Precision Nutrition Article?

Nutrition
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Hey Guys I just read the Precision Nutrition Article(from '98) and I would like to know what alot of the seasoned guys on here think about its reccomendations for calories as well as protein grams and macro breakdown…considering I am 5’11 296 and close to 30% bf, but would like to preserve as much muscle as possible when I drop weight…I am a slow to a slow-Mod metabolism and about 197 lbs of LBM…

Here was my calcs for losing fat from his formulas

2039 calories

550 Protein cals 137 g
1060 Carbs cals 265g
428 Fat cals 47.5

and approx
44 protein and 88 carbs in the PWO shake prolly split in two…

Heres the article

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=25preci

I am doing 3 weight workouts a week(lactic acid training by Charles P)

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[quote]Pugsley wrote:
Hey Guys I just read the Precision Nutrition Article(from '98) and I would like to know what alot of the seasoned guys on here think about its reccomendations for calories as well as protein grams and macro breakdown…considering I am 5’11 296 and close to 30% bf, but would like to preserve as much muscle as possible when I drop weight…I am a slow to a slow-Mod metabolism and about 197 lbs of LBM…

Here was my calcs for losing fat from his formulas

2039 calories

550 Protein cals 137 g
1060 Carbs cals 265g
428 Fat cals 47.5

and approx
44 protein and 88 carbs in the PWO shake prolly split in two…

Heres the article

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=25preci

I am doing 3 weight workouts a week(lactic acid training by Charles P)[/quote]

BRO all that is way the hell low 2000 calories for a 300lb person hell even trying to shed a few lbs my goodness. that and protein id aim for 1g per lb fat .4-.6g

I think youd be better served either finding your maint level and seeing as your 100lbs of fat drop intake 500 caloires to start that will have you losing ata good rate you can afford to early as yopu are carrying so much fuel. get your protin and fats in and make up the rest with GOOD carbs fruits and veggeis

you might look at t-dawg 2.0

Phill

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if that is the case then where was this guy coming from with his reccomendations…Thib, Berardi, Lowery, Shugs, Barr… Anyone?

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If you’re wondering about the quality of the advice, Phill knows his stuff.

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you also must remember that article is seven years old and well they find new things daily let alone after 7 years that change their stance. T-dawg however well theyve talked about changes or trying to rewrite a new version of the 2.0 version but it has just been so solid and seems to always work they have not found revisions to make really. you can tweek it to you.

Even Mr. Stout I would have to beleive would NOT put someone 297 lbs on a 2000 calorie diet long term thats Insane and asking for major down regulation of your metabolic functions and in time other body processes and if kept up LONG term meaning leading to issue you would have to address and take time to fix.

Phill

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I am thinkng of bumping cals up to 2500 and starting from there and adjusting…since I have just came off a very low cal type diet…

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I correct myself…I tried to consume 23-2400 cals today and I had to forcefeed myself! I am coming off a low cal diet…so I had to forcefeed myself the cals

Heres the breakdown of my meals

Breakfast
1.25 cups egg beaters and peppers and .25 lbs of chiken breast mixed in
2 servings of quaker rolled oats
10g of Brown sugar splenda
a small bit of smart beat butter/margerine subs

Breakfast Cals= 590 cals protein 65
69 carbs fat minimal

Meal 2 (5 hours later after reading 21st century nutrition)

A couple cups of Spinach with .65 lbs of chicken breast plus fat free dressing

2 servings quaker oats
BS splenda

Butter marg subs

Cals: 495 cals (p and c meal) 80 protein 65 carbs minimal fats

The last three meals of the day are comprised of 3 whey isolate and concentrate protein shakes each with a tablespoon of Smart Balance Omega PB

totaling
about 820 cals 32 fats 111 protein and 23 carbs

Total day approx 2300-2400 cals 260-270 pro ~200 carbs and 56 fats

whats your take of this

I split up the p/c p/f meals the best I could and following dave barrs articles with the bigger meals I waited a few hours longer cause there was still protein floating in my system with that much food…Also according to Berardi(I think) I Consumed a siginificantly larger breakfast and earlier meals and it really curbes your appetite! Then progressing to smaller and more protein and fat oriented meals later in the day…

I will measure myself and see where this goes after a week and adjust my cals accordingly…

What you guys think?

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Hey, Pugsley!

It may take a while for your appetite to pick. When it does, you can give yourself a pat on the back for kicking your metabolism back into overdrive.

The five meals you’re eating is good! Considering the amount of food you need to be eating, you might want to consider six meals, eating every 3 hours.

I’d like to see you getting some more variety in your diet. Write down 6 different protein sources. You could definitely have a protein drink for one of your six meals and chicken another. Go ahead and pick out 4 more protein sources.

Don’t rely entirely on Smart Balance to meet your good fat requirements. Try to get some good fat in the form of flaxseed oil, olive oil and fish oil (capsules). Shoot for 2 tablespoons of olive oil per day and 2 tablespoons of flaxseed oil per day. A good number for the amount of fat you should be eating each day is 118g of fat. The olive oil (2 tablespoons = 28g) and flaxseed oil (2 tablespoons = 28g) should be deducted from that 118g of fat.

As far as how much protein you should be eating, you should be getting 49g per meal. That’s going to be hard in the beginning. Try for 40g per meal and raise it as your appetite increases/improves.

Since appetite and metabolism are a bit depressed right now, if it’s possible, try to get out and do some walking. I like walking because it’s not too hard on the joints, it burns a few calories, elevates mood and reinforces the commitments we make to ourselves and our goals to improve our health and appearance.

When appetite does improve, start trying to fit in some more fibrous green veggies, fruit and beans. You should be eating something off that list each and every meal.

Does any of that help? Questions? (grin)

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Would it make a difference if that oatmeal was eaten at night or afternoon? I think oatmeal and the protein is gonna be the easiest route…is the variety for my sanity or for weight loss purposes? I have a good recipe for some healthy chili with kidney beans and black beans and chicken I can make as well as some homemade protein bars…

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Good questions! (grin)

Variety is important for health. You’re less likely to develop a food intolerance and more likely to meet all of your nutritional requirements. That means things like energy and mood will be better. You also increase your odds of LONG-TERM success because if you’re living on oatmeal and chicken, eventually your body is going to rebel, and you will fall off the (diet) wagon and go back to your old ways.

If it’s a time thing, we should kick that around a little bit and look for ways to make this work for you. My trick there is to make sure I do a lot of cooking one day a week. Let’s use that chili you mentioned as an example.

If you need to eat 40g of protein per meal and wanted to make your chili with lean ground beef you’d need 7 ounces of 95% lean ground beef raw to meet your per-meal protein requirements. If you wanted to make yourself 10 servings, I’d measure out 70 ounces of lean ground beef and 10 cups of beans. Add the flavoring, water, onions, stewed tomatoes, and whatever else you like to add to your chili and cook it in a large pot. When it’s done cooking, allow it to cool and divide it into 10 Tupperware/Rubbermade containers. Freeze 9 of the 10 portions. What you did is cooked once, but you now have 10 meals that will meet your requirements that you don’t even have to look up.

When you make oatmeal for yourself, make 7 servings and divide it up into Tupperware containers. And in case you were wondering, no, I don’t own any stock in Tupperware. (grin)

Do you have a George Foreman grill? They’re awesome!!! I have a big one, and I can cook a bunch of steak or pork or boneless chicken breasts or fish. When you do cook, cook in multiples and refrigerate or freeze the other portions. That way when you wake up and you’re running late, all you have to do is grab a few Tupperware containers of food and dash out the door.

You have to look for ways to make your food taste good, even if you are on a diet, and you have to look for ways to make it fit into your lifestyle. If you don’t, you’re not going to be able to stick with it for the long haul.

More questions? (grin)

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can you give me some ideas for other food sources…I also have medium grain brown rice…and yes I do have a foreman and I have made up to twenty servings of the chili at a time!

I am also going to be making some of those bodybuilder bon bons that shugs talks about and some homemade protein bars…what other things can I do?

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I eat 5 meals a day, but if I were eating 6, I’d pick different protein sources. Some are fast and easy

  • Cottage cheese & fruit
  • Chili w/ bean & a protein source
  • Tuna in a can or packet
  • Protein powder in a Rubbermaid drink bottle (just add water)
  • Pre-cooked shrimp
  • Hard boiled eggs
  • Jerky & nuts
  • Deli meat w/ spicy mustard wrapped around a scallion or two (an inside-out sandwich without bread)

Other protein sources I like are pork, turkey, lean ground beef, lamb, salmon, fish of almost any description.

There isn’t any reason you couldn’t cook a turkey once a week (.69 a pound at Wal-Mart). I’ll buy pork on sale (.59 a pound a couple of weeks ago).

If you like Fajitas, buy the package of flavoring, cook the meat and throw it over the top of a salad. Who said you had to eat it with tortillas and sour cream and guacamole. (grin) And like I said, don’t cook just a serving or two. Buy 3 or 4 packets and make at least a half dozen servings.

You definitely don’t need to be flavored deprived just because you’re on a diet. And even those of us who have little discretionary time can find ways to eat healthy if we get smart and organized with our time.

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Heres what I had today guys…tampa terry let me know what you think!

Two of my first three meals were comprised of Chicken breast and Brown rice:
Approx(each) 490 cals 51 protein 58 carbs 6 Fat= Total 980 102 pro 116 carbs 12 fat

The meal that I separated the two with was
a whey isolate/concetrate blend:

260 cals 50 protein 3.5 fat and 7 carbs

The next meal was 4 Bodybuilder bons bons

472 cals 32 protein 15 carbs 36 fats (flax seeds and natural pb)

I had a homemade protein bar as a snack about an hour later cause I was taking a 4 hour nap!
118 cals 13.6 protein 8.4 carbs 4.3 fats

Next meal another chicken and rice dish with some broccoli and ff dressing to dip in…

515 51p 58c and 6f

Last meal was after a 20 mins ab workout (I know not post workout quality, but I am about to go to bed!)

.5 cup 2% Cottage cheese , one scoop protein powder, and 4 ounces of OJ…

195 cals 25 protein 20-25 carbs

Total Approx: 2551 274 pro 236 carbs 66Fats

Any suggestions if I should have done this differently?

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hey pugs, i’m still learning too, but you asked if it matters when you eat your oatmeal and the answer is yes. there are some very good articles on this subject here. i’ve been reading for days now, lol. anyways, oatmeal is a carb source so you want to eat that in the morning since you wake up after an 8 hour fast and your body is nutrient deficient. or you can eat it within two hours after your workout. it’s easier for your body to break down the carbs then. http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=629609
#27 i believe is where i got that. alot of good articles. i hope this helps and good luck…

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looks like I dropped about two pounds total from last week and between .5 to 1% of BF (based upon upper and lower measurement figures…)

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well guys I have some very shocking news…to all who were saying my cals were too low…you were right…very right

I am not sure if it is just a rebound…But despite consuming mostly brown rice and oatmeal as my carbs about 200-250 g a day depending on workout or Non Workout…

Despite being about 2300-2500 cals a day since Thursday…I have gone from 302 at night on weds (I had a fresh meal in my stomach so maybe take away 2 pounds or so) To this morning I was shocked when I was at 294.6! Thats an 6-8 pound drop in three days by increasing my calories by 1000-1300 a day and adding more carbs! I am still shocked! Whats your take on this?..

I got sidetracked if anyone is wondering last weekend I was 296.5 and balooned up to 302 on weds night…hence the big difference…but net loss is about 2 pounds…

I think I will stick with the rice and oatmeal (These are part of P and C meals which I predominantly have in the mornings then switch to P and F at nights) for 2-3 of 6 meals and see if this keeps me losing to a normal 2-3 lbs a week…if I does Ill keep it that way I geuss!

Let me know whats your guys take on this?!

My second question is what goes on in the body when you push it to the limit physically…I am going to be using Thibs running man program for my cardio…well tonight was my first night…

Here What I did and heres what happened…

I wen into the gym and did about 4 sets of heavy lat pull downs and two sets of heavy cable curls…was plenty warmed up then hit the pavement…given its 11:55 pm and 30 degrees f in Greensboro NC…Cold!

I found along empty parking lot and did a 50 meter sprint and ran another 100 meters (remember my out of shapness and extra weight and also lack of cardio conditioning in the past 5 years)…

What ensued after this was horrible! I did a full out sprint at 295 pounds for about 200 meters maybe a tad less…I got into my car and my heart and lungs were pounding! I drop back to my Apt a few blocks away in a state of very lightheadedness and like I was going to throw up…

I barely climbed the stairs (3 flights) and literally fell down on the couch with my heart pounding and breathing super heavy and sweating alot…(my engine hadn’t had its afterburners turned on like that in years!

I literally fell asleep in deep deep relaxation for the next 35-40 mins to come back to my senses and I was like "Man I feel all better now like I can stand up again!)

What causes this lightheadedness and feeling like I am gonna pass out? I used to feel like this when I was doing Fat Fast and German Body Comp (BAD BAD COMBO!!) I felt dazed and like I was gonna pass out if I didnt lay down…

Do you think its more of an insulin and nutrient thing, or a fact that blood was rushed towards these muscles very very quickly and a lack of oxygen to my brain?

After I layed down and my heart slowed down a bit I was fine and could stand up but before that I felt like I was gonna pass out…

Id like to get feedback on both of these things

thanks again!
Chris

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i don’t know much about nothing, but what i do know is weigh yourself when you wake up in the mornings before your first meal nekid. same time every day. anything else doesn’t count. also, the scale will be off a little bit so don’t sweat a pound here or a pound there. just my $.02

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I have weighed in the mornings week to week…both on an empty stomach…My scale is very very accurate…to 2 tenthes of a pound…I can weigh myself once and get a weight then come back an hour later and then again two hours later and its the same with no variances…

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Pugsley,

First off, congratulations on deciding to get into better shape.

As for the diet, consistency is really the key. The experts on here such as Berardi, Barr and Lowery all know their stuff. But be careful mixing and matching their recommendations since each has his own theories and in the case of JB and LL these theories are developed into a system.

Even though the recommendations are ~90% the same, people tend to focus on the variances, and adding these variances all together…, well it basically screws up the systems.

That said, it sounds like the best system for you (based on your preferences in previous posts) is Lowery’s, since it includes morning carb feedings. So take a look at the Temporal Nutrition series.

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As for the physical activity and your lightheadedness.

Could you please give us a summary of what you’ve been doing (activitywise) prior to and since deciding to drop weight.

It sounds like you just started right into the sprinting from doing nothing. If so, I don’t think this is a good idea.

If you’re new to weight training, I’d recommend finding someone (a personal trainer or a friend) to take you around the weightroom.

As for a program, read up on this site but also consider picking up a copy of Alwyn Cosgrove’s “New Rules of Lifting”. The book is a good easy read and has a years worth of programs (with exercise descriptions).

Good luck.