the flavoring idea sounds good let me know how it goes… i dumped some of the terrible kaizen hydrosolate in my shake tonite (orange flavored from protein factory) and didnt notice it… I DID look in a med. book and under carbohydrates it refers to blood sugar glucose as Dextrose thus i am pretty sure they are the same thing.
Okay, I’m gonna bring something else up. What about adding an insulin mimicker to the mix like alpha lipoic acid, particularly since we don’t have the exact amounts on everything yet? Maybe for now this would make the exact amounts a little less critical, and maybe this was something that was originally included since Tim said they had to “tone down” the original formula. Any thoughts on this?
if you are going to use proteinfactory then why not jack up the mix with Aminogen, Glutamine Peptides and the Bovine Serum?
Next week’s article talks about some insulin secretagogues that could be added. You’re right that we originally played with the idea of including them but, as Tim said, we had to exclude them for several reasons. I wouldnt use ALA (mechanism of action isnt ideal) but something like the extract (4 hydroxyisoleucine) from fenugreek seeds or the alcoholic extract from gymnema sylvestre called G3 or G4. Dont use whole gymnema though because it inhibits glucose absorption in the gut. The alcoholic extract increases insulin release without inhibiting glucose absorption. Oh yea, and BTW, here is some advice if you happen to use 50% glucose, 50% maltodextrin, the right amount of hydrolysate, the correct amount of BCAA, enough glutamine, and also happen to stumble into the right ratio of amino acids…then add the gymnema or fenugreed extracts; Make sure about 30 minutes later you dial a 9…then a 1…then let your finger hover over that 1 a second time…just in case 
Oh yeah, and I cant stress enough the fact that you need to keep the protein relatively "low". Too much protein gets glucagon kicking up and impairs insulin action. It also converts aminos to glucose...that's bad since you want the aminos to get to the muscle as aminos not as glucose!
DMan, if you have a little spare time, what does your med book say is the difference between dextrose and maltodextrin? They are both 100 or greater on the glycemic index, so is it just a chemical structural difference? Also, my brief research has shown that maltodextrin is a long-term provider of energy (actually acts as a complex carb), whereas dextrose is very quickly used in the body. So, assuming this is true, does the timing of Tim’s “reaction” at 40 minutes indicate that a higher ratio of maltodextrin to dextrose exists (rather than a 1:1)?
well…it seems taht no one has had the guts to try this stuff out yet, or at least, no one is willingto admit it! well i will be the first to report what ive tried…
my ingredients werent of the highest possible grade but i felt them to be sufficient…
i did the sugar and protein as prescribed
then tried the aminos at and second try
leucine 1.5 grams 4.5
isoleucine 1 gram 3
valine 1.5 grams 4.5
glutamine 5 grams 10
the first time i noticed my vision started to blurr a little around 25-40 minutes and i got noticably hotter and my face turned pale.
the second higher dose caused the same effects with the added requirement of having to lay down cause i got fairly dizzy…im going to to out and buy each ingredient individually to ensure high grade because for now ive had to make due with what i could find at my local stores…ive already ordered the hydrosylate and individual aminos from where i shop…ill keep you posted
ok…the numbers look messed, but it looked ok when i typed it
there are numbers before and after the word grams for each amino, just in case you couldnt figure it out, the first number is trial nubmer one, and the second is trial number two
one thing i forgot to mention:
i did not break out into a sweat like tim reported and i didnt notice any kind of crazy pump…my my trials i only got:
light headed
impaired vision
torso heating. So ive only made it to his pre black out phase gimmie a week though and im sure ill have it…
Steve-0…thanks for the update, pal. I don’t know ‘bout the other guys but I don’t have the resources at my disposal yet. Sounds like ya got somethin’ cookin’ in the kitchen, though. Do you have the BCAAs individually or did you just triple the dosage? Are you using L-Glutamine as prescribed or peptides as mentioned below? One more…do you think bodyweight has anything to do with amount of aminos or just ratios? Keep us posted, Steve-O…you’re a friggin’ Mad Scientist!!!
I have to say that I just read the articles and I literally dropped my jaw. I’ve been using almost the exact post-workout drink for over a year now. I kept it secret from most people because of the quality gains I made off of it in such a short period of time. My original formulation had a 5/45/50 mix of Super Bovine Serum, Hydro 520, and CFM Whey Isolate respectively from Protein Factory. I mixed in 30g of Glutamine, 15g of Creatine, 5-10g of Ribose, 75g of Maltodextrin, 75g of Dextrose, and 100g of the protein (equals 80g of actual protein). In two weeks I gained 12lbs of lean weight without altering anything else. Of course I did ditch the maltodextrin/dextrose mix and used in place of a few meals as well. Jeremy, maltodextrin is a polymer of dextrose with a chain about 7-12 long. The body readily absorbs dextrose for blood sugar while maltodextrin must be broken down first to be used. While the rate is slow the products have the same effect on insulin.
How about some glibencamide right after training, before the post-workout drink?
Ive been using bcaa blend and ya, i tripled the dose…i am using pure l-glutamine though, not peptides…i discovered an article this morning about a similar study being done on post workout supps, except they used carbs, protein, and leucine and phenylalanine.and saw some pretty good insulin spikes…as for me, im not happy with my cocktail yet…ive ordered the straight hydrosylate whey, and the individual aminos…and im off today to buy higher grade sugar…im gonna try my doses again with the high grade stuff and see if that helps…talk to you soon
john u…your mix sounds pretty crazy, but the ratios are way way off what tim has mentioned…im not saying that it didnt work cause obviously it did (12 lbs!!)…but what kind of gains were they? water? lean mass, fat? and more so, what were side effects experienced if any after taking this cocktail?
one thing i noticed…read the article by tim again…he mentions that "I was using insulin, glucose, and certain amino acids " …tim im confused…do you mean you were using insulin literally? cause you go on to mention that you were the first person to get these effects without injectable insulin…i can only assume tim meant he was using the products to create an insulin spike…any one else notice this?
Steve-0…I noticed the same thing regarding insulin when I first read the article. When I thought about the bad-ace things Tim was experiencing after the cocktail, I thought for sure he was referring to an injectable substance. But he clearly states that maltodextrin and glucose can be used for the spike. It just beats the hell outta me how you can experience those symptoms from straight-up macronutrients and some aminos! Well, I’m going to keep researching. Keep us updated, Steve-O.
John...sounds awesome! 12 pounds...that I would kill for--if of course it was lean mass, as Steve mentioned. Do you still use that concoction? That's one massive bad-boy!
ok guys…my whey is in, and ive got the missing links (ie. high grade sugars)…and while i was out, i couldnt help but remember to look for fenugreek seed extract :)…lo and behold i found some…ill post what this stuff does to me tomorrow, but if you dont hear from me then you know why
peace out from the “mad scientist”
ok… so when is this stuff coming out? Should I wait to get this stuff or should I just get Grow! for post workout??? This sounds so cool!
Actually, steve, it appears that John U’s ratio is pretty close, unless I’m interpreting his post incorrectly. He said he put 80 grams of useable protein (Protein Factory accurately explains that some of the 100 grams of powder is ash, fat, etc.) with 150 grams of carbs. 47% protein/53% carbs is pretty close! John U, that’s a LOT of glutamine and creatine! Did you notice any intestinal problems? Also, as steve and Timbo asked…was it primarily muscular weight gain? What were the changes in your strength levels?
The amino acids found in the article can be found at Kilosports, the only problem is that they only sell the powdered forms and they only sell them in kilo amounts (thus the name), which is 2.2lbs. All of the more exotic amino’s Leucine, Isolucine, Valanine, are around 100$ for 2.2lbs, a little less, but when you compare the price in the long run you are saving quite a bit of money!! Example, they also have alpha lipoic acid in capsules (rare, since most of their products are just in powdered form), 1000/100mg caps for 69.99, if you do the math that is about 1/3 the price of alpha lipoic acid anywhere else, and all products have lab assays with them and they also provide samples for independent lab tests so they are legit. I’m going to order some soon to start my own experiment!!! Hope this helps you bro’s out!!!
Yes, I did consume more protein than Tim or John recommends but I used CFM Whey Isolate as my source of BCAA’s. It’s much cheaper this way. The effects of the amino acid combination, hydrolyzed whey, and carbohydrates have are drug-like. This is not too far fetched considering amino acids are used in pharmaceuticals. I do experience an increase in body temperature, sweating, light-headedness, and nausea after consuming it. I tolerate the high levels of glutamine and creatine very well and have not had any problems. I also adjusted my diet for a slightly higher caloric intake. As expected, I gained weight, most of which was muscle. I could visibly see the difference in the first week. My strength levels also shot up as well as my recovery. I naturally have great recovery ability, I normally train six days a week, and strength to weight ratio so this was a pleasant surprise. By the way, this is the most awful tasting substance on earth I guarantee you. I puked up the first 2-3 times I used it. Try using a banana flavoring or strong orange flavoring to mask it. It helps, but not much.