I doubt he cut out 90lbs of muscle it was probably a lot of fat , im not familiar with that guy. But taking 90lbs off you at that weight when your not as lean as say eric lillibridge will increase your pull.
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Being fat can give bigger squat and bench poundages.
Maybe not as much if the extra weight were muscle.
It can mean shortening your bench stroke.
With squat, having a wider belly means a wider base of support and more stability.
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My dad let me roll off the table when I was a baby.
I am equally impressed with anyone of any size who can lift huge weights, but I wish I was āstronger per poundā because I really do need to lose weight.
I squat and bench more when Iām fat. If I have any vascularity on meet day I know I fucked up some where lol ā¦ All I can add to this.
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One could also easily say those who feel passionate about strength not depending on body weight are fat and weak.
In reality, nobody can argue that strength and body weight are linearly related. Up to a certain weight, probably the mid-to-low 200ās, weight gain can be limited to useful muscle. Past a certain point, any further weight gain is disproportionately body fat and will have a minimal impact on the amount of weight lifted.
So, someone whoās 150 lbs deadlifting 450 (3x bodyweight) will be very, very low body fat and have almost no wasted mass. Someone whoās 300 lbs can not be expected to extrapolate this to a 900 lb deadlift because much of the additional mass is going to be fat.
They donāt have to be. No one has to have any sort of body to deadlift. They just have to pick the weight up.
More of the point I was getting to was the idea that lighter lifters with higher pound for pound totals are superior to larger lifters with higher overall totals. This to me is false.
I think this just depends on your goals and outlook, and I see things the opposite. If your only goal is to lift as much as you possibly can, all else be damned, then youāre willing to let your weight skyrocket for gains. Personally, Iām not impressed with big, chubby dudes lifting heavy weights. And, in my experience, most people who say ābody weight doesnāt matterā with lifts are doing so to justify their obesity.
Body weight doesnāt matter in my opinion. Biggest weight lifted wins. Have always thought this and always will. This is coming from someone who even if I was obese and chubby Iād still be a light 242 lol.
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Different strokes for different folks. Although itās not like Iām saying everyone who lifts should be 300+ to maximize their totals.
I just think something like my sarcastic remark above (about me being a better powerlifter than someone like Eric Lillibridge because p4p my total ratio might be slightly higher) is blatantly false and quite silly.
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Thatās cool. We all have different approaches and goals, and itās what makes these discussions interesting.
Agreed. That said, Iād still rather be able to lift 3x my bodyweight at a lower weight (Iām at more like 2.4X on deadlift, and see no scenario of me getting to your ratio).
I donāt really understand the calculation, but I have heard that Wilks actually favors both the lower weight classes as well as the heavier ones, somehow people in the middle are getting screwed. At 2016 IPF raw worlds the top three lifters based on Wilks were Sergey Fedosienko (59kg - 584.74), Dennis Cornelius (120kg - 563.71), and Ray Williams (120+kg - 559.15). When you check it out, Sergey weighs less than 1/3 of Ray but squats half as much, thatās pretty fucking crazy.
I think it is cool that lifting considers this. There is no weight class in speed sports. Seeing who the fastest 300+ pounder is in the 200m would be awesome!
(I know some marathons have a weight division, but it isnāt widespread.)
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Wilks is biased towards the strong.
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I always find it funny how we try to compare strength. Strong is strong no matter what the body weight. How can we really compare one lifter to another in a different weight class? There are just too many variables in body composition to make that comparison.
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I think weāre comparing apples and oranges here. I also think āimpressiveā is a rather shallow way to judge things. A 630 pound deadlift, for example, is great regardless of how big the guy is, although at the bigger, fatter, end of things we end up in the territory of diminishing returns as people put on more and more weight for smaller and smaller strength gains. Personally, Iām a bigger person but relative strength is still important to me so I do a lot of pushups and pullups (Also, pushups situps and burpees loom large in my karate schoolās curriculum and I have no wish to embarass myself in the dojo). The point being: different strokes for different folks. Developing limit strength is great for people who are interested in āpound for poundā strength, as has been shown in that experiment on military training on startingstrength.com.
I canāt remember where I heard it from but āThere are no weight classes in the jungle.ā Then again, pretty sure āconditioningā is pretty prevelant in the jungle.
True enough, but if youāre so fat you need a respirator to breathe, as one very strong powerlifter is, youāre unlikely to last long in the jungle. Thatās not a criticism of powerlifting- there are plenty of really strong powerlifters that are also ripped. strength IMO has a knock-on effect on conditioning when itās pursued within reasonable limits. Wasnāt there a Greek temple inscribed with the words ānothing in excessā?
Why does it matter what the guy looks like? Powerlifting is a competition to lift the most weight, not a beauty pageant. Being fat for the sake of strength isnāt good for your health and wonāt help you pick up girls either, but it all depends on what your priorities are. Also, I mentioned in another thread that some lifters and strongman competitors actually cut in the offseason and bulk up for a meet. Matt Wenning is fairly lean in the offseason, he only bulks up to 308 because he can lift more at that weight.
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Look at Mike Tuchscherer a few years back, he was lean (maybe less than 15%bf) at 120kg and one of the top lifters in his weight class. But still, Dennis Cornelius is the same weight but fatter and stronger than Mike T ever was. Kirill Sarychev is close to 400lbs. and doesnāt look fat either, he just looks like a giant.
Thereās a reason why powerlifting uses wilks rather than multiples of bodyweight, and your argument is a perfect example.