I was going to say the same thing ecupirate said. And then I thought to myself “No way someone interested in the powerlifting world doesn’t know Jason Pegg. They must know each other”. lol
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
Doesnt matter. Whatever you want.
Jason[/quote]
Perhaps…If you are competitive, you should train in the shoes you will compete it.
[/quote]
I compete. Still doesn’t matter. I’m going to wear my vibrams at the meet in April just to prove it.
Jason[/quote]
And you train in your VFFs regularly…just like I said.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
Doesnt matter. Whatever you want.
Jason[/quote]
Perhaps…If you are competitive, you should train in the shoes you will compete it.
[/quote]
I compete. Still doesn’t matter. I’m going to wear my vibrams at the meet in April just to prove it.
Jason[/quote]
And you train in your VFFs regularly…just like I said.
[/quote]
And my flip flops, and my work boots, and some old running shoes, and some OL shoes, and some METAL shoes. You’re looking too deep here. Just like I said, Its not important. Of all the training variables you can control, shoes are on par with which knee you wrap first and what color your belt is, as far as importance.
Jason
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Vibrams or skateboarding shoes. Or pink ugg slippers.[/quote]
A 700# deadlift in pink ugg slippers would make for an epic video…
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
Doesnt matter. Whatever you want.
Jason[/quote]
Perhaps…If you are competitive, you should train in the shoes you will compete it.
[/quote]
I compete. Still doesn’t matter. I’m going to wear my vibrams at the meet in April just to prove it.
Jason[/quote]
And you train in your VFFs regularly…just like I said.
[/quote]
And my flip flops, and my work boots, and some old running shoes, and some OL shoes, and some METAL shoes. You’re looking too deep here. Just like I said, Its not important. Of all the training variables you can control, shoes are on par with which knee you wrap first and what color your belt is, as far as importance.
Jason
[/quote]
Well, I know who you are but I still have to say that this just isn’t true at all. No one should ever be squatting in running shoes. It took me time to adjust to different shoes when I started using my wrestling shoes for a while. I eventually went back to converse because I was more comfortable squatting in them. Maybe you should be saying that the shoes you wear while squatting doesn’t matter for you, but you can’t just make blanket statements like that and say that they apply to anyone who squats.
When I was first learning to squat years ago, I used running shoes and eventually plateaud. I kept ending up leaning forward out of the hole, with my heels up and knees going in whenever the weight got heavy. I tried to adjust my technique but the problems stayed. As soon as I got the advice to switch to converse, all of those problems went away and I was able to make continued progress on my squats.
Matters more for some, less for some. Jason is a good squatter and he doesn’t even bother tying his laces. Tuchscherer is a good squatter and he’s very picky about footwear. It’s hard for someone else to determine whether OL shoes or flat shoes will be best for you, it’s probably one of those things you’ll have to figure out yourself. Just pick a pair of shoes and if you don’t like them try another pair, it’s not that hard. The most important thing is to stay away from shoes with squishy soles, other than that it’s all down to personal preference.
Personally I like a bit of a heel, not as high as some OL shoes though.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
Doesnt matter. Whatever you want.
Jason[/quote]
Perhaps…If you are competitive, you should train in the shoes you will compete it.
[/quote]
I compete. Still doesn’t matter. I’m going to wear my vibrams at the meet in April just to prove it.
Jason[/quote]
And you train in your VFFs regularly…just like I said.
[/quote]
And my flip flops, and my work boots, and some old running shoes, and some OL shoes, and some METAL shoes. You’re looking too deep here. Just like I said, Its not important. Of all the training variables you can control, shoes are on par with which knee you wrap first and what color your belt is, as far as importance.
Jason
[/quote]
Well, I know who you are but I still have to say that this just isn’t true at all. No one should ever be squatting in running shoes. It took me time to adjust to different shoes when I started using my wrestling shoes for a while. I eventually went back to converse because I was more comfortable squatting in them. Maybe you should be saying that the shoes you wear while squatting doesn’t matter for you, but you can’t just make blanket statements like that and say that they apply to anyone who squats.
When I was first learning to squat years ago, I used running shoes and eventually plateaud. I kept ending up leaning forward out of the hole, with my heels up and knees going in whenever the weight got heavy. I tried to adjust my technique but the problems stayed. As soon as I got the advice to switch to converse, all of those problems went away and I was able to make continued progress on my squats. [/quote]
US,
So every college and professional athlete, and by extension, their strength coaches, are wrong for squatting in tennis shoes? Come on man. Don’t tell me that I can’t make blanket statements and then bust one out. Granted, there are some athletes taht probably do squat in OL or flat soled shoes, but 99% of them are wearing whatever was closest to the door. Also, Heels coming off of the ground and your knees caving isn’t an issue with your technique, either. Its a lack of mobility in the ankle, and weak glutes. All of that being said, I’m not talking down to you, or your opinion, but in my experiences, as a trainer, and coach, they don’t matter.
This is Chad Smith squatting 635x10 in some busted ass Nike Frees. Tennis shoes.
Jason
I’ve learned never to base what I do off of what professional and/or college athletes do. The majority of the time, those athletes get there despite their training, not because of it.
I don’t see how it would be a mobility issue because when I switched to converse, the problem went away. That, and I have no mobility problems and never have, and I’ve always worked hard on hamstring and glute strength. From the time I started squatting, I was already doing tons of GHR’s, RDL’s good mornings, SLDL’s, sumo SLDL’s, etc.
Anyway, Dave Tate seems to have expressed a different opinion in these articles.
“This is also why most squat shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers suck for squatting. The best shoes for squatting are Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. The soles are flat and the side construction is rugged enough to push out against without a blowout or rolling over the sole.”
“By the way, the best shoes to wear while squatting are the old school Converse Chuck Taylors. They’re built with a flat bottom and strong canvas sides. Most other tennis shoes will cause your foot to move around too much or you’ll push out over the side of the shoes.”
Just want to say before you respond, I’m not trying to be rude or anything so sorry if I’m coming off that way. I definetely value your input a lot. I’ve just never heard anyone say the shoes you squat in don’t matter before.
I go barefoot at home. I now use vibrams in the gym cause it’s about the same as barefoot.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I go barefoot at home. I now use vibrams in the gym cause it’s about the same as barefoot.[/quote]
I use vibrams too. You’ve never had any issues with durability while squatting have you? I know vibram claims they’re of sturdy construction… but they do look a little flimsy… It’s just I can feel my toes and side of my foot pushing out on the side of the shoe and I’m hoping it’s not wearing them down any faster.
I have to use a low-no heel shoe or my knees start acting up. I need a hard sole or my posterior hip capsule starts giving me crap.
If you,ve ever watched a lifter’s feet, who uses ‘squishy’ running shoes, squatting then you’ll know there’s an awful lot of unwanted movent going on.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I go barefoot at home. I now use vibrams in the gym cause it’s about the same as barefoot.[/quote]
I use vibrams too. You’ve never had any issues with durability while squatting have you? I know vibram claims they’re of sturdy construction… but they do look a little flimsy… It’s just I can feel my toes and side of my foot pushing out on the side of the shoe and I’m hoping it’s not wearing them down any faster.
I have to use a low-no heel shoe or my knees start acting up. I need a hard sole or my posterior hip capsule starts giving me crap. [/quote]
I thought vibrams would give me a problem with squats and deads but they havent. They dont move around as I thought they would. Pretty solid
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I’ve learned never to base what I do off of what professional and/or college athletes do. The majority of the time, those athletes get there despite their training, not because of it.
I don’t see how it would be a mobility issue because when I switched to converse, the problem went away. That, and I have no mobility problems and never have, and I’ve always worked hard on hamstring and glute strength. From the time I started squatting, I was already doing tons of GHR’s, RDL’s good mornings, SLDL’s, sumo SLDL’s, etc.
Anyway, Dave Tate seems to have expressed a different opinion in these articles.
“This is also why most squat shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers suck for squatting. The best shoes for squatting are Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. The soles are flat and the side construction is rugged enough to push out against without a blowout or rolling over the sole.”
“By the way, the best shoes to wear while squatting are the old school Converse Chuck Taylors. They’re built with a flat bottom and strong canvas sides. Most other tennis shoes will cause your foot to move around too much or you’ll push out over the side of the shoes.”
[/quote]
You dont base anything off of what professional athletes do but you base what shoes to wear off of what some fucking nerd in a labcoat says? The reason people started squatting in chucks is because it was proven in a ball state research study at their sports science lab that they were best for squatting. I am not sure if Matt Wenning was still there when they did this, but it was still some college profressor that started all of this. Also, the same research journal that published this study also said squatting doesnt involve hip extension. Maybe because of shoes?
Those articles you refernced are talking about guys who squat well over 900lbs out of a monolift. Until you get to that level, I really dont think shoes fucking matter.
Chucks are nice to squat in. So are vibrams, olympic shoes, tennis shoes, just about anything works just fine for everyone. I find it very hard to believe that progress stalled because of the shoes you were wearing. I also find it hard to believe that you are the only person on earth without mobility problems.
Never heard of vibrams before… Have not seen them anywhere in my country. They look pretty cool… Are they thick enough to wear outdoors safely? As for converse I have a pair and have never used them to squat before! Will give it a try tomorrow. I remember my brother bought a pair of shoes made especially for Weight Lifting… I think they are called ROOTS or something. They have velcro straps and look pretty pro (not that that means much).
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I’ve learned never to base what I do off of what professional and/or college athletes do. The majority of the time, those athletes get there despite their training, not because of it.
I don’t see how it would be a mobility issue because when I switched to converse, the problem went away. That, and I have no mobility problems and never have, and I’ve always worked hard on hamstring and glute strength. From the time I started squatting, I was already doing tons of GHR’s, RDL’s good mornings, SLDL’s, sumo SLDL’s, etc.
Anyway, Dave Tate seems to have expressed a different opinion in these articles.
“This is also why most squat shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers suck for squatting. The best shoes for squatting are Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. The soles are flat and the side construction is rugged enough to push out against without a blowout or rolling over the sole.”
“By the way, the best shoes to wear while squatting are the old school Converse Chuck Taylors. They’re built with a flat bottom and strong canvas sides. Most other tennis shoes will cause your foot to move around too much or you’ll push out over the side of the shoes.”
[/quote]
You dont base anything off of what professional athletes do but you base what shoes to wear off of what some fucking nerd in a labcoat says? The reason people started squatting in chucks is because it was proven in a ball state research study at their sports science lab that they were best for squatting. I am not sure if Matt Wenning was still there when they did this, but it was still some college profressor that started all of this. Also, the same research journal that published this study also said squatting doesnt involve hip extension. Maybe because of shoes?
Those articles you refernced are talking about guys who squat well over 900lbs out of a monolift. Until you get to that level, I really dont think shoes fucking matter.
Chucks are nice to squat in. So are vibrams, olympic shoes, tennis shoes, just about anything works just fine for everyone. I find it very hard to believe that progress stalled because of the shoes you were wearing. I also find it hard to believe that you are the only person on earth without mobility problems. [/quote]
Agreed. I squatted once this week in wrestling shoes and once in tennis shoes, and the tennis shoes were better; depth was easier to hit and it felt more natural, so I’m going to use those despite what a peer-reviewed study tells me. So to echo STB, just pick one and you’ll be fine. Worrying incessantly about the shoe you are wearing is a sure way to make no progress.
I’m a skinny newb but I really like the Virbams a lot for lifting.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I’ve learned never to base what I do off of what professional and/or college athletes do. The majority of the time, those athletes get there despite their training, not because of it.
I don’t see how it would be a mobility issue because when I switched to converse, the problem went away. That, and I have no mobility problems and never have, and I’ve always worked hard on hamstring and glute strength. From the time I started squatting, I was already doing tons of GHR’s, RDL’s good mornings, SLDL’s, sumo SLDL’s, etc.
Anyway, Dave Tate seems to have expressed a different opinion in these articles.
“This is also why most squat shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers suck for squatting. The best shoes for squatting are Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. The soles are flat and the side construction is rugged enough to push out against without a blowout or rolling over the sole.”
“By the way, the best shoes to wear while squatting are the old school Converse Chuck Taylors. They’re built with a flat bottom and strong canvas sides. Most other tennis shoes will cause your foot to move around too much or you’ll push out over the side of the shoes.”
[/quote]
You dont base anything off of what professional athletes do but you base what shoes to wear off of what some fucking nerd in a labcoat says? The reason people started squatting in chucks is because it was proven in a ball state research study at their sports science lab that they were best for squatting. I am not sure if Matt Wenning was still there when they did this, but it was still some college profressor that started all of this. Also, the same research journal that published this study also said squatting doesnt involve hip extension. Maybe because of shoes?
Those articles you refernced are talking about guys who squat well over 900lbs out of a monolift. Until you get to that level, I really dont think shoes fucking matter.
Chucks are nice to squat in. So are vibrams, olympic shoes, tennis shoes, just about anything works just fine for everyone. I find it very hard to believe that progress stalled because of the shoes you were wearing. I also find it hard to believe that you are the only person on earth without mobility problems. [/quote]
The BSU study you’re talking about is what Matt did for his Masters thesis at BSU.
Jason
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I’ve learned never to base what I do off of what professional and/or college athletes do. The majority of the time, those athletes get there despite their training, not because of it.
I don’t see how it would be a mobility issue because when I switched to converse, the problem went away. That, and I have no mobility problems and never have, and I’ve always worked hard on hamstring and glute strength. From the time I started squatting, I was already doing tons of GHR’s, RDL’s good mornings, SLDL’s, sumo SLDL’s, etc.
Anyway, Dave Tate seems to have expressed a different opinion in these articles.
“This is also why most squat shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers suck for squatting. The best shoes for squatting are Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars. The soles are flat and the side construction is rugged enough to push out against without a blowout or rolling over the sole.”
“By the way, the best shoes to wear while squatting are the old school Converse Chuck Taylors. They’re built with a flat bottom and strong canvas sides. Most other tennis shoes will cause your foot to move around too much or you’ll push out over the side of the shoes.”
[/quote]
You dont base anything off of what professional athletes do but you base what shoes to wear off of what some fucking nerd in a labcoat says? The reason people started squatting in chucks is because it was proven in a ball state research study at their sports science lab that they were best for squatting. I am not sure if Matt Wenning was still there when they did this, but it was still some college profressor that started all of this. Also, the same research journal that published this study also said squatting doesnt involve hip extension. Maybe because of shoes?
Those articles you refernced are talking about guys who squat well over 900lbs out of a monolift. Until you get to that level, I really dont think shoes fucking matter.
Chucks are nice to squat in. So are vibrams, olympic shoes, tennis shoes, just about anything works just fine for everyone. I find it very hard to believe that progress stalled because of the shoes you were wearing. I also find it hard to believe that you are the only person on earth without mobility problems. [/quote]
When I referred to professional athletes, I was mainly referring to athletes like football players who go through their entire career training under coaches who don’t know anything about lifting/training properly. Those athletes get to the top despite their training, not because of it.
Also, what the fuck are you talking about? I never referenced any “nerd in a labcoat” study. I posted quotes from Dave Tate who gave an opinion on shoes to wear while squatting. Long before I knew who Tate was, I made the switch to converse because of how terrible running shoes are for squatting. I don’t need a study or someone in a labcoat to tell me that only an idiot would choose running shoes to squat in over converse, it’s common fucking sense.
I don’t need to be squatting 900 lbs for the shoes to matter, plateaus happen long before then big guy. The shoes I wore made a huge difference when I first started years ago and was squatting 135, and that fact won’t change.
I started out in running shoes just like pretty much everyone. Got some Vibrams and used those, then got some Chuck’s which I hated, they are way too narrow for my toes. For christmas I got some Pendlay 2010s in bright red, and I’m pissed I didn’t buy Oly shoes sooner. Instant noticeable difference. Honestly though I believe everyone is different, use what you like.