live, that is actually the right choice.

And of course the constant warfare, raping and pillaging of the local feudal lords.

[/quote]

Right, because the Caliphate existed over land that’d been in it’s possesion since the beginning of time. Or, no, it was just handed over to them by some very charitable people!

108

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sorry, Christianity and Islam can’t be compared. Human nature is rather brutal in the first place. So, atrocities will be a reoccuring theme throughout past and present regardless of the existence, or non-existence, of any religion. Men kill over being “disrespected,” for crying out loud. Now, if you’re looking at the fundamental instruction of Christ to his Apostles and audiences, instruction on how to spread the “good news,” and you contrast that with Muhammad…

Deal with it. The “Prophet” started a Military-Political-Theological force. Accept it and move on, folks. It’s foolish to not admit this. Is the scarlet “R” really this scary? Raaaaaaaaacist![/quote]

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Bwahaha.
[/quote]

ORLY?

Where would you have rather lived as a Jew or a woman or a peasant, in medeaval Europe or in the califates?

[/quote]

Europe.[/quote]

I guess if you enjoy a short, nasty and disease ridden live, that is actually the right choice.

And of course the constant warfare, raping and pillaging of the local feudal lords.

[/quote]

Right, because the Caliphate existed over land that’d been in it’s possesion since the beginning of time. Or, no, it was just handed over to them by some very charitable people![/quote]

So?

That is true for all governmnents, everywhere, always.

109

[quote]Sloth wrote:
What is with the love affair you Lew Rockwell types have with Islam? Islam-the Islam that was left by Muhammad-is completely and totally incompatible with the West. It’s not my fault, nor Irishsteel’s fault. Maybe there’ll be a New Islamtestament which abrogates the Political/Military-Theocractic stuff, but I wouldn’t count on it. Of course, I’m grateful there are muslims who are in self-denial about the faith Muhammad DID leave them with.

By the way, for all the cheerleading given to Irishsteel’s opponents, why is noone actually disputing the history he’s sharing? Funny, when the history of the crusades and west-Islam conflict are fleshed out (after the usual “Muslims were at home just minding their business” gets pulled), not a damn one of you is honest enough to voice the relief you feel for the preservation of Europe, and, therefore the West as we know it. Your utopian Rockwellian fantasies somehow have you convinced the Europe, thus the West’s existence, was just a given. A law of the Cosmos, I guess. You couldn’t possibly be sitting in a Europe shaped by Islamic custom and Law. No, never. Get off the guilt trip. [/quote]

Bingo, we have a winner, best post of the thread, nice to see you around Sloth, unnlike some in this thread.

110

[quote]orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Right, because the Caliphate existed over land that’d been in it’s possesion since the beginning of time. Or, no, it was just handed over to them by some very charitable people!

So?

That is true for all governmnents, everywhere, always.
[/quote]

Err, you don’t think they were slaving, pillaging, raping, and subjugating to get, add to, and maintain their lands? I can post muslim scholars who wrote gleefully about such actions, for crying out loud. So, what the hell was your point about jews in Europe, as compared to some Walt Disney version of Islam’s treatment of the peoples it conquered and subjugated? Let me guess, Europe was to blame anyways due to the lack of free trade. It’s always, always!, the answer with you guys.

[quote]So?

That is true for all governmnents, everywhere, always.[/quote]

Well, yeah. Governments are comprised of people. With or without governments, we’d slaughter each other at the slightest of insults, imagined or real.

111

[quote]aussie486 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
What is with the love affair you Lew Rockwell types have with Islam? Islam-the Islam that was left by Muhammad-is completely and totally incompatible with the West. It’s not my fault, nor Irishsteel’s fault. Maybe there’ll be a New Islamtestament which abrogates the Political/Military-Theocractic stuff, but I wouldn’t count on it. Of course, I’m grateful there are muslims who are in self-denial about the faith Muhammad DID leave them with.

By the way, for all the cheerleading given to Irishsteel’s opponents, why is noone actually disputing the history he’s sharing? Funny, when the history of the crusades and west-Islam conflict are fleshed out (after the usual “Muslims were at home just minding their business” gets pulled), not a damn one of you is honest enough to voice the relief you feel for the preservation of Europe, and, therefore the West as we know it. Your utopian Rockwellian fantasies somehow have you convinced the Europe, thus the West’s existence, was just a given. A law of the Cosmos, I guess. You couldn’t possibly be sitting in a Europe shaped by Islamic custom and Law. No, never. Get off the guilt trip. [/quote]

Bingo, we have a winner, best post of the thread, nice to see you around Sloth, unnlike some in this thread.
[/quote]

Howdy!

113

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

So you arbitrarily begin history when the Byzantine empire got attacked and yet ignore that he Roman empire conquered this areas before that?

This is much like the justifications for Americas aggressive foreign policies, history always seems to start when America is “attacked” and not a single minute before that.
[/quote]

No, we’re talking about Muslims here, not Romans.

If you want to make a thead about Roman atrocities that’s fine.

114

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

I guess if you enjoy a short, nasty and disease ridden live, that is actually the right choice.

And of course the constant warfare, raping and pillaging of the local feudal lords.

[/quote]

Like there wasn’t constant warfare and pillaging in Muslim held territories…? For Godsake they attacked and pilliaged India for 700 freaking years till they finally conquered it!

115

[quote]Sloth wrote:
some Walt Disney version of Islam’s treatment of the peoples it conquered and subjugated? [quote]

Excellent quote…exactly!

edit- on a minor note, sorry about screwing up the quotes.

116

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

So you arbitrarily begin history when the Byzantine empire got attacked and yet ignore that he Roman empire conquered this areas before that?

This is much like the justifications for Americas aggressive foreign policies, history always seems to start when America is “attacked” and not a single minute before that.
[/quote]

No, we’re talking about Muslims here, not Romans.

If you want to make a thead about Roman atrocities that’s fine.

[/quote]

The Byzantine Empire WAS the Roman empire.

How do you think they built their empire that was then conquered by the Ottoman empire?

117

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

So you arbitrarily begin history when the Byzantine empire got attacked and yet ignore that he Roman empire conquered this areas before that?

This is much like the justifications for Americas aggressive foreign policies, history always seems to start when America is “attacked” and not a single minute before that.
[/quote]

No, we’re talking about Muslims here, not Romans.

If you want to make a thead about Roman atrocities that’s fine.

[/quote]

well its relevant to the topic.

the point is that the arabs took the power over the eastern parts of bysant from an allien power.

118

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[/quote]

I guess if you enjoy a short, nasty and disease ridden live, that is actually the right choice.

And of course the constant warfare, raping and pillaging of the local feudal lords.

[/quote]

Like there wasn’t constant warfare and pillaging in Muslim held territories…? For Godsake they attacked and pilliaged India for 700 freaking years till they finally conquered it!

[/quote]

it was not the same muslims who attacked india for hundreds of years.

in the 700s it was the arabs. later it was the turks. and finally in the 1500s the moguls came to power.

119

[quote]orion wrote:

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Do you really want to go here? really? Want to have the discussion about Islam’s long and still ongoing slave trade? Want to have the discussion about the Muslim sex slave trade? Want to to have the discussion about the rampant racism towards blacks in Muslim history? Want to have the discussion about the way Islam treated the tribes of the Near East, Europe and Asia? Want to have the discussion about the actual way women are treated with Islam?

Let’s go further back and do you want to know what the prophet himself had to say on all of these issues?

Say the word, and I will flood you with the facts!

120

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

But he also started a religion that did not discriminate because of race or membership to a tribe, treated other religions and women very well and that was able to prevent internal conflict to a large degree.

That is also the nature of Islam and you chose to ignore that.

[/quote]

Do you really want to go here? really? Want to have the discussion about Islam’s long and still ongoing slave trade? Want to have the discussion about the Muslim sex slave trade? Want to to have the discussion about the rampant racism towards blacks in Muslim history? Want to have the discussion about the way Islam treated the tribes of the Near East, Europe and Asia? Want to have the discussion about the actual way women are treated with Islam?

Let’s go further back and do you want to know what the prophet himself had to say on all of these issues?

Say the word, and I will flood you with the facts![/quote]

Do that, as long as you compare it to everything else that existed back then.

Those people were hundreds of years ahead of the European barbarians.